Tyne & Wear Metro: Fleet Refurbishment List

[142094]

4051 down and 4039 is back up.
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Paul_10

Think it is you that has asked the question on the Nexus forum about the automatic announcements. The software is fitted to each car individually, which means that if there is a fault one car can still have the automatic announcements and the other car can be isolated. However, it doesn't make a difference which is the leading car. If the leading car has no announcements working, then it still will not have any when it becomes the trailing car at a terminus station. Would have been good if there was an option to have a feed from one car to another but for whatever reason this was not done/able to be done when they were installed.

As the software should be exactly the same, only the recordings changed, then say if 4038 is put with another car that has the 'old' recordings, both will play on their respective cars, but will not feed through to the other (if this makes sense).

 

[tez thorn]

They are going and coming thick and fast now,57 already,its just a shame nobody knows the order,and i an yet to hear the new voice on 4038,but wasnt the 'stand clear of the doors please' in a mans voice,i must admit i find the woman annoying,i dont like they way she says 'via',also i have a question,does anyone know why the last unit to have the proper cadminium yellow painted on its ends was 4014 but since then its been a bright yellow and why only on the 'A' ends i just assumed 4014 suffered damage in 2010 but it was both ends,bit confused as to why
Regards
Tez

 

[ModernRailways]

They are going and coming thick and fast now,57 already,its just a shame nobody knows the order,and i an yet to hear the new voice on 4038,but wasnt the 'stand clear of the doors please' in a mans voice,i must admit i find the woman annoying,i dont like they way she says 'via',also i have a question,does anyone know why the last unit to have the proper cadminium yellow painted on its ends was 4014 but since then its been a bright yellow and why only on the 'A' ends i just assumed 4014 suffered damage in 2010 but it was both ends,bit confused as to why
Regards
Tez

It's to comply with Network Rail's regulations. The yellow panel must be of a certain spec meaning the yellow part at the front of trains is likely to be repainted and stand out to the rest of the train.

 

[tez thorn]

So the spec must of changed from 2012,thanks for clearing that one up

 

[Paul_10]

4051 down and 4039 is back up.
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Paul_10

Think it is you that has asked the question on the Nexus forum about the automatic announcements. The software is fitted to each car individually, which means that if there is a fault one car can still have the automatic announcements and the other car can be isolated. However, it doesn't make a difference which is the leading car. If the leading car has no announcements working, then it still will not have any when it becomes the trailing car at a terminus station. Would have been good if there was an option to have a feed from one car to another but for whatever reason this was not done/able to be done when they were installed.

As the software should be exactly the same, only the recordings changed, then say if 4038 is put with another car that has the 'old' recordings, both will play on their respective cars, but will not feed through to the other (if this makes sense).

That makes sence for sure but I only presumed that because 4033A is distinctive for having its PA announcements sounding a bit 'fuzzy' and whenever its paired with another car, if 4033 is leading, the 'fuzzy' announcements sounds the same on the other car thus I presume it would be the same with the new announcements.

I'm sure I also seen if one car has the announcements switched off completely(i.e no text scrolled across the boards), if this becomes the rear car and the leading car has announcements working then you can still here the audio announcements.

So in that sence I'm sure if 4038/64 are paired with an unit with the old announcements, then if they are leading, the new announcement will play on the other unit but only if when its on the rear.

 

[tez thorn]

I reckon,possibly 4065 will be back very soon but i could be wrong,normally if the station announcement isnt working which has been the case with 4057 a few times it normally gets turned off but a message with nexus metro appears,however there have also been a few times where both metrocars have had no announcement at all,i sort of get it in regards to the last post,i just hope i can catch 4038 before the trial ends,but dont ask nexus cus they tell you nothing thats why i use this

 

[Tbrown1980]

Does anyone know if anymore metros have gone down to Doncaster or have returned to service? Any help would be appreciated.

I'll update the list towards the weekend. Many thanks to all who have contributed

 

[valenta]

4064 is down in Wabtec now.

