Tyne & Wear Metro: Fleet Refurbishment List

Discussion in 'Other Public Transport' started by Tbrown1980, 10 Apr 2014.

  1. MetroCar4058

    MetroCar4058 Member

    Messages:
    463
    Joined:
    18 Jun 2014
    The turn time at South Shields is only 4 1/2 minutes therefore reducing it any further isn’t possible.
     
  2. inais20

    inais20 Member

    Messages:
    9
    Joined:
    12 Nov 2014
    How many platforms will the new South Shields station have?
     
  3. MetroCar4058

    MetroCar4058 Member

    Messages:
    463
    Joined:
    18 Jun 2014
    One only.
     
  4. Paul_10

    Paul_10 Member

    Messages:
    397
    Joined:
    24 Feb 2011
    I always thought it was around 6 mins although I only have fairly limited experience so might be wrong on that. Either way, I still don't get how signalling constraints mean a train can't stop at Chichester P2 when as I say, there is only one train in that section for the duration. I see many more people are trying to get answers to this also, it is probably actually quite a big inconvience for any passengers involved.
     
  5. jkkne

    jkkne Member

    Messages:
    88
    Joined:
    13 Aug 2012
    Nexus have been pretty vague and non commital on this issue tbh. Which really is peak Nexus.

    I think what frustrates Chichester passengers is seeing the train crawl through P2. Without the above detail from Nexus it doesn’t look great to passengers.

    Another day of infrastructure failure today...still...new trains soon *cough*
     
  6. Paul_10

    Paul_10 Member

    Messages:
    397
    Joined:
    24 Feb 2011
    Points failure I believe and guessing where the suspension was, I assume it be the points at Gosforth Junction? And tbh, giving what usually happens with train orders in terms of delays then I think the original target of fleet replacement occuring between 2023-2025 to be a more realistic target than the first train coming by the end of 2021. The platform board bugs really need to be sorted out mind and it seems going by the comments, its actually getting a whole lot worse, quite embarracing really.

    Yep, not commenting on the issue does seem to be telling, I personally don't get it, I really don't although I only been through the area just the once since the new build but as I say, only one train is operating between Tyne Dock and South Shields when the service is running smoothly. Even the speed restriction does not add up as the approch to South Shields did not seem that significantly slower to me?
     
  7. Scott M

    Scott M Member

    Messages:
    245
    Joined:
    14 Aug 2014
    Been looking at old photos of the metro recently. I have found photos of when they had the old line colours on the destinations. I have found examples of the following (see attached):

    •Green line (South Shields to Airport)
    •Yellow line (Pelaw to St James)
    •Red line (Pelaw to Benton)
    •Black line (well, not really a line - I believe this was used for miscellaneous destinations such as South Gosforth, Tynemouth and “Not In Service”)

    Apparently, from looking at old metro maps, there was also a blue line, running from North Shields to St James? I have as of yet been unable to find a photo of a metro with a blue destination on the front; does anyone know if blue line trains used to have blue destination boards on front?
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: 16 Nov 2018
  8. 142094

    142094 Established Member

    Messages:
    8,782
    Joined:
    7 Nov 2009
    Location:
    Newcastle
    Yes, think I remember Wallsend and North Shields being in blue. There is a picture of it somewhere on Flickr.
     
  9. 142094

    142094 Established Member

    Messages:
    8,782
    Joined:
    7 Nov 2009
    Location:
    Newcastle
    4 minutes is the shortest turnaround time, although this does depend on if the driver needs to use the facilities at the terminus station.

    I believe the reason is that, due to the slower linespeed, if Chichester was served, it would throw the whole timetable out of the window. You'll often see that a train a few minutes late getting into Jarrow or from Hebburn to Pelaw will affect every other train entering the single line.
     
  10. ModernRailways

    ModernRailways Established Member

    Messages:
    1,749
    Joined:
    21 Apr 2011
    https://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/new...E2GAezJd2XcC1vGXgT_pQv7_q0ZhKJKAwAPSMGku7qyR8
     
  11. Paul_10

    Paul_10 Member

    Messages:
    397
    Joined:
    24 Feb 2011
    https://www.flickr.com/photos/metromadme/8679139580/in/album-72157633319689652/ - Picture courtesy of metromadme, fantastic collection of photos in there, well worth a look.

    Interesting about the tempory depot although I think it will be a missed opportunity and not full on worth the costs if its going to be knocked back down within 10 years.

    Also interesting the Chronicle mentioned 42 trains, I know the number suggested was less than what we originally got now(which could be a mistake in itself) but would 42 trains suggests effectively 1 whole train rather than the 2 carriages we have now?
     
