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Tyne & Wear Metro Fleet Replacement: Awarded to Stadler

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danielnez1

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I wonder if CRRC would make a bid for the new stock? Sure if they offer a bargain basement price it may be too good to refuse.
 

DanNCL

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I wonder if CRRC would make a bid for the new stock? Sure if they offer a bargain basement price it may be too good to refuse.
I doubt that price alone would convince Nexus to buy stock from China as opposed to buying from a manufacturer with a UK site (Bombardier, Hitachi, CAF or Alstom), or from a European manufacturer (Siemens and Stadler), though this is Nexus we're talking about here; they could do anything!
 

jkkne

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It really can’t come soon enough. Tonight was farcical.

Appreciate it was a major issue and happening at peak rush was unfortunate but the Southern part of the network collapsed. Communication online was ok, replacement buses came slowly but surely, local service buses were overwhelmed.

I boarded at four lane ends. We got kicked off at South Gosforth, driver apologised on tannoy and admitted he had no idea why the train was being removed. Boarded the follow up replacement where it then took 25 minutes to get from South Gosforth to Haymarket. Again driver apologised and said they weren’t sure why.
 

ModernRailways

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It really can’t come soon enough. Tonight was farcical.

Appreciate it was a major issue and happening at peak rush was unfortunate but the Southern part of the network collapsed. Communication online was ok, replacement buses came slowly but surely, local service buses were overwhelmed.

I boarded at four lane ends. We got kicked off at South Gosforth, driver apologised on tannoy and admitted he had no idea why the train was being removed. Boarded the follow up replacement where it then took 25 minutes to get from South Gosforth to Haymarket. Again driver apologised and said they weren’t sure why.

You have all the peak services. That’s why it took so long. You would’ve had around 6 services+ trying to get into the city centre. The network collapsed and as such all the trains were backed up. Sending more down would just add to it so that’s why your train would’ve been taken out of service and that’s the also the reason it would’ve took so long to get anywhere.

It’s still farcical, I’ve just got home from London and whilst there’s information people aren’t paying attention - 2 different trains neither driver announced the disruption that’s simply not good.
 

jkkne

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It seems the location of the train has caused problems. Metro beleaguered and probably mentally scarred twitter bod relayed control advised service would resume at 22.30. An hour later, and the train isn’t moving as they’d hope.

One thing I am curious about. Where do the army of candy crush playing customer ignoring gate attendants go to during disruption? They weren’t at Gateshead, Heworth or any central locations. A poor Churchill employed cleaner was directing folk at Gateshead.

Thank heavens for Go North East proactively stacking up extra 27s or I’d be forking out for a cab.
 

ModernRailways

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It seems the location of the train has caused problems. Metro beleaguered and probably mentally scarred twitter bod relayed control advised service would resume at 22.30. An hour later, and the train isn’t moving as they’d hope.

One thing I am curious about. Where do the army of candy crush playing customer ignoring gate attendants go to during disruption? They weren’t at Gateshead, Heworth or any central locations. A poor Churchill employed cleaner was directing folk at Gateshead.

Thank heavens for Go North East proactively stacking up extra 27s or I’d be forking out for a cab.

The train failed at Felling platform 2. The email I have stated they had moved one car and were hopeful the second could be moved shortly after. That unfortunately didn't happen.

Metro's army - 18 CSAs on an evening (at a push on some nights) - were at the stations. There was 2 at Haymarket, 3 at Monument, 3 at Central, 2 at Gateshead, and 2 at Heworth when I went through. Churchill were indeed also helping out at Gateshead.
 

142094

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If a train is going to fail, then Felling is actually quite a good station for it to fail at. Trains can be turned back at the two previous stations.

In the past if something failed you'd couple the train up and assist from behind. Now, due to the nature of the fault which keeps occuring, the brakes cannot be reset so the train cannot be assisted without the brakes being wound off. Also, if it is a seized traction motor gearbox, the OHL has to be isolated before a wheelskate can be used.
 

jkkne

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Overhead wires are down at Chichester. Nothing running Hebburn to South Shields.

Service hasn’t resumed tonight, though the closure eventually narrowed to Bede-Shields.

