Tyne and Wear Metro

[ModernRailways]

Try seeing it from a different point of view. The SOS button is there for a reason, i.e. in case someone genuinely needs help. Imagine having to go back and check every time one of these goes off. It is much like the bell to stop a bus. I must have been on hundreds of buses where the bell is pressed countless times by a young kid whilst the parent sits there and does nothing. It is a two way situation so people should keep better control over their children, to stop it from happening constantly.

Regarding announcements, do you really need to know the reason for every single delay? I've heard people muttering about the train going slow from Ilford Road to South Gosforth - if they looked through the front window, they would quickly realise that there is already a train at South Gosforth and therefore that one needs to clear the platform before another train can enter. Again, this happens countless times on the system everyday especially during the peaks with the short services running. In any case, most people take very little notice of the announcements, which is evident when there is engineering work on and services do not run to the normal destination.

Two way game. Not everyone plays it. That is life.

But the parent did tell the child not to do it and pulled him away. The same thing happens in lifts with the alarm buttons. A parent can't exactly predict that their child is going to do it, and they can't stop it until it's too late. If the parent had of let the child do it and not said anything - the kid did get shouted out - then I wouldn't have cared, but the way the driver spoke to the parent was unnecessary.

Yes. Why is it so hard for a driver to just pick up the announcement phone and say 'Sorry for the slight delay. There is a train ahead which is occupying the platform at South Gosforth, once that has cleared the platform we will move up.' Just because some people don't take notice of announcements doesn't mean they shouldn't be done. Also, what about those at the rear of the train who can't see through the train and don't know what's happening.

On London Underground an announcement must be made if a train is held for more than 30 seconds. Most drivers though make the announcement immediately. Why can't Metro drivers do the same? A lot of drivers just seem incapable of human interaction and lack any sort of customer service skills.

 

[Nym]

On London Underground an announcement must be made if a train is held for more than 30 seconds. Most drivers though make the announcement immediately. Why can't Metro drivers do the same? A lot of drivers just seem incapable of human interaction and lack any sort of customer service skills.

LUL does get some rather intresting announcements sometimes...

There was someone on the Victoria Line announcing all the connections at each staton and doing things like, "We're now cruising at minus 100 feet and at around 50mph, welcome abord this service to Walthamstow, calling at.... "

Was rather a laugh.

 

[142094]

How do you know if it is a delay though? Unless someone has access to the running boards, which are not available to the public from the Metro system itself (Sunderland line excepted which is online), then you cannot be sure it is a delay. The dwell times at stations can be markedly different, and the way the timetable is set up means that some trains have to wait at stations for a long period of time than is necessary to allow passengers on and off, and the doors to close. Remember that a Metro can be three minutes late and still classed as on time.

I'd very much expect any regular commuter to recognise that there are certain stations where a train might be held. Perfect example I used is Ilford Road. Pelaw, Regent Centre and Monkseaton are the others. I know for a fact that if I am on a train near to one of these stations during the morning or evening peak then any sort of hold up is due to a short service. If a driver had to announce this every time it happened, then they would be on the PA on just about every trip. Regular announcements like this also diminish announcements where there might be a genuine reason for a delay such as a train failure.

 

[ModernRailways]

How do you know if it is a delay though? Unless someone has access to the running boards, which are not available to the public from the Metro system itself (Sunderland line excepted which is online), then you cannot be sure it is a delay. The dwell times at stations can be markedly different, and the way the timetable is set up means that some trains have to wait at stations for a long period of time than is necessary to allow passengers on and off, and the doors to close. Remember that a Metro can be three minutes late and still classed as on time.

I'd very much expect any regular commuter to recognise that there are certain stations where a train might be held. Perfect example I used is Ilford Road. Pelaw, Regent Centre and Monkseaton are the others. I know for a fact that if I am on a train near to one of these stations during the morning or evening peak then any sort of hold up is due to a short service. If a driver had to announce this every time it happened, then they would be on the PA on just about every trip. Regular announcements like this also diminish announcements where there might be a genuine reason for a delay such as a train failure.

