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Tyne and Wear Metro inter availability

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BlueFox

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A few years ago I asked a question about using rail tickets on the Metro between Newcastle and Sunderland - and the possibility of stopping short at a Metro station.
The original thread was here: https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/tyne-and-wear-metro-on-a-rail-ticket.94733/

I didn't get a definitive answer in that thread, and I contacted Nexus, who told me to ask Northern, but by then I'd already made my journey so I didn't bother.

Does anyone know of any published information about the inter-availability of train/metro tickets? What does the IKB say?
 
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Wallsendmag

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Any ticket valid on the train is valid on the metro and vice versa, the only exception is that Nexus products are not valid on the two VTEC services as Nexus didn't want them to be valid for some reason.
 

ainsworth74

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As far as I am aware IKB doesn't mention any restrictions and just has words to the effect 'any Metro ticket valid between Newcastle and Sunderland is also valid on National Rail between Newcastle and a Sunderland and vice versa'.
 

crehld

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As far as I am aware IKB doesn't mention any restrictions and just has words to the effect 'any Metro ticket valid between Newcastle and Sunderland is also valid on National Rail between Newcastle and a Sunderland and vice versa'.

The precise wording I believe is:

"Any rail ticket or Metro ticket with a validity between Newcastle Central Station and Sunderland can be used on either Rail or Metro services operating between these locations"

This is further supported by the Nexus website, which unambiguously states that Metro DaySavers and Metro Singles are valid on rail services between Newcastle and Sunderland. There is no stated operator restriction. Furthermore the Nexus product terms of use again states validity of DaySaver tickets on rail services between Newcastle and Sunderland, and again does not state an operator restriction.

After a rather long trawl through various relevant websites and operators' terms and conditions I can find no restriction preventing the aforementioned tickets advertised as being valid on rail services between Newcastle and Sunderland not being valid on rail services between Newcastle and Sunderland which are operated by VTEC. It would help immensely if those certain that there is some (seemingly non-existent) operator restriction, could perhaps link to the relevant publicly available terms and conditions where such a restriction is unambiguously stated, but which I have hitherto been unable to find.
 

yorkie

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Any ticket valid on the train is valid on the metro and vice versa, the only exception is that Nexus products are not valid on the two VTEC services as Nexus didn't want them to be valid for some reason.
This is incorrect. NEXUS are in no position to dictate to another operator that they should not accept any particular tickets; do you have a source to say they actually said this?

Maybe but it is wrong
No. VTEC must adhere to this, whether they want to or not. The company cannot simply make up its own rules.

The DfT stipulated that the franchise would be required to run a train to/from Sunderland; if Virgin/Stagecoach did not want to accept the implications of this, they should not have bid for the franchise!

If VTEC are trying to get out of their franchise commitments, disregarding the rail industry's internal KnowledgeBase, refusing to adhere to the Ticketing Settlement Agreement, or failing to comply with consumer law, this is a serious matter.
 
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IanXC

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The DfT stipulated that the franchise would be required to run a train to/from Sunderland; if Virgin/Stagecoach did not want to accept the implications of this, they should not have bid for the franchise!

Or run it via an alternative route!
 

Tetchytyke

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Any ticket valid on the train is valid on the metro and vice versa, the only exception is that Nexus products are not valid on the two VTEC services as Nexus didn't want them to be valid for some reason.

Could you point us to where this restriction is? It's not on any public website I can find.

VTEC aren't just making stuff up again are they?
 

Tetchytyke

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cuccir

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Nexus clearly are only thinking of Northern services when they mention Newcastle-Sunderland rail services. Whether this is deliberate (as Wallsendmag suggests) or they've simply not updated their material is somewhat moot.

The original post on this thread asks about breaking a journey on the metro when using a rail ticket. There's no published guidance on this but common sense would think that it is allowed. The National Rail Conditions of Travel just says "you may start, or break and resume, a journey (in either direction in the case of a return Ticket) at any intermediate station" and doesn't define 'station' - so we can presume the widest reasonable meaning of the word, which would I think include Metro stations en route.

Re: VTEC, the question really is whether their advertising and terms of conditions allow you to use a Metro ticket Sunderland-Newcastle on VTEC. Nexus' Product terms of use states that tickets are valid on 'local' rail services and publicity only mentions Northern Rail (with the exception of 'Transfare tickets' which are defined as valid on 'National Rail' in the broader Metro Conditions of Carriage). So it probably hinges on your interpretation of that word 'local' but what it doesn't do anywhere is say that they're not valid on VTEC. I would guess that in the unlikely event that VTEC tried to prosecute someone holding a Metro ticket for not having a valid ticket, it's probably not sufficienttly clear for such a prosecution to succeed.
 

Tetchytyke

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As for the OP, a Metro single is only valid for one continuous journey within 90 minutes of issue. The rail ticket- priced the same- doesn't have those restrictions.

My hunch is that a similar attitude will be taken by Metro as by London Underground for cross-London tickets, i.e. you can break a journey at an intermediate Metro station but not resume it. But it's not written down anywhere.
 

yorkie

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No we were willing to accept the tickets.
So why aren't you now?

I am aware of one Guard (no prizes for guessing who) charging someone, who did get their money back, thus wasting time for everyone involved.
 

bb21

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Knowledgebase has the following to say:

iKB; Passenger Transport Executive Areas; Nexus (Tyne & Wear) PTE area said:
Interchangeable Ticketing

Any rail ticket or Metro ticket with a validity between Newcastle Central Station and Sunderland can be used on either Rail or Metro services operating between these locations.

VTEC need to update documentation accordingly if they wish to refuse otherwise valid tickets as they can be incorrectly sold on the basis of information contained in the Knowledgebase.
 

cuccir

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VTEC need to update documentation accordingly if they wish to refuse otherwise valid tickets

Although the implication of what Wallsendmag says is that it was Nexus who didn't want them to be valid for some reason
 

yorkie

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VTEC need to update documentation accordingly if they wish to refuse otherwise valid tickets as they can be incorrectly sold on the basis of information contained in the Knowledgebase.
I think you mean:

VTEC need to update their documentation accordingly if they don't wish to refuse valid tickets which are correctly sold on the basis of information contained in the Knowledgebase.​

I am confident VTEC will do this very shortly.
 

crehld

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By way of a quick update, I was in Newcastle last week for work and, as I had some spare time, I enquired with station staff if I could use a paper metro ticket on the 2300 service to Sunderland. They were more than happy to confirm it was permitted on any rail service, provided the ticket covered the necessary zones.
 
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