Metro twitter telling passengers a cable snapped. Forgive my lack of technical knowledge but this infrastructure failure seems to be causing more problems than the actual trains at the moment.
 

plcd1

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The formal procurement process has commenced for new trains for the Tyne and Wear Metro.

https://www.nexus.org.uk/news/item/nexus-starts-process-buying-new-metro-train-fleet

Nexus, the public body which owns and operates the Tyne and Wear Metro, has officially begun the process of buying a new train fleet – a £362m project which will transform the reliability of Metro services for passengers.

A tendering exercise has been launched in order to source a rolling stock supplier who will design and build the new Metro trains, which are scheduled to enter service at the end of 2021.

Nexus is expecting global interest in the contract, which is the biggest project in the history of the Tyne and Wear Metro system since it was built in the late 1970s.

The Government has committed £337m towards the cost of new train fleet, with a £25m contribution coming from Nexus.

The new Metro fleet, 84 carriages (42 trains) in total, will offer greater reliability while delivering improved comfort and convenience for passengers. Trains will have air conditioning, digital connectivity, phone charging points and a linear seat layout to create more space for wheelchairs, standing room and luggage.

A new maintenance depot will be built on the existing Metro depot site at Gosforth in Newcastle.

The commencement of the procurement process was given the green light by the North East Combined Authority’s Leadership Board on January 16.

Cllr Nick Forbes, Leader of Newcastle City Council and thematic lead for transport on the North East Combined Authority, said: “A reliable Metro service is absolutely vital and a new fleet of trains ensures that we can deliver that.

“Investment in new rolling stock was long overdue. Nexus are now in a position to crack on and purchase the new trains and get them built.

“This is the first step on the road to a bright new era for the Tyne and Wear Metro, a key public service that plays such a big part in so many people’s everyday lives.”

Managing Director of Nexus, Tobyn Hughes, said: “We are delighted to have been awarded the funding and now that we have approval from the Combined Authority we can get on with the job of buying the new trains.

“The trains that we will buy will transform the reliability of the Metro system, as well as reducing energy usage and updating the experience of travelling by Metro. We will also future-proof them so that they have the capability of serving more destinations on a wider network in the future.

“We are in the process of finalising the specification, and we have used extensive market research to inform the interior layout, for example by providing more standing room and space for luggage. We are really looking forward to seeing the designs that manufacturers come up with so that we can choose the best possible trains for our existing passengers and for future generations of Metro travellers.

“We expect the first trains to start arriving in late 2021.”

The procurement process starts with the publication of a formal notification in the Official Journal of the European Union (OJEU). This is the publication in which all tenders from the public sector which are valued above a certain financial threshold according to EU legislation, must be published.

Nexus anticipates that the bidders will be shortlisted by the late summer of this year.

The winning bidder will be announced in 2019.

The first new trains are expected to arrive from the end of 2021.

The new Metro trains will arrive in stages. As each new train arrives an old one will be removed from service.

Nexus expects it will take two years for from late 2021 to completely replace the existing Metro fleet.

A Fleet maintenance contract will come into operation during 2020, covering the existing as well as the new fleet.

For those who are far more up to date than me on Metro matters how on earth can 42 new 2 car EMUs replace 90 old style Metrocars? Is a substantial proportion of the existing fleet out of service or are service levels so low now that only half the fleet is required for service? Seems a woefully small fleet size for the future.
 

Bletchleyite

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Wikilies suggests that it's actually 84 articulated trainsets, not 42. So just a badly worded release.

I assume there are depot reasons for this rather than ordering longer trains to run singly.
 

hacman

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The options that are being looked at are either:

84 2-car units, at ~30m each
or
42 4-car units, at ~60m each

Obviously, there is a chance that a prospective bidder may suggest a 6 or 8 car unit at ~60m, with 'micro-cars' to help the new design meet the curve radius requirements, and they're free to do so, as long as whatever is proposed is equivalent to the above options.

The tender announcement mentions rebuilding the Gosforth depot, so it would seem that options for a new location are now excluded.

No mention of new signaling, which is odd seeing that Nexus always maintained that it would be procured hand-in-hand with the new fleet. Maybe new signaling has been shelved totally due to the costs.

They aim to have the first train from the new fleet running in December 2021, which accounting for delays may easily be Q1 2022. This likely means that the majority of the current fleet will still be running at the end of 2022.
 

plcd1

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Wikilies suggests that it's actually 84 articulated trainsets, not 42. So just a badly worded release.