There wouldn't be a delay, but the announcement would say delay because it would be easier. Instead you could have 'Sorry for the slow running we are just being held at a red signal as there is a train in the section up ahead.'

To a passenger being held or having slow running must mean a delay so I don't see why the word 'delay' can't be used.

How would they diminish them? If there is an announcement by the driver people will listen. People blank the auto announcements because they are the same tone and so are easier to not hear once you are used to them. And as you say, people who don't listen will continue not to listen, those that do listen will continue to listen.

 

[Nym]

Exactly; you'll find LUL will tend to say, "Waiting for scheduled departure" or "Holding to even out gaps in service"

 

[blue sabre]

On London Underground an announcement must be made if a train is held for more than 30 seconds. Most drivers though make the announcement immediately. Why can't Metro drivers do the same? A lot of drivers just seem incapable of human interaction and lack any sort of customer service skills.

London underground is a different kettle of fish entirely though. A lot more people will be anxious of being stopped in a dark tunnel many meters below the surface, whereas on Metro most of the places you'll be held are in the open air.
If a delay means I'm going to get to my destination later than planned then I'm interested, otherwise I'd rather the driver was left alone to actually drive the thing.
Imagine the confusion of being told 4 or 5 times on a journey that you are 'delayed' only for you then to arrive at your destination on time.
We are already bombarded with announcements about escalators and doors. Please just let me travel to work in peace!

 

[ModernRailways]

London underground is a different kettle of fish entirely though. A lot more people will be anxious of being stopped in a dark tunnel many meters below the surface, whereas on Metro most of the places you'll be held are in the open air.
If a delay means I'm going to get to my destination later than planned then I'm interested, otherwise I'd rather the driver was left alone to actually drive the thing.
Imagine the confusion of being told 4 or 5 times on a journey that you are 'delayed' only for you then to arrive at your destination on time.
We are already bombarded with announcements about escalators and doors. Please just let me travel to work in peace!

The Underground isn't. The Metropolitan Line - only underground from Finchley Road to Aldgate - makes announcements whenever the train is stopped for longer than it should be somewhere or if it stops at a red signal. That is no different to Metro.
If you were stopped 4 or 5 times then yes you would be delayed. The timetable doesn't allow for extra stoppages so unless the train is early it would become delayed and late if it was held up. The problem with minor (or major) delays right now is the lack of information. I've noticed lately, there has been no announcement, just the display board saying 'Delays to Service. Metro Apoligise.'


Also, some news from Nexus that bicycles will be allowed on Metro in January in a trial scheme.

 

[Tetchytyke]

London Underground drivers must do an announcement- underground and above ground- within 30 seconds and drivers are disciplined if they do not do it. It is excellent customer service and other metro operators should take note. It doesn't "diminish" anything. Announcing that a train is held at a red signal because of a preceding train, or announcing that a driver change is about to take place, should be basic common courtesy. It is in London.

As for the SOS button press, the buttons are in a stupid place and are not suitably protected from accidental activation. Again on London Underground the emergency stop alarm is within child's arm reach on the 95 stock, but London Underground have put a hinged flap over the top of it to prevent accidental activation.

Using both London Underground and the Metro on a regular basis, I have to say that the customer service standards in Tyne and Wear are appalling and the service is rapidly becoming a joke.

 

[ModernRailways]

As for the SOS button press, the buttons are in a stupid place and are not suitably protected from accidental activation. Again on London Underground the emergency stop alarm is within child's arm reach on the 95 stock, but London Underground have put a hinged flap over the top of it to prevent accidental activation.

Probably cost too much or will take to long to install, especially since it's such a simple thing to put on. It's only taken, what 4 years(?), to get the information boards inside the Metro working and even now it doesn't work properly. The info boards at stations are still hit and miss even though they were installed ages ago. Same with the smart ticketing, with the latest on that being the barriers won't be running until next Summer. Almost a year later than was last planned.