  12. Crimzz

    Crimzz Member

    Messages:
    31
    Joined:
    16 Mar 2012
    Location:
    Newcastle
    The new fleet will consist of 84 carriages (42 trains) so yeah I do belive it will be a Walk-Through type sets.
     
  13. hacman

    hacman Member

    Messages:
    139
    Joined:
    22 Jul 2011
    The new fleet will be 42 trains, which is a total of 168 coaches. (4 coach trains).

    The current fleet is 90 trains strong, each train being 2 coaches, operating in pairs to form 4 coach trains.

    The new trains will be fixed consists of the same length as the two unit pairs we see now.

    As such, we’re still getting less.

    Interestingly, I’m also hearing that the 25KV dual voltage requirement has been dropped in favour of exploring battery tech.

    The depot at Howden will be more of a yard with basic facilities. It’s intended to provide relief while Gosforth is being rebuilt.

    Nexus explored the option of moving the depot completely, but in fairness it is rather well placed from an operational perspective compared to anywhere else they’d be able to purchase suitable land.
     
  14. AutoKratz

    AutoKratz Member

    Messages:
    66
    Joined:
    26 Jan 2010
    Location:
    Washington
    If the first new train isn’t number 5001 I’m kicking off :lol::lol::lol:
     
  15. ModernRailways

    ModernRailways Established Member

    Messages:
    1,749
    Joined:
    21 Apr 2011
    I'd love to know where you're getting this information.

    The current trains we have operate in pairs - two carriages (metrocars) coupled together, they are not four carriages.

    There will likely be 42 trains. They could be formed of four walk through carriages, or they could be formed of five walk through carriages (or three, or six, or seven). That is for the bidders to decide in their design phase. The new trains could be longer, as long as all the doors fit into the platforms then the length of them is no worry especially as I believe they will be fitted with in cab CCTV to allow dispatch from the cab without the need for the platform mirrors.

    Again, the 25Kv is something for the train designers to incorporate, Nexus have given their rough specification and it is now up to the train designers to come up with their ideas.

    The depot at Howdon is going to be used for two key things, it will be used for routine maintenance whilst Gosforth depot is completely rebuilt. And then it will also be the access point for the new rolling stock. Nexus were very keen to acquire the land adjacent to Hebburns single track section but that fell through and houses are now being built there. The new South Shields training centre will also be used for stabling of trains and as a place to provide routine maintenance on the stock as well as hopefully provide an earlier start time from South Shields towards the City Centre.
     
  16. hacman

    hacman Member

    Messages:
    139
    Joined:
    22 Jul 2011
    So, as I said, the Howdon depot will be used while Gosforth is being refurbished. Nexus looked at other sites to relocate Gosforth, as the land is quite an asset, but it's now going to be rebuilt instead. Outstabling at South Shields in addition to other locations has always been possible - the training facility simply adds some maintainance capabilities and better security to this location.

    Howdon is intended to be returned to scrub-land in about 10 years when Nexus are done with it.

    The trains currently are twin-car articulated units (aka metrocars), operating in pairs. 2 x 2 is 4. Nexus and others refer to each metrocar as a carriage. Tomato-tomato.

    Nexus specified in the tender that the length of the units should be ~180 feet in length. Obviously it's up to the manufacturer to specify how they achieve this, but bearing in mind the amount of funding allocated to the fleet is relatively minimal, I'm not hopeful that they will be longer. Nexus have categorically ruled out platform extensions too. Platform mirrors are a side-node, and would have no impact on the length or configuration, and I never mentioned this.

    Whilst the new trains could consist of more than 4 segments / cars, the only benefit to this would be to keep the axel-to-weight ratio within spec - each car in the existing design is already relatively short, and a design that proposed more, smaller cars would need to justify the additional cost and engineering overhead from having more articulated sections, not to mention the reduced energy efficiency from additional wheelsets.

    The 25kv situation is something I have spoken about with a journalist in the industry who was involved in the Nexus / supplier know-your-customer event. Power supply is not a "rough" component of the specification, and is explicit in certain options either being required or not. Again, suppliers could choose to incorporate this, but if they're not being explicitly required to and there is no extra funding for it, why would they?
     
  17. jkkne

    jkkne Member

    Messages:
    88
    Joined:
    13 Aug 2012
    Speaking of the single line, have Nexus explored the possibility of dualing the track between Pelaw and Hebburn and perhaps even onwards to Jarrow?
     