I assume there are depot reasons for this rather than ordering longer trains to run singly.

You are correct. Having done some digging for the meeting papers of the North East Combined Authority I eventually found the relevant paper for Metrocar replacement.

https://www.northeastca.gov.uk/site...ership Board 16 January 2018, Agenda Pack.pdf

See page 130 onwards. I don't really want to quote 14 pages from a large official paper so I hope the mods will forgive this small forum rule breach.

It does say 84 units or 42 trains (of 4 car or equivalent capacity). There is also some discussion around the specification, system constraints, maintenance proposals and the depot redevelopment. Looks like the old depot at South Gosforth will be demolished entirely and replaced over a 5 year period - looks like I will need to get up there and take some photos. Part of the fleet will have to be outstabled for maintenance purposes to as yet unspecified locations during the redevelopment. That's going to be fun! There are also some interesting traction / running capabilities that Nexus are considering - makes me wonder if we will see "off wire" Metro trains to Blyth or Ashington.
 

MetroCar4058

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There are also some interesting traction / running capabilities that Nexus are considering - makes me wonder if we will see "off wire" Metro trains to Blyth or Ashington.

Outstabling of rolling stock shouldn’t be a major issue, with the new facility at South Shields providing some capacity with maintenance facilities, and St James being able to hold 8 cars, there is a good degree of flexibility across the system, although this could threaten reliably. As far as I’m aware, the Northumberland line is planned as a NR route, not Metro. Personally, we must remember Metro is a light rail system, with a high frequency service, it should not be the local branding for regional rail services, like to Ashington.
 

edwin_m

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Outstabling of rolling stock shouldn’t be a major issue, with the new facility at South Shields providing some capacity with maintenance facilities, and St James being able to hold 8 cars, there is a good degree of flexibility across the system, although this could threaten reliably. As far as I’m aware, the Northumberland line is planned as a NR route, not Metro. Personally, we must remember Metro is a light rail system, with a high frequency service, it should not be the local branding for regional rail services, like to Ashington.
There's an article in February's Modern Railways confirming that the preference is to have through heavy rail service to Newcastle to give a faster journey time. The scheme includes a Metro interchange station at Northumberland Park.
 

hacman

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Personally, we must remember Metro is a light rail system, with a high frequency service, it should not be the local branding for regional rail services, like to Ashington.

I’m not sure why this is the case.

Metro is light rail by some definitions, and a heavy inter-urban / S-Bahn system by others.

Better integration between Metro and local rail services is a repeated missed opportunity. Northern and it’s earlier incarnations has never had a strong brand in the greater Tyne and Wear region, with many people unaware services exist, or automatically discounting them due to perceived high cost.

Branding services between Morpeth, Hexham, Seaham and maybe Durham as “Northern Metro” or similar and offering proper through ticketing would be a great way to stimulate passenger numbers, and get people to consider journey routes and combinations they never would have thought of.

A prime example is the service between Newcastle Central and Metrocentre - trains upto every 15 minutes, faster and with more capacity than the bus, and many of them run more or less empty!
 

Tetchytyke

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A prime example is the service between Newcastle Central and Metrocentre - trains upto every 15 minutes, faster and with more capacity than the bus, and many of them run more or less empty!

That's more an issue with the bus companies than the branding of the MetroCentre shuttle though. Nexus inter-operator tickets are valid as far as Blaydon (although the Explorer is not). The issue is that a lot of people use operator-specific bus tickets. You won't pay for the train if your Stagecoach Megarider will get you there, no matter what branding it has.
 

hacman

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That's more an issue with the bus companies than the branding of the MetroCentre shuttle though. Nexus inter-operator tickets are valid as far as Blaydon (although the Explorer is not). The issue is that a lot of people use operator-specific bus tickets. You won't pay for the train if your Stagecoach Megarider will get you there, no matter what branding it has.

It's not really an issue with the bus companies - they just bothered to advertise their services.

The Northern rail routes are not shown on the Metro map, little to no information is given about them at Metro stations (though for some reason Gateshead got a large amount of X66 branding a few years back), and many people don't even know about Transfare tickets, let alone that they can be used on rail as well as Metro and bus. As for Explorer tickets not being accepted, that's even more daft - day trippers are the exact kind of people that could be easily attracted to routes like the Tyne Valley line.

