Tyne & Wear Metro Fleet Replacement: Awarded to Stadler

[Tetchytyke]

And as for “no local person will use the train”, that’s just not the case. I did for many years, a few other regular faces on my commute did, and a good number of coworkers made the switch when they were told they could.

Whenever I've been on the MetroCentre shuttle there's been a handful of people on it. The 100 and the selection of Go-Ahead buses into Newcastle have all been full.

It really depends where you're going and where you've come from. If you're heading to the main shopping in Newcastle city centre then the bus beats the train, because you don't get the trek across the station and then up Grainger Street. If you're heading to the Central Station area then the train wins, although truthfully the Go-Ahead 10/45/46/47 aren't much slower. If you're changing off Metro to get to the MetroCentre then the easiest interchange is at Gateshead on to the X66.

I agree that Northern- and it should be Northern, really- should do more to promote the fact that their £2.80 off-peak return Newcastle-MetroCentre is really very good value, it's about a pound cheaper than the equivalent tickets on Go-Ahead and Stagecoach. I do use the train- I have a Metro season ticket, no buses- for that very reason. Although the evening service is poor enough to discourage use.

 

[markydh]

The service is also being cut. There will be 3 services an hour from May. At xx05, xx20-25 and xx55 (from Newcastle). In other words, a dogs dinner that will do nothing to encourage usage. The xx05 and xx20-25 are the Carlisle fast and slow, with the xx55 being the metrocentre terminator. In other words, the cut is Northern’s solution to extending the Hexham terminator to Carlisle without using extra units.

 

[Tetchytyke]

2x Carlisle and 1x Morpeth. I'd say that makes sense. The Carlisle stopper is a much better use of the unit and crew.

Anyway, back to Metro...

Metro branding on heavy rail services outside of Tyne and Wear would be a mess. That's not what Metro is. They need to focus on what they do before worrying about white-labelling other services.

 

[markydh]

2x Carlisle and 1x Morpeth. I'd say that makes sense. The Carlisle stopper is a much better use of the unit and crew.

It's a little more complicated than that. A unit does Morpeth to Carlisle then Carlisle to Middlesbrough (and beyond) then Middlesbrough (and beyond) to Metrocentre then Metrocentre to Morpeth. And repeat (if there's time). The fast seems to stay on the Newcastle to Carlisle route for most of the day. It's a more efficient use of stock but it does mean that there's 3 services from Newcastle in 25 - 30 minutes then nothing for 30 - 35 minutes. It's not terribly user friendly.

 

[Kryten2340]

Didn't Metro want to tunnel through from the Central Station Metro concourse to platforms 5-8 in the mainline station but weren't given permission?

 

[MetroCar4058]

Didn't Metro want to tunnel through from the Central Station Metro concourse to platforms 5-8 in the mainline station but weren't given permission?

I understand that this is being considered as part of a plan to upgrade the mainline station and opening up a south side entrance.

Looks like Metro are struggling for stock again at the moment; does anyone know is this due to a themed fault or just unlucky failures of varying components?

 

[142094]

Be the same components that fail all the time, usually traction motors and gearboxes. Not going to get any better in the next few years.

 

[MetroCar4058]

With the fleet having to survive at least another 4 years, what do we think on the possibility of Metro deploying single units at quiet times, such as during the day or on the odd RGC-PLW short work. Obviously this couldn't be a standard practice, but I'd imagine that every other airport service could get away with a single say in the late evening. I'd personally not like to see this, nor would I imagine it happening or even being considered unless the trains take a greater turn for the worse and availability is at a low for the long term.
Thoughts?

 

[DanNCL]

With the fleet having to survive at least another 4 years, what do we think on the possibility of Metro deploying single units at quiet times, such as during the day or on the odd RGC-PLW short work. Obviously this couldn't be a standard practice, but I'd imagine that every other airport service could get away with a single say in the late evening. I'd personally not like to see this, nor would I imagine it happening or even being considered unless the trains take a greater turn for the worse and availability is at a low for the long term.
Thoughts?

I was on a service from the airport just after 22:00 the other night that was packed. The service does need both carriages. Perhaps single units may work early mornings or after the last flight arrival at the airport in the evening though. But then come to think of it passengers would rather see a short formed metro than no metro at all.