And Nexus want to run the buses. Ha! Need I say more

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It should also be noted that London Underground have the announcements pre-programmed into the software. However, drivers will still personally make the announcement. Most of the times they add something in. An example that I heard on the picc line being held just before Acton Town 'Once again, the signallers think the trains from Heafrow are more important. Hopefully, we'll be back on the move shortly and I apologise for the delay'.

 

[blue sabre]

The Underground isn't. The Metropolitan Line - only underground from Finchley Road to Aldgate - makes announcements whenever the train is stopped for longer than it should be somewhere or if it stops at a red signal. That is no different to Metro.
If you were stopped 4 or 5 times then yes you would be delayed. The timetable doesn't allow for extra stoppages so unless the train is early it would become delayed and late if it was held up. The problem with minor (or major) delays right now is the lack of information. I've noticed lately, there has been no announcement, just the display board saying 'Delays to Service. Metro Apoligise.'


Also, some news from Nexus that bicycles will be allowed on Metro in January in a trial scheme.

Consistency, do it for one line so do it for all. If there is a delay that will cause me to be more than a minute or two late then I'd expect some information on it, otherwise I don't really care if we have to stop at a red signal - it really isn't important.

Interestingly, a few posts earlier I did mention the fact that lack of communication of delays was an issue - IIRC your response was along the lines of 'what does it matter they are every 12 minutes anyway.' You soon changed your opinion.

 

[ModernRailways]

Consistency, do it for one line so do it for all. If there is a delay that will cause me to be more than a minute or two late then I'd expect some information on it, otherwise I don't really care if we have to stop at a red signal - it really isn't important.

The fact that that rule is in place should say everything. People want to know why they are stopped. It may just be that a train ahead is emptying of passengers because it terminates there in which case a quick 'We're just being held at a red signal because there is a terminating train currently occupying the platform. We should be on the move shortly.' would suffice.

Interestingly, a few posts earlier I did mention the fact that lack of communication of delays was an issue - IIRC your response was along the lines of 'what does it matter they are every 12 minutes anyway.' You soon changed your opinion.

I don't recall ever saying that. If I did please let me know. One of my biggest gripes with Metro is lack of communication. They do it fairly well on Twitter and Facebook (only appears manned between 9 and 5, the rest of the time it's automatic) but on the actual platform the PAs are barely audible, the actual information boards with next trains just say 'Delays to service' that doesn't tell me if the next train will be 10, 15, 20, or even 45 minutes away. And at Jarrow the next train is only shown once it leaves South Shields which means every train that appears on the board is only 9 minutes away at most.

 

[blue sabre]

I'm not saying it shouldn't. Just that when there is a train every 12 minutes people should still be able to get where there going 12 minutes later!

Accept my apologies, it wasn't quite what you said.

 

[142094]

Timetabling for London Underground is much different to the Metro, seeing as they are all just about timetabled to be at a platform at the same time and not stuck in a tunnel. On Metro, it is different. There is enough leeway with the approx. 3 minute headway that a train can make up a good few minutes between Heworth and Jesmond, which is why trains often are held at Ilford Road. The time spent changing drivers at South Gosforth is built into the timetable so there should be no reason for an announcement for a 'delay' due to this. Yes passengers might notice the train sitting on the platform for a few minutes but this is not a delay.

People want to know why they are stopped

But do they? This is your own opinion. I'm sure if you asked 100 people they would give 100 different answers. A delay is very hard to quantify, and I'd expect a delay of upto 5 minutes to not bother the vast majority of people. Again I refer back to the point that no-one has access to official running boards so you cannot tell if a train is delayed or not.

As for the SOS button press, the buttons are in a stupid place and are not suitably protected from accidental activation.

Obviously the button has to be low enough down for everyone to be able to use it, otherwise there would be little point in having it in place. Agree that there should be some sort of cover on it, but again if a lot of people had common sense they would realise that it could be set off by their child and keep an eye on them.