The NetworkOne tickets are good, but there are still quite a number of people who don't really know they can be used on any service between Newcastle and Metrocentre. You've then got the fact they don't work in the barriers at Newcastle Central - having to find an attendant whenever you pass through the station is a pain, especially if you are unlucky enough to time your visit to coincide with a busy Intercity service arriving.

I used to work near the Metrocentre, and lost count of the number of people I worked with or spoke to over the years who when they found I took the train would reply with "Isn't that really expensive?", "Aren't there only a few each day?" or other similar things. Some were actually using a NetworkOne ticket to travel by Metro, then switch to the X66 or 100 (two people were actually taking Metro from Sunderland and Heworth respectively to change at Gateshead onto a bus!). They were amazed when they found out the train was an option, and made the switch.

The fact of the matter is that this is a prime example of a route that many people don't consider when planning a journey - because it's not advertised and it's not properly integrated.

To fix this, all that is required is:
  • Put it on the map - show Blaydon - Newcastle - Sunderland / Manors as a purple line on the Metro map. Arrows at the edges with "To...." so that onward destinations are shown.
  • Make Metro/NetworkOne tickets and Pop cards work in the barriers at Newcastle Central, and make National Rail tickets work in the barriers on Metro stations. Ensure that Northern conductors can either read Pop cards, or that a paper counterpart can be obtained from Nexus ticket machines, instead of having to go to the Travelshop.
  • Add a button on Metro ticket machines that automatically issues the correct ticket for travel from that station to Metrocentre and other stations.
    • Longer term work towards putting these stations within Metro's fare structure (Zone B for Metrocentre, Zone C for Blaydon, etc).
    • Longer term work to add Explorer tickets into the structure, in addition to Seaham, Cramlington/Morpeth and all stations to Hexham.
  • Place a "Local departures" board on the concourse and at the top of the escalators in Newcastle Central.
    • Longer term work towards branding the National Rail and Metro stations at Newcastle Central, Heworth and Sunderland as single entities, with contiguous platform numbers and way-finding.
These things would lead to increased patronage, which could be used in the future to justify the extensions to Metro that Nexus would like to see!
 

MetroCar4058

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Hacman, I do agree with the increasing of integration between Metro and Northern, although I wouldn't go as far as adding the shuttle to the Metro map as they are not integrated and that would cause major ticketing headaches with confused passengers believing that their ticket is valid at to Metro Centre or Blaydon. They would probably fall under the zone B category on current on train maps and therefore a major redesign would be required.

Make Metro/NetworkOne tickets and Pop cards work in the barriers at Newcastle Central, and make National Rail tickets work in the barriers on Metro stations. Ensure that Northern conductors can either read Pop cards, or that a paper counterpart can be obtained from Nexus ticket machines, instead of having to go to the Travelshop.

I agree with the ability to print a paper ticket companion to the Pop Card at any TVM, this would of course require the Pop Card number on the ticket and clearly expressed dates to ensure fare evasion doesn't occur, this must also only be valid on local rail services and subject to a penalty fare without provision of said pop card on the Metro network.
Integration of smart card systems is something the new TfN body is investigating; I'm not particularly sure if smart ticketing across the whole of the North is really beneficial or desirable when there are much bigger key challenges to tackle. I'm also assuming the barriers issue is probably quite technical and hard to do, but I'm no engineer! I do also wonder why Nexus doesn't have TVMs (or utilises) the smart card dispensing ability of the S&B machines; this would probably be much more influential in the uptake of PPAYG.

Longer term work towards branding the National Rail and Metro stations at Newcastle Central, Heworth and Sunderland as single entities, with contiguous platform numbers and way-finding.
I'd say with almost certainty that this will never happen, current signage at the stations is sufficient and a coherent branding throughout the station seems rather pointless, I also don't see the gains in integrated platform numbers.