 

[tez thorn]

Its stupid when you think about it,theres no sense of order at all it seems random
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4001 Prototype(no refurb)
4002 Prototype(no refurb)
4003 Red
4004 Refubished
4005 Red
4006 Refurbished
4007 Red
4008 Refurbished
4009 Refurbished
4010 Refurbished
4011 Refurbished
4012 Red
4013 Refurbished
4014 ????
4015 Refurbished
4016 Blue
4017 Refurbished
4018 Refurbished
4019 Refurbished
4020 Refurbished
4021 Refurbished
4022 Refurbished
4023 Refurbished
4024 Blue
4025 Red
4026 Red
4027 Advertisement
4028 Refurbished
4029 Refurbished
4030 Refurbished
4031 Refurbished
4032 Red
4033 Refurbished
4034 Refurbished
4035 Blue
4036 Refurbished
4037 Refurbished
4038 Advertisement
4039 Refurbished
4040 Advertisement
4041 Refurbished
4042 Refurbished
4043 Refurbished
4044 Refurbished
4045 Advertisement
4046 Refurbished
4047 Refurbished
4048 Red
4049 Refurbished
4050 Refurbished
4051 Refurbished
4052 Refurbished
4053 Refurbished
4054 Refurbished
4055 Advertisement
4056 Refurbished
4057 Refurbished
4058 Refurbished
4059 Refurbished
4060 Refurbished
4061 Refurbished
4062 Refurbished
4063 Refurbished
4064 Refurbished
4065 Refurbished
4066 Refurbished
4067 Advertisement
4068 Refurbished
4069 Refurbished
4070 Refurbished
4071 Refurbished
4072 Refurbished
4073 Refurbished
4074 Refurbished
4075 Refurbished
4076 Refurbished
4077 Red
4078 Refurbished
4079 Refurbished
4080 Advertisement
4081 Refurbished
4082 Refurbished
4083 Advertisement
4084 Advertisement
4085 Red
4086 Refurbished
4087 Refurbished
4088 Refurbished
4089 Refurbished
4090 Refurbished
Metrocars Refurbished:66? No Left:20?
whenever you spot one going away,let me know and i will update this list
Regards Tez

i have just updated a previous list i made,so it saves you a job
Tez

 

[142094]

4038 is back paired with 4084, so that means one has the new announcements and one doesn't.

 

[tez thorn]

Which one came back,i missed it

 

[Paul_10]

Any news on this suppose livery that 2 refurbished units are meant to carry regarding marking the halfway point of the refurbishments or was all this just a rumour?

 

[tez thorn]

Havent heard anything in a while myself

 

[142094]

Any news on this suppose livery that 2 refurbished units are meant to carry regarding marking the halfway point of the refurbishments or was all this just a rumour?

Haven't heard any further updates, so take it either Nexus haven't decided which car(s) to pick or whether to do it at all.

 

[tez thorn]

That sounds like nexus,i have a question,how is it that flood damaged metrocar 4044 went for refurbishment but 4087 was coupled to 4044 that day but hasnt gone at all, but they were also quick to do 4052 and 4086 when involved in the small fire at south gosforth,it just seems 4087 has been forgotten about, either that or thats the 4th metrocar not being refurbished
Tez

 

[Paul_10]

Haven't heard any further updates, so take it either Nexus haven't decided which car(s) to pick or whether to do it at all.

More than likely to be the latter I shall bet(as with the Steve and Karen metro radio livery)! I would be interested what these designs are meant to look like though.

 

[ModernRailways]

Metro want a uniform livery which is why the MetroRadio livery design was held off and is now not going to be done on a refurbed set. I doubt we will see this special livery and that they will all be the same!

 

[tez thorn]

Do you think they might make a plaque instead

 

[142094]

It's a Nexus idea which was due to reaching the half way stage in the 34 life refurbishment.

Perhaps what would be better is actually sorting out some of the other problems - it will be a miracle if they get another 10 years out of the fleet.

 

[tez thorn]

I agree with you there,im guessing youve had a bad experience with the metro recently,its like i said on the nexus website,trains that are currently in service seem to be the ones falling apart and the ones that dont need it get it but im kinda glad 4064 went away,maybe they will be able to sort out that scream that comes from it

 

[ModernRailways]

It's a Nexus idea which was due to reaching the half way stage in the 34 life refurbishment.

Perhaps what would be better is actually sorting out some of the other problems - it will be a miracle if they get another 10 years out of the fleet.

10 years? You're optimistic :P I was thinking more 5 years. We've started seeing a lot more failures recently, that may not be helped by Social Media reporting each incident, but as an overall we seem to be really starting to struggle! Hopefully, it's just because the fleet is fairly stretched but I think it's a problem with the age of the trains and the refurbishment being to a low quality!

I've noticed on the DIC chairs that the plastic around the bottom next to the box doesn't tend to be cut properly. The white plastic looks cheap all round, the lighting fixtures are nice, but they have been removed from 3 of my trains so far (only 1 which has either been stolen, or removed because they were dangerous).