  18. hacman

    hacman Member

    Messages:
    139
    Joined:
    22 Jul 2011
    It was discussed a few years back, but has all gone quiet as far as I am aware.

    I know there was mention before 2010 of it being tied into a new South Shields station development, but it seems to have not come to pass in that regard.
     
  19. Scott M

    Scott M Member

    Messages:
    245
    Joined:
    14 Aug 2014
  20. Crimzz

    Crimzz Member

    Messages:
    31
    Joined:
    16 Mar 2012
    Location:
    Newcastle
    Metro to star in a new ITV documentary series



    From the nexus website
     
  21. Chris125

    Chris125 Established Member

    Messages:
    2,258
    Joined:
    12 Nov 2009
    Presumably bids will be scored on both price and how much of the spec they meet - 25kv capability may not be compulsory but I'd be surprised if at least some (Stadler?) didn't offer passive provision so it could be retro-fitted and/or provided on future orders.
     
  22. DanNCL

    DanNCL Member

    Messages:
    875
    Joined:
    17 Jul 2017
    Location:
    North East
    Does anyone know if 4018, 4019 and 4075 are currently operational? I've not seen 4018 since May, and not seen 4019 or 4075 at all this year.
     
  23. AutoKratz

    AutoKratz Member

    Messages:
    66
    Joined:
    26 Jan 2010
    Location:
    Washington
    The 25kv spec has been officially ditched. It turned out to be cost prohibitive upon further investigation. The new strategy is battery storage so the new trains can run ‘overhead wire free’ for a specified distance. The costings and details haven’t been worked out so it’s unclear whether this would allow the trains to run on an unelectrified extension or if it would just allow trains to travel a short distance in the event of an overhead power failure on the existing network.
     
  24. xotGD

    xotGD Established Member

    Messages:
    1,543
    Joined:
    4 Feb 2017
    I'm thinking Sunderland to the Metro Centre...
     
  25. MetroCar4058

    MetroCar4058 Member

    Messages:
    463
    Joined:
    18 Jun 2014
    Can't see that being considered on the current infrastructure; the Sunderland line is rather tight as it is and adding 4/5 paths an hour would be difficult. I also doubt that route would add much value unless it truly penetrated Newcastle. Perhaps it is better to start with integrating tickets on the Northern services between Sunderland - MetroCentre Via Heworth and Central without needing a DayRover or Transfare ticket, but again I doubt this would have any impact on farebox revenue for Metro and would run at a loss.

    If a Metro service was to run from Sunderland to MetroCentre, it would probably require a shuffle in infrastructure along the Pelaw corridor and closure/mixed use of the Heworth mainline station as Metro again doesn't really have the paths along the core for a high frequency MetroCentre service without major signalling works.

    Interestingly, a direct Metro service to the MetroCentre may cause some geographical shift in activity, but in my opinion unless the service runs through Monument it really is difficult for Metro to beat the bus if it were to connect to the MetroCentre as Central isn't really in the true daytime economic hub of the city.
     
  26. NewcastleOne

    NewcastleOne Member

    Messages:
    23
    Joined:
    18 Dec 2017
    Does anyone know how tall the tunnels are?
    Both In Newcastle and Sunderland
     
  27. 142094

    142094 Established Member

    Messages:
    8,782
    Joined:
    7 Nov 2009
    Location:
    Newcastle
    Not sure of the exact figures but the tunnels in Newcastle are smaller than standard Network Rail clearances, as are the overheads on the majority of the original system (not including Benton to Callerton/Airport).
     
  28. AutoKratz

    AutoKratz Member

    Messages:
    66
    Joined:
    26 Jan 2010
    Location:
    Washington
    Today I sat in the front seat next to the driver’s cab and I noticed something in the cab constantly clicks randomly as the train brakes and pulls into a station. The best I can describe it as is a loud noticable clicking sound at irregular intervals. Does anyone know what it is for my own info - I assume it’s to do with the brakes?
     
  29. 142094

    142094 Established Member

    Messages:
    8,782
    Joined:
    7 Nov 2009
    Location:
    Newcastle
    The cupboard to the left of the driver's door when looking from the front passenger seat is filled with electrical circuits and relays. When going through the braking steps from 1st, 2nd, 3rd and full service (also Emergency as a last resort) the relays make a clicking sound. Doesn't normally happen when accelerating.
     
  30. jkkne

    jkkne Member

    Messages:
    88
    Joined:
    13 Aug 2012
    Not sure if it's at all related to the ongoing saga of passenger information displays but the passenger information announcements on every Metro I've been on lately have been totally out of sync.
     

Share This Page