For me, the issue with Northern rail is the fact its branding has quite a poor reputation and their provision of local services is limited; people want quick and convenient and trains that aren't well past their sell by date and haven't even had a vanity refurbishment in attempt to hide this. The bus services between Newcastle and MetroCentre are in much more convenient locations for people and the bus services have a strong reputation, as well as outcompeting in terms of value for money if using other services to travel. As Northern begins to improve its brand image with its new rolling stock, and Metro consolidates its current operations with the new rolling stock, something must be reviewed in attempt to improve services to the MetroCentre, either through integration of the services or an actual Metro based solution.
 

hacman

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Hacman, I do agree with the increasing of integration between Metro and Northern, although I wouldn't go as far as adding the shuttle to the Metro map as they are not integrated and that would cause major ticketing headaches with confused passengers believing that their ticket is valid at to Metro Centre or Blaydon. They would probably fall under the zone B category on current on train maps and therefore a major redesign would be required.

Graphic design changes which are utterly trivial to do - the Shields Ferry is on the map and has a note that it requries certain tickets. Besides, the long-term goal should be to integrate these services.

I agree with the ability to print a paper ticket companion to the Pop Card at any TVM, this would of course require the Pop Card number on the ticket and clearly expressed dates to ensure fare evasion doesn't occur, this must also only be valid on local rail services and subject to a penalty fare without provision of said pop card on the Metro network.

Again, trivial to do. A small software change at the most. Clear indication on the ticket that it is only a counterpart, and valid only when accompanied by the associated Pop card solves any issues here.

Integration of smart card systems is something the new TfN body is investigating; I'm not particularly sure if smart ticketing across the whole of the North is really beneficial or desirable when there are much bigger key challenges to tackle. I'm also assuming the barriers issue is probably quite technical and hard to do, but I'm no engineer! I do also wonder why Nexus doesn't have TVMs (or utilises) the smart card dispensing ability of the S&B machines; this would probably be much more influential in the uptake of PPAYG.

The barriers issue does present a challenge, but both these systems are new, and it was supposedly a part of the specification. Nexus responded for a long time saying that inter-operation would be part of the new ticket machine project, but it never happened. If London Underground and National Rail can make this work, the powers that be up here can too.

These systems are ITSO compliant, and as such there should already be the foundations of provision for this functionality present.

Sadly the whole NESTI project is nothing short of a disastrous waste of tax-payer money. You've just got to look at the fact that you need separate cards for PAYG and Season Tickets to see how badly implemented it all is. Smart ticketing across the whole of the north is a great idea, if properly implemented on-top of an integrated system. Proper implementation and consistent integration are both absent.

I'd say with almost certainty that this will never happen, current signage at the stations is sufficient and a coherent branding throughout the station seems rather pointless, I also don't see the gains in integrated platform numbers.

It creates an integrated system. If you want to encourage people to travel, you need to make changes feel seamless. Consistent branding helps with this. Consistent platform numbers also means that announcements and directions can be given in a simple way, which assists with this.

This doesn't need to be a case of the same paint colors throughout the entire station, instead just ensure that signage is consistent in terms of the nomenclature and iconography used, and that stations are named the same on both sides, e.g. "Newcastle Central" instead of both "Central Station" and "Newcastle".

For me, the issue with Northern rail is the fact its branding has quite a poor reputation and their provision of local services is limited; people want quick and convenient and trains that aren't well past their sell by date and haven't even had a vanity refurbishment in attempt to hide this. The bus services between Newcastle and MetroCentre are in much more convenient locations for people and the bus services have a strong reputation, as well as outcompeting in terms of value for money if using other services to travel. As Northern begins to improve its brand image with its new rolling stock, and Metro consolidates its current operations with the new rolling stock, something must be reviewed in attempt to improve services to the MetroCentre, either through integration of the services or an actual Metro based solution.

You have awareness of the services, most people don't, or certainly not enough to know what the rolling stock is like. If passenger numbers go up, then refurbishment and even new rolling stock starts to become more viable. Provision of local services can be expanded when demand is proven, and rising passenger numbers on existing routes is a good way to show this. Metro (WYPTE) and Merseytravel have helped fund refurbishment of Northern rolling stock in their areas in the past, and this was largely successful. The difference between Nexus and these other organisations is that Nexus bothers very little with engaging Northern, other operators and the DfT.

The bus services will always be more convenient than the train for some - but this is true of Metro also. Yet people still use it. Rail offers speed benefits that bus routes struggle to match, and also lacks the social stigma that is still to this day present with bus travel. The bus services have the reputation they have recently earned because of advertising and response to passenger needs and demand.