Nexus really need to pull their finger out and get new trains, either by asking DB to buy them or asking Government. We need more/new trains and there doesn't seem to be any significant plans. IIRC, they expect the first new train to be undergoing testing in 2029, with the full new fleet at around Christmas 2030.

On an unrelated note: Hebburn, Jarrow and Bede are undergoing refurbishment. Hebburn currently has no panelling and is essentially the barebones station structure.

 

[142094]

I'd be very surprised if these trains last beyond 2025. Time will tell.

 

[Paul_10]

Yet its funny, despite all these failures, I have never been on a train that has actually failed but I have seen 4048/4084 failed at Brockley Whins a few months ago but I do think social media does not help to be fair and people are getting a false impression of whats been happening for years now.

The concerning thing for me is there be plenty of trains withdrawn from service which have not been reported on social media so whilst fleet realiability is a concern, there is little we can do about it and Nexus/DB could not get new trains just from a flick of a switch(like some appear to believe) so refurbishment is the only option.

For most passengers though, they won't have a journey that has been disrupted, a problem occuring well on the Coast won't be affecting people in Sunderland and you will only know of this problem if people got social media and it has been reported.

 

[AutoKratz]

10 years? You're optimistic :P I was thinking more 5 years. We've started seeing a lot more failures recently, that may not be helped by Social Media reporting each incident, but as an overall we seem to be really starting to struggle! Hopefully, it's just because the fleet is fairly stretched but I think it's a problem with the age of the trains and the refurbishment being to a low quality!

I've noticed on the DIC chairs that the plastic around the bottom next to the box doesn't tend to be cut properly. The white plastic looks cheap all round, the lighting fixtures are nice, but they have been removed from 3 of my trains so far (only 1 which has either been stolen, or removed because they were dangerous).

Nexus really need to pull their finger out and get new trains, either by asking DB to buy them or asking Government. We need more/new trains and there doesn't seem to be any significant plans. IIRC, they expect the first new train to be undergoing testing in 2029, with the full new fleet at around Christmas 2030.

On an unrelated note: Hebburn, Jarrow and Bede are undergoing refurbishment. Hebburn currently has no panelling and is essentially the barebones station structure.

The last I heard was that internal discussions were due to start about the future of the fleet and that there was due to be an early-stage meeting about any future fleets. Part of the debate is to decide whether they will seek 2 fleets or a single stock for both on-street and the core network. Probably the most interesting part was that they want the vehicles to be as visionary and state-of-the-art as the original Metrocars which means an off-the-shelf product is unlikely. High on the list of priority is the energy efficiency of the cars as the current fleet is apparently very resource intensive.

 

[142094]

Yet its funny, despite all these failures, I have never been on a train that has actually failed but I have seen 4048/4084 failed at Brockley Whins a few months ago but I do think social media does not help to be fair and people are getting a false impression of whats been happening for years now.

The concerning thing for me is there be plenty of trains withdrawn from service which have not been reported on social media so whilst fleet realiability is a concern, there is little we can do about it and Nexus/DB could not get new trains just from a flick of a switch(like some appear to believe) so refurbishment is the only option.

For most passengers though, they won't have a journey that has been disrupted, a problem occuring well on the Coast won't be affecting people in Sunderland and you will only know of this problem if people got social media and it has been reported.

The social media aspect is part of the problem IMO - a large proportion of the time it seems as if the person(s) who update Facebook etc do not really have an idea of what actually happens to the trains. It is quite rare for a train to completely fail - in the vast majority of cases if something fails on one car, it can be isolated and the other car then has to do the bulk of the work. So in reality, the train hasn't failed, but probably will be delayed due to the driver having to sort out the problem, and then may have to run at a reduced speed for the rest of the journey. For example, with a power fault, you can isolate the traction motors on one car but the other car then has to haul this 'dead' car so acceleration and braking take a lot longer. In these cases, if there is a spare at the depot and a spare driver, the set can be swapped over, so the delay is reduced.

With certain other faults, these trains have to be returned to the depot. Easiest example is where there is a problem with a door that cannot be closed. If the door cannot be isolated (which is what happens when you see the 'Sorry Out of Order' stickers), everyone is detrained and it goes back to the depot.

So very rarely does a train actually 'fail' outright. Although on Facebook the messages 'delays due to a failed train' and 'train taken out of service' are often used interchangeably, perhaps more emphasis should be on putting down the correct reason for doing so. Plus as has been said, the vast majority of people on there who are the serial moaners will not be travelling on that train, and only feel like spouting off as they've nothing else better to do.