 

[ModernRailways]

Timetabling for London Underground is much different to the Metro, seeing as they are all just about timetabled to be at a platform at the same time and not stuck in a tunnel. On Metro, it is different. There is enough leeway with the approx. 3 minute headway that a train can make up a good few minutes between Heworth and Jesmond, which is why trains often are held at Ilford Road. The time spent changing drivers at South Gosforth is built into the timetable so there should be no reason for an announcement for a 'delay' due to this. Yes passengers might notice the train sitting on the platform for a few minutes but this is not a delay.

On most lines - Victoria, Northern and Jubilee not included as haven't checked - the timetable is very similar to Metro. I've just obtained the latest Working Train Timetable for London Underground from a friend on the Met line and it is remarkably similar to Metro. The piccadilly line is also just as similar with a little leeway to make up time due to longer than usual dwell times etc. as well as time factored in for driver change over at Acton Town even if there isn't supposed to be a driver change on that service.

But do they? This is your own opinion. I'm sure if you asked 100 people they would give 100 different answers. A delay is very hard to quantify, and I'd expect a delay of upto 5 minutes to not bother the vast majority of people. Again I refer back to the point that no-one has access to official running boards so you cannot tell if a train is delayed or not.

No need to say it's a delay then. Just say the train will be held for a short time because of a train in the platform ahead. Or that a driver change will be taking place which will mean the train will be stood in the platform for a couple of minutes. An announcement would suffice to just say what the train is being held for. If the train is waiting because the driver is early then an announcement along the lines of 'We're just being held in the platform as we are currently running a minute early'.

If someone knows the train timetable - majority of commuters appear to - then they will know when the train is late.

Obviously the button has to be low enough down for everyone to be able to use it, otherwise there would be little point in having it in place. Agree that there should be some sort of cover on it, but again if a lot of people had common sense they would realise that it could be set off by their child and keep an eye on them.

Surely, Metro should have the common sense to put these measures in place to prevent any careless (dare I say underage) parents? There will be always be people who will not give a toss what their kids do same as the person today who kicked the door because he looked like a prat pushing the button, not realising there was two big red stickers on each door saying it was out of order. It's weird on the railway because as soon as people enter a station they seem to lose any common sense.

 

[Nym]

To be honest common sense also goes out of windows at airports and coach stations...

 

[Tetchytyke]

The time spent changing drivers at South Gosforth is built into the timetable so there should be no reason for an announcement for a 'delay' due to this. Yes passengers might notice the train sitting on the platform for a few minutes but this is not a delay.

It may or may not be a "delay" but it is common courtesy and good customer service to mention it. Tube and London Buses announce driver changes even when it is timetabled and a standard procedure that's accounted for.

Agree that there should be some sort of cover on it, but again if a lot of people had common sense they would realise that it could be set off by their child and keep an eye on them.

A child is perfectly capable of pressing the button before you've noticed they've done it. Mine is, even though she has been told a thousand times not to press the button, she can still get distracted. Normally I stop her in time but occasionally she's too quick. It happens.

 

[142094]

First engineering work of the year will start next month on the 9th, between Byker and North Shields. This will mean that services will go wrong direction between Manors diamond crossover and Byker, which has happened on a few occasions in the past couple of years (interestingly it will also mean that the shortest timetabled service returns - Manors to Byker early on the Sunday morning).

 

[blue sabre]

Noticed this week that the barroers at Haymarket appear to have been moved 4/5 foot or so back from their original position so there is more space between them and the escalators.

 

[ModernRailways]

Noticed this week that the barroers at Haymarket appear to have been moved 4/5 foot or so back from their original position so there is more space between them and the escalators.

Really? I would have thought that would have been a huge hassle?

I haven't been through Central so don't if they've moved there, but if they have then that's a lot of work they will have had to do.

