Tyne & Wear Metro: Fleet Refurbishment List

Discussion in 'Other Public Transport' started by Tbrown1980, 10 Apr 2014.

  1. hacman

    hacman Member

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    This, this and this again.

    So many of the problems we have today are a result of no long term planning, other than the circle-jerk that the Orpheus was. Add to that the fact that political empire building has prevented proper integration with and advertisement of other local rail lines, and this is why we can't have nice things.

    Sadly we have also seen much the same with the new rolling stock tender for Metro too, with a chance to redefine what Metro is to the region and to remove some technical limitations completely overlooked.
     
  2. Paul_10

    Paul_10 Member

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    Im not one for people to be removed from there jobs as for me, the main issues has been down to lack of investment and how any investment has been spent. I mean when DB regio took over, was Richard McClean any good? He quietly left the scene and Sharon Kelly took over which going by Modernrailways posts was quite incompetant also. Benard Gardner quietly retired and i think thats when Tobyn Hughes took over so for me, you can get rid of Lewis and Hughes but the issues will still be there.

    Imo its how the money has been spent thats been the issue, the train refurbishment should be given more funding to do more traction work on them to get them reliable, not just corrosion and interior work seeing as life expired trains will be around for another 10 years after refurbishment so less money should of been spent on station refurbishment and more on getting the most important assest the passengers will know more reliable.

    I cant wait how the handling of the new trains will turn out, i be amazed if a new train is delivered by late 2021.
     
  3. hacman

    hacman Member

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    Ironically, the traction hardware is one of the more reliable parts of these trains now. Most of the issues that we see day-to-day are to do with everything surrounding that; for example doors, electrical control systems, and so on.

    The stations also needed to be worked on equally. Many had issues with things like wiring, and other systems such as fire alarms and the PA hardware were life-expired. When these systems are replaced, you more or less have two options - take all the panels out, stack them all up neatly, hope none get damaged, then re-install, or just overhaul the station while you're at it for not a great deal more. And in either case you have to deal with issues such as asbestos removal!

    The situation is quite simple - these trains should have started to be withdrawn in about 2010-2015 based on their original design life, let alone the duty cycle and varying levels of care they have recieved. For this to happen a funding bid needed to go in 3-4 years prior, but it didn't, and when it did finally go in, the country was in the midst of a recession, and also saw a major shift in political power and policy.
     
  4. cosmo

    cosmo Member

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    4020 and another unit on an interesting run today, never seen units specifically devoted to driver training so was quite surprised when it went by non stop with a specific "Driver Training" destination board!
     
  5. MetroCar4058

    MetroCar4058 Member

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    Trains used to just run 'Not in Service' but I think the update to the destination boards has added a few new options :p
     
  6. Arctic Troll

    Arctic Troll Established Member

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    The traction stuff is the only bit that still works! I agree though, the issues run a lot deeper, hopeless as I think Hughes is. I don't think the £350m has been spent badly- the stations needed refurbishing- but it wasn't enough and Nexus weren't astute enough to get what was needed.

    In the time Manchester have pretty much doubled the Metrolink network and bought a brand new fleet of trams, Nexus have done precisely nothing. So it's not a Tory thing or a Northern thing, much as the dimwitted Forbes likes to argue otherwise.

    These new trains should have been ordered 10 years ago. I still maintain an M5000 tram would do the job perfectly well. Proven technology available off the shelf and Nexus farted around instead.
     
  7. MetroCar4058

    MetroCar4058 Member

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    To be fair, you can’t compare Metro to Metrolink. Manchester has a greater level of political capital and Nexus were unwilling to follow the funding model that TfGM have agreed to, which is in essence a loan. Metrolink make a profit which pays off this loan and consequently do not have any government grants. T&W is too poor to agree to such a funding model and you’d be moaning a lot more about your ABC ticket cost as it would probably be around £7 for a day ticket ;) Nexus really can only follow a cap in hand model. This said, I agree that they could’ve made more progress in this area, but you really can’t compare it to Manchester.

    M5000s struggle in terms of ride quality at higher speeds and have a much reduced capacity on Metro as current. I’m sure they’re too big for the tunnels also? So I’d have to disagree there.
     
  8. QANN93

    QANN93 Member

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    Does anyone know why a large amount of trains have been withdrawn from service the last few days. No shorts were running to day.what's the fault with them all?
     
  9. AutoKratz

    AutoKratz Member

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    The Metro has a number of very specific constraints (e.g tunnel height) which mean that an off-the-shelf replacement vehicle isn’t possible which is partly the reason why they’re still operating the original 80s fleet.

    I’m hearing they’ve discovered a problem with the driver’s cabs which is why the additional peak trains aren’t operating while the issues are fixed on certain units.
     
  10. ModernRailways

    ModernRailways Established Member

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    Cab windscreens. Not a lot of cars are affected, however car availability is generally quite low currently which isn't helping.

