Tyne Valley Line timetable updates

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Not sure if there’s ever been a Thread for the TVL?

A week into the new timetable and a few things I’ve noticed.

The new 0544 off Carlisle is a welcome addition, into Newcastle for approximately 0730 is much appreciated, compared to well after 0800 on the 0632!

The doubling of service from Carlisle to Hexham has been long overdue, especially on a Friday and Saturday. Saturday morning services off Carlisle can often be almost full on departure with the weekend drinking crowds so an increase in capacity from extra services is to be applauded. It definitely suits the 0600-1800 timeframe.

Not so sure if Hexham to Newcastle requires three trains an hour though? I thought the Hexham terminators would simply be extended to Carlisle to achieve the doubling in capacity to the west, but it appears as though this isn’t the case! Anybody any ideas as to why?

Coming back from meetings in Newcastle through the week, I caught the 1723, and noticed the next train was 1821. Seems to be a big gap here, where there was a service at 1810 previously? A service about 1745 would be ideal? Just seems a big gap at a busy time of day.

Now we just need a later departure from Newcastle at approx 2200 to level up with the late departure from Carlisle and I’ll be happy!

Did notice a 142 trundle past one day when I took the dog out for a walk over Wetheral viaduct, so it seems they haven’t been fully consigned to the knackers yard just yet!

Any other regular users have comments on the new timetable?
 
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Paul_10

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Got to remember the 3tph only covers Metro centre, Prudhoe and Hexham for the most part and I think this is just tempory until the December timetable change where the Hexham terminators will cease to exist.

When I was on the tyne valley line on Monday I was surprised at how many 142s there was doing the full route of the line but coming back on Friday afternoon only saw 1 142 but there really was so few 158s observed which seems to be because of the 195s not in service so are needed elsewhere yet bizzarly a 158 did the Saltburn line and 142s was on the tyne valley line. :s

Hopefully things will be clearer when the 142s do finally depart although I have my doubts this will be the case given my skeptism of all 142s will be withdrawn by the end of the year in anycase.
 
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Got to remember the 3tph only covers Metro centre, Prudhoe and Hexham for the most part and I think this is just tempory until the December timetable change where the Hexham terminators will cease to exist.

Is there any confirmation that this will happen? It’s the obvious decision but wether it actually does is another matter!
 

70014IronDuke

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Not sure if there’s ever been a Thread for the TVL?

A week into the new timetable and a few things I’ve noticed.

The new 0544 off Carlisle is a welcome addition, into Newcastle for approximately 0730 is much appreciated, compared to well after 0800 on the 0632!

The doubling of service from Carlisle to Hexham has been long overdue, especially on a Friday and Saturday. Saturday morning services off Carlisle can often be almost full on departure with the weekend drinking crowds so an increase in capacity from extra services is to be applauded. It definitely suits the 0600-1800 timeframe....

Thank you for calling attention to the new timetable. I'm sure you can find some issues with it, but I think it is an astonishing improvement for most stations (Bardon Mill and Brampton don't see much of an improved service, but the footfall is pretty light in any case. Weatheral seems to do pretty well, and I'd posit Blaydon has never seen anything like it :) )

I do hope passenger numbers increase as a result.
 
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Yes, not many Stations can complain at the new service levels!

Had a good look at the full timetable last night, noticed there’s 29 services to Newcastle but only 27 to Carlisle along the full length of the line, sure there’s a reason for it, and it will likely get balanced out come the December change?

Further to my note of a long wait at Newcastle at teatime, if the 1755 was extended to Carlisle instead of terminating at Hexham it would be perfect. Also not quite sure the point of the 1808 that only goes as far as Prudhoe either?

Still, regardless of the niggles I’ve found, it’s a welcome leap for the line and as you say hopefully the passengers utilise it.
 

Class 170101

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Got to remember the 3tph only covers Metro centre, Prudhoe and Hexham for the most part and I think this is just tempory until the December timetable change where the Hexham terminators will cease to exist.

Seems a strange thing to do for one timetable and then withdraw one of the trains (per hour), its bound to cause complaints.
 

Roose

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More likely October changes to move further towards the franchise specification:
  • half-hourly service between Newcastle and Carlisle, providing 28 trains per day in each direction – 13 more than now. Some services will be faster than today, at around 80 minutes
  • a minimum of 10 services each way will operate as “Northern Connect” services, operated by fully refurbished trains
  • that Carlisle will receive at least two arrivals from Newcastle before 09:00, providing more choice and capacity for those travelling to work in Carlisle. Currently only one service arrives before 09:00
  • the MetroCentre will have 42 trains per day to and from Newcastle, 30 trains per day to and from Hexham, 28 trains per day to and from Carlisle, and at least 12 trains per day to and from each of Sunderland and Morpeth
  • that MetroCentre and Hexham will become Northern Connect stations, open from 6am until 10pm with free Wi-Fi and refreshments available for purchase
Had a good look at the full timetable last night, noticed there’s 29 services to Newcastle but only 27 to Carlisle along the full length of the line, sure there’s a reason for it...
More people want to get out of Carlisle?
;)
 

Darandio

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And you believe that whole copy/paste is still going to go ahead on time?
 

Paul_10

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I have noticed looking at RTT that since the timetable change that quite alot of padding are in the timetable. I have seen trains waiting between 5 to 7mins at Hexham and Metrocentre on quite alot of services which whilst it might be ideal on a punctuality level, im not sure its keen for passengers waiting such a while like that as we know people may start thinking something is wrong because the doors have not closed after everyone has got off. Also the Tyne valley is a fairly reliable line in anycase so is all the padding really needed?
 

PP57601

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Can anyone confirm if the 18:40 Prudhoe - Morpeth departs in service via the Newcastle end crossover, or does it do an ECS shunt between arrival and departures?