 

[ModernRailways]

Simply put no, single carriage working will be massively unlikely to happen unless there was an increase in frequency per hour. Having two carriages coupled together also goes a long way to ensuring delays due to faults are kept to a minimum as there is always a backup metrocar. There’s also the time involved with uncoupling units and then once uncoupled what happens, they need to make their way back to the depot somehow and well Nexus are very very skint right now so don’t expect too much meaningful recruitment or for them to pay for more drivers to take those carriages back to the depot.

We will see changes to the timetable being made (as has already happened), with less services operating on the whole.

We don’t currently have enough units available for the current peak service level (one day last week we just managed to make the normal off peak timetable work) so the future is going to be interesting.

 

[142094]

With the fleet having to survive at least another 4 years, what do we think on the possibility of Metro deploying single units at quiet times, such as during the day or on the odd RGC-PLW short work. Obviously this couldn't be a standard practice, but I'd imagine that every other airport service could get away with a single say in the late evening. I'd personally not like to see this, nor would I imagine it happening or even being considered unless the trains take a greater turn for the worse and availability is at a low for the long term.
Thoughts?

Control and fleet don't like running single cars as for most faults it is game over if one fails. When it is a two car set, the other car is able to provide all the air and traction power to at least get the train to the next station or into a siding.

 

[Chris M]

Simply put no, single carriage working will be massively unlikely to happen unless there was an increase in frequency per hour. Having two carriages coupled together also goes a long way to ensuring delays due to faults are kept to a minimum as there is always a backup metrocar. There’s also the time involved with uncoupling units and then once uncoupled what happens, they need to make their way back to the depot somehow and well Nexus are very very skint right now so don’t expect too much meaningful recruitment or for them to pay for more drivers to take those carriages back to the depot.

It will also increase the wear on the couplers. I don't know how significant this is for the Metro fleet but it's apparently a big issue for the DLR units that are regularly reformed (partly as many of the roads at Poplar depot aren't long enough for three car trains). Even if the couplers are working as they did when new I can't imagine them being too keen to introduce another potential failure mode unnecessarily.

 

[Tetchytyke]

Airport-Haymarket could cope with a single car, but Haymarket-Sunderland couldn't, even in the late evening. Likewise Pelaw-South Shields could but the Coast loop couldn't.

So there'd be no point.

 

[DanNCL]

Airport-Haymarket could cope with a single car, but Haymarket-Sunderland couldn't, even in the late evening. Likewise Pelaw-South Shields could but the Coast loop couldn't.

So there'd be no point.

In that case could the solution be to go back to the pre-2005 routes; with two-car sets operating St James - South Hylton, and single-car sets operating Airport - South Shields?

 

[ModernRailways]

In that case could the solution be to go back to the pre-2005 routes; with two-car sets operating St James - South Hylton, and single-car sets operating Airport - South Shields?

The core route going south of the river would have barely enough capacity with just single cars, even on a late evening. Trains between Newcastle and Heworth are generally well loaded, Heworth to Jarrow does relatively well too, but Jarrow to South Shields is less travelled but as is the case when you start to reach the end of the line. Heworth to Sunderland is generally well loaded throughout. Sunderland to South Hylton can be dead.
North of the river, Newcastle to West Jesmond is well loaded, West Jesmond to The Coast (via Four Lane Ends) is generally well loaded, West Jesmond to Kingston Park has a relatively decent load but could get away with single car, Kingston Park to Airport is usually dead. Newcastle to The Coast (via Byker) is generally well loaded too.

Heading into Newcastle is obviously much quieter, but trains are still generally well loaded heading into Newcastle until around 8/9pm, then after that most of the people going into town are coming from the north side (usually West Jesmond adds a lot of pax heading into Newcastle, Regent Centre often adds a decent number of people too).

 

[Kite159]

Silly question, before I go waste a morning this coming Monday are 4002 & 4043 on the "currently working" pile?

 

[ModernRailways]

Silly question, before I go waste a morning this coming Monday are 4002 & 4043 on the "currently working" pile?

4002 was broken last I checked (Thursday). Not too sure about the others though.

 

[DanNCL]

Does anyone have a list of units that are currently out of action?