    On a side note, the OHLE is still up across the system which is a miracle. We had another train with a faulty pantograph which was snagging the OHLE. Pantograph dropped and returned to the depot. From what I've heard from some of the Nexus Rail staff is that they've been sending out engineers almost daily checking the OHLE for potential issues, and we've also had them checking the pantographs on trains, 2 cars have been withdrawn due to pantograph faults.


    M5000s would never work on Metro. Their size, design and loadings simply wouldn't work. They would require a significant amount of changes be made before they could be used on the Metro network.
     
  11. Arctic Troll

    Arctic Troll Established Member

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    An M5000 seats 66, a Metrocar seats 64. Agreed I'd not considered if they'd fit in the tunnels, but otherwise no different to a Metrocar, which is also just a tram.

    Maybe, though I'm not convinced by the argument. "Too poor" Nexus did exactly this for TT2. But yes, agreed about fares impacts (TT2 is extortionate and getting worse), even if Metro should be making profit on passenger levels and I'd question the management if they're not.
     
  12. MetroCar4058

    MetroCar4058 Member

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    The M5000s and their current design do not meet Metros needs. Here are a few reasons:
    • Crash worthiness is not sufficient for Network Rail running
    • Smaller units in terms of capacity with a loss of 100 in terms of capacity
    • Car body height is very much out of Metros range
    This is of course ignoring the issue with traction package, bogies and wheel profiles etc. Its important to note that 1500V DC is not allowed on-street tram sections, so Metro as a tramway ain't happening.

    It will however be interesting to see what the new M5000s for TfGM look like; if they are single ~60M cars, they may be a good starting point for Bombardiers bid although I imagine they will follow on from their Movia design.
     
  13. jkkne

    jkkne Member

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    I see Metro have started updating which of their timetabled peak services won’t be running.

    Quite a positive step forward but also fairly damning when you realise how much slack they pick up (tbf mainly from North of the river into the City)

    On Huw Lewis...they keep wheeling him out when things go tits up. Maybe it’s my interest in this forum but I’d much rather hear from the Operations Team or the Engineering Team than the Customer Service face.
     
  14. cosmo

    cosmo Member

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    Unit failure at Gateshead Stadium caused some minor havoc today, was at Pelaw when 4041+4066 led 4043+4078 through Pelaw in convoy. So one of those 2 was the failure.
     
  15. cosmo

    cosmo Member

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    4041 and 4066 still there, that might be the failed set. Explains why it was so slow through Pelaw, it will have been pushed from behind
     
  16. jkkne

    jkkne Member

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    They seemed to get things back on track then another failed train tonight knocks them back.

    The twitter account which has been excellent was woeful tonight, they just decided to stop responding.

    One thing I’ve noticed is how poor on board announcement and station tannoys are. Completely inaudible
     
  17. ModernRailways

    ModernRailways Established Member

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    Those are the problem cars and yes it was pushed.

    The points at Pelaw where trains from South Shields and South Hylton meet towards Newcastle also failed which heavily affected trains coming from South Shields towards Newcastle.
     
  18. jkkne

    jkkne Member

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    Looks like 3 timetabled trains plus 2 peaks withdrawn this morning due to driver shortages...
     
  19. Arctic Troll

    Arctic Troll Established Member

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    The poor reliability I can almost forgive. But the lack of staff? Absolutely disgusting.

    We can blame historical Nexus mismanagement for a lot, but having insufficient drivers should stop with the management. The driver resource issues have been ongoing for well over a year now, yet the greaseball Hughes continues to trouser his obscene salary. It beggars belief.
     
  20. ModernRailways

    ModernRailways Established Member

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    Driver shortages today are due to driver sickness as well as a follow on from yesterday's disruptions.
     
  21. Scott M

    Scott M Member

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    Impressed with the track renewal work - Gateshead Stadium to Felling, which used to be notoriously bad for swaying side-to-side if sat at the front or back of the train, is now noticeably smoother. :)
     
  22. Arctic Troll

    Arctic Troll Established Member

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    And Sunday's driver shortages and shambolic RRB arrangements?

    The management simply have to go. But, like limpets, they cling to power and Nexus/NECA/whoever don't have the political will or political intellect to do anything about it.
     
  23. ModernRailways

    ModernRailways Established Member

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    They required more drivers than normal due to the engineering works, so it went out for overtime. One driver agreed to work it on overtime but nobody else came forward.
     
  24. AutoKratz

    AutoKratz Member

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    Any news on which of the shortlisted companies have bid to build the new Metro fleet?
     
  25. ModernRailways

    ModernRailways Established Member

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    You won't hear anything about that until it's all wrapped up as it's commercially sensitive information and will affect share prices etc.
     
  26. jkkne

    jkkne Member

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    If only there was some sort of planning involved...

    The compound at Felling doesn’t seem to be going anywhere. I’m guessing this will be supporting tunnel track replacement at Gateshead that nexus have briefly mentioned.

    On a side, South Shields Station is coming along very well. Exterior platform looks a bit cheaply done but the whole thing will be a huge improvement on what’s there now. Interesting to see how it handles the GNR queues without King St to use as a queuing system.
     

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