Thanks in advance!
 
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I believe the Hexham terminator exists because there is a requirement in the TSR for both Morpeth and Sunderland to have a direct service to MetroCentre. I guess there is some challenge around terminating at MetroCentre so the service from Middlesbrough/Nunthorpe got extended to Hexham.
 
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Didn’t the Middlesbrough/Nunthorpe run to Hexham anyways, and it was the Morpeth to MetroCentre that got extended to Hexham?
 

DanNCL

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Didn’t the Middlesbrough/Nunthorpe run to Hexham anyways, and it was the Morpeth to MetroCentre that got extended to Hexham?
Correct on the Middlesbrough/Nunthorpe runs, but it's a bit more complicated with the Morpeth runs. Originally they ran Morpeth to Metrocentre, then in May 2018 the Morpeth to Metrocentre services were merged with the Newcastle to Carlisle services, providing 3 trains per hour between Newcastle and Metrocentre instead of the previous 4. Then at the most recent timetable change, the Newcastle to Metrocentre services have been extended to Carlisle, meaning that for most of the day now there aren't any services terminating at Metrocentre.
 

hexagon789

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Then at the most recent timetable change, the Newcastle to Metrocentre services have been extended to Carlisle, meaning that for most of the day now there aren't any services terminating at Metrocentre.

Does that mean a net increase in Newcastle-Carlisle services as well or have I got that wrong?
 

DanNCL

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Does that mean a net increase in Newcastle-Carlisle services as well or have I got that wrong?
Yes, now two trains per hour Newcastle-Carlisle as opposed to one, and three trains per hour Newcastle-Hexham as opposed to two. Prudhoe, Hexham, Haltwhistle and Carlisle have all gained and extra train per hour to/from Newcastle.
 

hexagon789

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Yes, now two trains per hour Newcastle-Carlisle as opposed to one, and three trains per hour Newcastle-Hexham as opposed to two. Prudhoe, Hexham, Haltwhistle and Carlisle have all gained and extra train per hour to/from Newcastle.

Sounds like quite the improvement, yet this is the first I recall hearing of it.
 

hexagon789

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It was mentioned in the main Northern May 2019 timetable changes thread, but possibly swamped by other more complicated subject matter...

I think it must've, certainly for what I think is a fairly significant change to service provision, I thought it would've been more prominent.
 

omnicity4659

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More likely October changes to move further towards the franchise specification:
  • that MetroCentre and Hexham will become Northern Connect stations, open from 6am until 10pm with free Wi-Fi and refreshments available for purchase

MetroCentre station has had those facilities for years, long before the current franchise! Hexham recently got a small cafe, unsure as on the WiFi.

Unless they're planning drastic improvements to the whole station environment, its not really something to market...
 

Darandio

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MetroCentre station has had those facilities for years, long before the current franchise! Hexham recently got a small cafe, unsure as on the WiFi.

Unless they're planning drastic improvements to the whole station environment, its not really something to market...

MetroCentre has had what facilities for years?
 
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Correct on the Middlesbrough/Nunthorpe runs, but it's a bit more complicated with the Morpeth runs. Originally they ran Morpeth to Metrocentre, then in May 2018 the Morpeth to Metrocentre services were merged with the Newcastle to Carlisle services, providing 3 trains per hour between Newcastle and Metrocentre instead of the previous 4. Then at the most recent timetable change, the Newcastle to Metrocentre services have been extended to Carlisle, meaning that for most of the day now there aren't any services terminating at Metrocentre.

Be interesting to see how it all works if Connect begins in December, as aren’t the Middlesbrough to Carlisle via Newcastle pencilled in to run via the ECML?
 

since1814

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There's an access application in for Middlesbrough-Newcastle via the ECML and Stillington from December, so it looks that way. Base pattern I guess would be
1tph Carlisle-Newcastle-Middlesbrough (Fast)
1tph Carlisle-Newcastle-Morpeth (Fast Hexham-Newcastle)
1tph Hexham-Newcastle-Sunderland-Middlesbrough (Stopping)
 
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I note in the Northern Dec 19 Thread that it appears the Stillington application was knocked back, any ideas what the effect will be for the proposed Connect services? Coast line instead?
 

David 90825

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Got to remember the 3tph only covers Metro centre, Prudhoe and Hexham for the most part and I think this is just tempory until the December timetable change where the Hexham terminators will cease to exist.
The Hexham terminators will still be operating in the December 2019 timetable.
Can anyone confirm if the 18:40 Prudhoe - Morpeth departs in service via the Newcastle end crossover, or does it do an ECS shunt between arrival and departures?

Thanks in advance!
It arrives at 1833 and is not booked to shunt so presumably uses the crossover at the Newcastle end of the platform in service.
I note in the Northern Dec 19 Thread that it appears the Stillington application was knocked back, any ideas what the effect will be for the proposed Connect services? Coast line instead?
I don't know what is happening at the moment. There are a couple of associated ECS moves at Middlesbrough shown on TRUST but the services that should operate through to Middlesbrough are still shown as operating between Carlisle & Newcastle only.
 
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I was speaking to a guard on a service this week, he seemed to think Connect was highly unlikely come December, certainly via the ECML.
 

VT 390

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If the Connect Tyne Valley line service can not go to Middlesbrough via the ECML is it likely it (if it actually goes to Middlesbrough) will replace the existing via Sunderland service or be a new second service on that route?
 

Jonny

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I was speaking to a guard on a service this week, he seemed to think Connect was highly unlikely come December, certainly via the ECML.

It's been rejected according to the Northern timetable thread.

ECML changes tend to occur in the May timetable change. The pathing situation might improve once the Azumas and Novas are in full service.
 
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