I STRONGLY disagree that the time to look at integration is after the new rolling stock. For one, there will always be a case of "we'll look at it after 'x'", and secondly, the service will have both the opportunity to redefine its self when new stock arrives, and the public exposure to showcase this too - it's literally the best time to showcase better integration and improvement.
 

Tetchytyke

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The POP scheme is a whole different level of imbecilic. I have three different POP cards- one PAYG, one season, one corporate season. And that's before we think about the (lack of) integrated capping across different modes. Nexus couldn't even get the POP PAYG day all zones Metro cap to include ferry travel, so if you're going on the (fully integrated) ferry you're better off with a paper DaySaver.

As for the train, my (controversial) view is the MetroCentre shuttle is a waste of units, crew and money. I don't see it adds anything the bus doesn't. The purpose and the custom for the shuttle went when the Sunderland line mostly switched to Metro. Running the Morpeth stoppers through makes sense on a marginal cost basis, but that's it. The train is a bit faster to Central, although there's not that much in it compared to the 10, but if you're not off to Central (say, Eldon Square) the bus wins hands down.
 

hacman

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The POP scheme is a whole different level of imbecilic. I have three different POP cards- one PAYG, one season, one corporate season. And that's before we think about the (lack of) integrated capping across different modes. Nexus couldn't even get the POP PAYG day all zones Metro cap to include ferry travel, so if you're going on the (fully integrated) ferry you're better off with a paper DaySaver.

As for the train, my (controversial) view is the MetroCentre shuttle is a waste of units, crew and money. I don't see it adds anything the bus doesn't. The purpose and the custom for the shuttle went when the Sunderland line mostly switched to Metro. Running the Morpeth stoppers through makes sense on a marginal cost basis, but that's it. The train is a bit faster to Central, although there's not that much in it compared to the 10, but if you're not off to Central (say, Eldon Square) the bus wins hands down.

The 100 takes 15 minutes, and the X66 takes 10. This is often more in the rush hour, and at Christmas, bank holidays, school holidays and other times the traffic around Metrocentre adds more time on. The train takes about 7 minutes, even accounting for a speed restriction in Dunston. This time could be reduced further when new stock comes.

The train is also better suited for people with luggage and shopping, offers a smoother ride (even on a 142 with the exception of a few sets of points) and with refurbished stock can easily cater better to disabled passengers, those with kids and strollers, and groups.

The interiors of the trains while tired, are at least on par in terms of comfort with busses. The only exception to this is when the odd remaining bench-seat fitted 142 is used.

The services are currently a waste, as they are not promoted. But to say they offer no improvement on the bus is just not true.
 

markydh

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No local person will use the train given they can’t use their bus tickets on it. It will never compete with the myriad of services. If you live in Newcastle and use public transport, your day ticket or megarider gets you on the 100 at no extra cost. The 100 uses a more central stop in the city centre, as well as a stop at Central Station. If you’re from North Tyneside, you can get through fares on Go North East services. If you’re from Northumberland, then it’s more complicated but given all the buses from there terminate in the north of the city centre at Haymarket, it’s still an unrealistic hike down to the station. The bus will always outcompete the train for locals. No amount of promotion will change that.
 

hacman

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No local person will use the train given they can’t use their bus tickets on it. It will never compete with the myriad of services. If you live in Newcastle and use public transport, your day ticket or megarider gets you on the 100 at no extra cost. The 100 uses a more central stop in the city centre, as well as a stop at Central Station. If you’re from North Tyneside, you can get through fares on Go North East services. If you’re from Northumberland, then it’s more complicated but given all the buses from there terminate in the north of the city centre at Haymarket, it’s still an unrealistic hike down to the station. The bus will always outcompete the train for locals. No amount of promotion will change that.

Your Stagecoach ticket gets you on the 100 at no extra cost. Those who use Metro rather than busses in the region are not tied in like that. Most of them also get a train into Newcastle that goes through Central.

I’m not suggesting it’s going to get everyone off the bus. I’m suggesting it could get more use than it does now, and pave the way for other inprovements. And this route is only one that this method could be applied to.

People who already travel purely by bus are not the primary target market here. Metro passengers traveling to rail destinations, and people in those destination areas traveling onwards using Metro are.

And as for “no local person will use the train”, that’s just not the case. I did for many years, a few other regular faces on my commute did, and a good number of coworkers made the switch when they were told they could.
 

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