 

[ModernRailways]

It changes daily really so there’s no complete list but we do have a few units out of action long term with one likely never to return to service and be scrapped. If you tweet at Metro in the morning then they may be able to help you out.

 

[DanNCL]

we do have a few units out of action long term with one likely never to return to service and be scrapped

I'm guessing that'll be 4022?

I've not seen 4001 in service since 2016, though with it's recent repaint I'd be surprised if it was due to be withdrawn yet.

 

[Kite159]

4002 was broken last I checked (Thursday). Not too sure about the others though.

Ta, was hoping 4002 had been patched up again after its last break down

 

[142094]

The allocation of cars to enter service is done around 2-3am so no-one knows what train will run which service until then, plus it can change very quickly if a train that has s fault isn't fixed in time or a driver gets on a train in the morning to prep it and it develops a fault.

 

[MetroCar4058]

Saw a photo of 4046, just above the coupling device there was a plaque stating ‘BLS’ can someone tell me what that is please? Never came across it before.

 

[ModernRailways]

Saw a photo of 4046, just above the coupling device there was a plaque stating ‘BLS’ can someone tell me what that is please? Never came across it before.

It was for a railtour that operated on Sunday around the Metro network taking in various sidings as well as the Manors curve.

 

[MetroCar4058]

It was for a railtour that operated on Sunday around the Metro network taking in various sidings as well as the Manors curve.

Thank you, very interesting! Quite a nice gesture unless it was for commercial purpose?

 

[ModernRailways]

Thank you, very interesting! Quite a nice gesture unless it was for commercial purpose?

For charity.

 

[tynesider]

Apologies if this isn't newsworthy - Can't see any similar mention, but 4001 is in service today - Paired with (I think!) 4040

It was on the back end of a Pelaw-bound service, around 0825 through Monument.

 

[MetroCar4058]

Not in the region at the minute but it appears that Metro and other transport providers have been doing a fantastic job against the odds. Great to see lots of positive feedback knocking about out there; times like this highlight the dedication of staff to provide a good service.

 

[jkkne]

Not in the region at the minute but it appears that Metro and other transport providers have been doing a fantastic job against the odds. Great to see lots of positive feedback knocking about out there; times like this highlight the dedication of staff to provide a good service.

Metro PR Team must see this week as a gift from the heavens!

Aged fleet, aged infrastructure, completely collapses under 6 inches of snow and metro becomes the hero of the north east public transport as buses fall to the weather.

Of course, a day later, buses return to normal and metro introduces an emergency 30 minute frequency with frankly dangerous overcrowding in parts and metro is still hailed a local hero.

Not a metro ken or metro apologises in sight. Genius

 

[ModernRailways]

Metro PR Team must see this week as a gift from the heavens!

Aged fleet, aged infrastructure, completely collapses under 6 inches of snow and metro becomes the hero of the north east public transport as buses fall to the weather.

Of course, a day later, buses return to normal and metro introduces an emergency 30 minute frequency with frankly dangerous overcrowding in parts and metro is still hailed a local hero.

Not a metro ken or metro apologises in sight. Genius

The 30 minute frequency is due to the cold and we have been putting in extra trains where we can. The fleet has been massively struggling to cope and trains are being rotated throughout the day. Buses mainly messed up because they serve estates and so were sticking to main roads, we were getting very heavy snowfall after 8/9pm so even main roads where becoming dangerous. Better to stop the buses running for the safety of staff, as much as pax. Metro is a totally different ball game.

Some of us in the background have been doing longer shifts just to keep everything moving, but we've been massively struggling, the 30 minute frequency helps with that as things are less likely to go wrong and we can monitor everything a lot better, trains also don't get as clogged when it does go wrong as was shown on Wednesday.

It hasn't just been 6 inches of snow, it's been the freezing cold, most days we've only just been reaching 0c. With the wind chill the temperature feels more like -7c, and lower in some cases.

The overcrowding was an issue but employers must learn to take the advice of police and weather agencies, especially when it's obvious the weather is really bad, and tell staff not to come in. A friend of mine works in the retail sector and they've been in every day and they've been lucky to see more 30-50 customers throughout the day. It'd be cheaper for some shops to still pay their staff but tell them not to come in. The electricity bill they have just for powering the displays will far outweigh what they've been making in the day from customers so what's the point in forcing these people into work unnecessarily.