 

[tez thorn]

Well last month I was on set 4023/4034, and one of the cars appeared to be dragging and affecting the acceleration.

I didn't moan, but someone else was, so I moved seats, and before 4046 was refurbished that used to do the same.

People must remember the carriages are 34+ years old, so of course there are faults that occur, like was just said, they just moan because they can

 

[Paul_10]

The social media aspect is part of the problem IMO - a large proportion of the time it seems as if the person(s) who update Facebook etc do not really have an idea of what actually happens to the trains. It is quite rare for a train to completely fail - in the vast majority of cases if something fails on one car, it can be isolated and the other car then has to do the bulk of the work. So in reality, the train hasn't failed, but probably will be delayed due to the driver having to sort out the problem, and then may have to run at a reduced speed for the rest of the journey. For example, with a power fault, you can isolate the traction motors on one car but the other car then has to haul this 'dead' car so acceleration and braking take a lot longer. In these cases, if there is a spare at the depot and a spare driver, the set can be swapped over, so the delay is reduced.

To be honest though, even if they are given a more defined reason then the same comments will appear and they will think brand new = better but we all know that is not fully the case.

I been on numerous trains which have to be withdrawn from service due to a fault but never really cause a delay as there is a replacement set behind.

I think I seen one case of where one car was isolated and the other car doing all the work and this was refubished sets 4046/4022.. with the former leading and the latter only having the emergency lighting on with passengers on board but as it was a short working, I'd imagine once it got to Pelaw then it would of been withdrawn from service.

It does become a worry if stretched resources is an issue with fleet realiability and yet we got the prospects of 4 units not seeing active service so in essence the problem won't go away.

Just to add on fleet replacement, I'm sure i read a little while back there is the possibility of yet another refurbishment with the current fleet in around 10 or so years time if of course new units have for whatever reason not be funded but it was stressed this is the last option Nexus wants to do and they want a fleet replacement.

Imo, I rather Nexus stop obessing with the idea of street trams running and just get their own back yard sorted pretty much, its far too expensive and for too much planning/engineering work to consider street trams in an area where there is some decent transport links to most large areas in Tyne and Wear. Of course the main exception is Washington and I'm sure I like many other people rather this important link gets sorted before even thinking about having trams roaming around Tyne & Wear.

 

[tez thorn]

I think it might be me, but i rode on harry cowens the other day(4041) and it was paired with 4059, and it appears

thats the only metrocar nexus care about, the ride was smooth and comfortable

,but 4059 made a right racket, on a separate note has anyone else noticed that 4062 has still got the same rattle it

had before it was redurbished

Regards

Tez

 

[142094]

4036 has gone to Doncaster and 4065 is back. 4045 is now paired with 4027 and looks like might be back in service soon.
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I think I seen one case of where one car was isolated and the other car doing all the work and this was refubished sets 4046/4022.. with the former leading and the latter only having the emergency lighting on with passengers on board but as it was a short working, I'd imagine once it got to Pelaw then it would of been withdrawn from service..

Surprised that it was allowed to carry passengers when only the emergency lighting was on. That is, unless the driver did not know there was a problem. Some faults only show up when the driver changes ends at a terminus station, or if someone reports it. Apparently trains have been running around after someone has put a window out and no passenger reported it as they knew it would be taken out of service.

 

[Paul_10]

4036 has gone to Doncaster and 4065 is back. 4045 is now paired with 4027 and looks like might be back in service soon.
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Surprised that it was allowed to carry passengers when only the emergency lighting was on. That is, unless the driver did not know there was a problem. Some faults only show up when the driver changes ends at a terminus station, or if someone reports it. Apparently trains have been running around after someone has put a window out and no passenger reported it as they knew it would be taken out of service.

An end of an era so to speak with no more Green metrocars left on the system.

Indeed 4045 is back in service on this evening's peak, quite fortunate to catch a ride on it, very smooth and quiet ride it was. Shame the floor hasnt been cleaned but never mind!

Well 4022 was the rear unit so the driver may not of noticed and it was more than likely been taken out of service at Pelaw. I suppose there is the safety aspect in tunnels but I suppose the risks are low with just emergency lighting on outside tunnels, especially on sunny days and this was also early morning(around 7ish) so not quite the full peak rush either.

Apart from 4056, I don't think there is many refurbished units which got any severe rattles apart from the usual you tend to hear on Metrocars. I do note with refurbished cars in particular that quite a bit of noise can come from the Articulation joints, impression I get that the rubber used for it is too thick and its catching the white plastic and you can see the black marks it leaves behind. 4061 was one of the worse for this.