 

[transmanche]

Noticed this week that the barroers at Haymarket appear to have been moved 4/5 foot or so back from their original position so there is more space between them and the escalators.

Beat me to it!

Really? I would have thought that would have been a huge hassle?

But a sensible decision considering the dangerous backing-up of passengers at the top of the escalator.

 

[ModernRailways]

But a sensible decision considering the dangerous backing-up of passengers at the top of the escalator.

Oh definitely! If it's anything like Central then I imagine it is hell, Haymarket doesn't exactly have a huge concourse anyway since the refurbishment.

What I thought they were going to do with Haymarket was move the barriers to entrance to the stations just where it goes into the big open space with the lift. I know you have the travel shop, but that's the only place that would be affected, and even then if someone needs the travel shop they could be let through. Or glass panels could be put up to create a walkway to the travel shop.

 

[Kryten2340]

On a separate note, I think someone could be in trouble here. I can see the funny side but not the sort of image the company wants I suspect.

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=623924367666980&set=a.623924391000311.1073741826.417564668302952&type=1&stream_ref=10

 

[ModernRailways]

On a separate note, I think someone could be in trouble here. I can see the funny side but not the sort of image the company wants I suspect.

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=623924367666980&set=a.623924391000311.1073741826.417564668302952&type=1&stream_ref=10

If anything that is actually good for the company. It shows that the Inspectors are personable and not robots like some would think...

No doubt Nexus will take a hissy fit over it though, but to me it just show an inspector being friendly. There were a group of inspectors tonight talking about the PS3 games whilst giving someone a penalty fare. If anything it may stop some of the abuse they get.

 

[Maninblack]

I saw 4022 today. The paintwork is blistering. The paintwork on the refurbs cannot be much good! Plus; are the Metro trains being washed these days? They are filthy inside and out!

 

[142094]

I saw 4022 today. The paintwork is blistering. The paintwork on the refurbs cannot be much good! Plus; are the Metro trains being washed these days? They are filthy inside and out!

Winter is always the worst time for the Metro, especially the floors. Anything that arrives back at the depot from the west on a night time goes through the washer.

In other news Nexus have put forward plans for the refurbishment of Central Station:

http://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/news/north-east-news/metro-bosses-reveal-plans-8m-6508521

 

[robertclark125]

All I'll say about the trains being filthy inside is, Nexus don't make them filthy, the passengers do.

 

[transmanche]

All I'll say about the trains being filthy inside is, Nexus don't make them filthy, the passengers do.

When it's wet (and especially in the winter when pavements and platforms have been gritted) there's really not much that passengers can do to stop the train floors getting filthy.

DBR T&W can help by applying the occasional mop.

 

[Paul_10]

Its funny there is a complaint about the cleanliness of the trains because my first impression was I think the trains exterior wise have significantly improved, yes they are not perfect but compared to the past and considering the time of year then I think they do look much improved.

Regarding the Central Station refurbishment, whilst I'm not surprised the proposed plans are going to be scaled back from Haymarket, I'm disappointed that the wall panels appears that they will be painted only rather than being replaced.

I'm also not surprised there is a "catch" to all these plans, subject to outside funding, a lot of the propose plans may not go ahead and we will probably get something like South Gosforth/West Jesmond, nothing more than just a lick of new paint and a few minor changes here and there!

 

[Tetchytyke]

All I'll say about the trains being filthy inside is, Nexus don't make them filthy, the passengers do.

Although DB Regio screwed over the cleaners*, so it is precious little wonder that they are somewhat less than motivated.

(*yes I know the dispute was resolved, but people remember these things)

 

[ModernRailways]

Although DB Regio screwed over the cleaners*, so it is precious little wonder that they are somewhat less than motivated.

(*yes I know the dispute was resolved, but people remember these things)

Since Metro/Nexus chose Churchill for cleaning trains have been scruffy on the inside. It also doesn't help that the cleaners finish at 6/7pm!

Hopefully someone like ISS will get the contract as they seem to be a lot more proactive.