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Uber taxis

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jon0844

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Uber has the money to get rid of the competition, but I can only say that once local buses are cut here next month, taxi firms currently doing a flat rate fare within the town are planning to go back to changing off the meter.
 
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Blindtraveler

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A new PR disaster for them today with the Metro and others reporting that drivers are refusing guidedogs. On phone so cant link but maybe someone else can?

The world of visual impairment has long faught for dogs to be accepted in PHVs and although there are still provlems its less than half the battle it was so this is unwelcome given how much smartphone technology has leveled the playingfield when traveling
 

miami

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A new PR disaster for them today with the Metro and others reporting that drivers are refusing guidedogs. On phone so cant link but maybe someone else can?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-32395883
21 April 2015
The ride-sharing firm, Uber is being taken to court over allegations that its drivers are discriminating against people with visual impairment.
The National Federation for the Blind of California is one of those bringing the case which cites at least 40 instances where drivers have refused to carry guide dogs.

Hardly a disaster, it was happening last year in the states and Uber haven't suffered.

Here's something from today in London:

http://www.standard.co.uk/news/lond...rivers-because-of-her-guide-dog-a3228431.html
A blind woman is spearheading a campaign against Uber drivers after being repeatedly snubbed because she has a guide dog.

Jade Sharp, 23, said some drivers for the hire firm cancel pick-ups when they learn that her five-year-old golden retriever Brodie will be coming along.

Four Uber drivers have been found guilty of breaching equality laws after Transport for London prosecutions based on her evidence, and four more cases are still to be heard.

The latest driver to be convicted was Mohamed Mohamoud, 51, of Tulse Hill, who was told to pay £1,546 in fines and costs at Hammersmith magistrates’ court.
....
An Uber spokesman apologised and said Mohamoud no longer works for the firm. “Whilst the drivers on the Uber platform are self-employed we remind them of their legal obligation to take service animals before they can start driving,” he said.

So drivers are acting illegally, are being found guilty, and being fined and fired.
 

Blindtraveler

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Its still a PR disaster for their brand given how they strive to prove how different they are and in many cases more affordable compared to similar options

Whilst prosicutions are welcome its only London/TFL who gives a stuff about it and makes one wonder how many drivers in other areas are getting away with it?
 

miami

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And how does it differ from a local minicab driver that refuses to take guidedogs?
 

jon0844

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Is it a PR disaster? It seems a lot of people today are quite happy to let standards slide if they can get a cheaper deal. It doesn't really matter if drivers get a worse deal, while a few people taking a nice cut become VERY rich out of it (oh the irony as so many people complain about huge corporations making money, but if it's a 'small' start up it's fine).

We've had years to implement tighter controls and rules to better things for everyone, but now we have a firm that can bend the rules and always has the advantage of saying that it has dealt with things by sacking the driver and it won't happen again.

Does that really solve the problem?

As for local minicab services, well surely that's just as bad and requires reporting/enforcement. That's another problem in itself, and I know that locally we have poor enforcement and seemingly the operators of at least one very large cab firm running rings around the council that is short on staff and budget.
 

miami

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As for local minicab services, well surely that's just as bad and requires reporting/enforcement. That's another problem in itself, and I know that locally we have poor enforcement and seemingly the operators of at least one very large cab firm running rings around the council that is short on staff and budget.

Isn't it exactly the same thing. Uber are a minicab firm, so are your local firm. At least with Uber they're more likely to fire the driver.

<i>It doesn't really matter if drivers get a worse deal</i>
The uber drivers I've talked to prefer uber to the local firm as they make more money.

If local minicab firms in cities that Uber hasn't arrived at got their finger out and changed their model to fit the new reality (Like Speedline in Milton Keynes), then perhaps Uber would struggle to move in.

I want to be able to
1) Order a minicab without having to explain what road I want the cab from
2) Not worry about having to pay, negotiate with the driver, do you take card, etc
3) Know when it's coming, where it is, see it's stuck in traffic, etc - not have to ring up and ask someone who then trying to radio the minicab, or simply states with "he's just round the corner" 5 minutes after the booked time.
4) Have an estimate on the cost up front
5) Get a nice receipt for end-of-month expenses
6) Know that the satnav will take me to the destination without having to give directions
7) Pay minicab rates for better-than-minicab service
8) Have the firm obey all the laws they need to obey

Both london taxi drivers, and taxis and minicabs elsewhere, fail miserably in almost all of these areas. Uber provide people with what they want, and the lack of competition is concerning, but people will use services that provide what they want.
 

telstarbox

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Paul's list above is what a lot of passengers are after. If you were going to design a taxi service today from scratch you'd end up with something much nearer to Uber than the black cab system.
 

PermitToTravel

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I want to be able to
1) Order a minicab without having to explain what road I want the cab from

I thought I'd try a large incumbent non-Uber minicab firm recently. I was on a street corner, and able to give my location either by the names of the roads or their numbers - but the call taker insisted that they could only send cars to buildings, not street corners, and demanded a postcode. :roll:
 

EM2

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7) Pay minicab rates for better-than-minicab service
I'd like to pay McDonald's rates for better-than-McDonald's service, but that's not generally how business works.
If it does, it means someone is losing out somewhere.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
I thought I'd try a large incumbent non-Uber minicab firm recently. I was on a street corner, and able to give my location either by the names of the roads or their numbers - but the call taker insisted that they could only send cars to buildings, not street corners, and demanded a postcode. :roll:
So walk around the corner and stand outside a building.
 

jon0844

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Uber, Deliveroo and other new startups all seem to be making great money, and the consumer is loving it.

By the time they realise the potential damage (like pushing other services out of business, then the prices will rise accordingly) it will be too late. It's like seeing what happened when the big supermarkets came in and killed local trade, and then the impact of retail parks, followed by Internet shopping and how the battle for cheap goods is now making delivery drivers work for 20-30p a delivery and people in warehouses being timed to the second for picking.

But, hey, we don't complain as long as we save money!
 

miami

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I'd like to pay McDonald's rates for better-than-McDonald's service, but that's not generally how business works.
If it does, it means someone is losing out somewhere.

Uber manage it just fine, and the uber drivers I talk to think they're getting a better deal than with their previous minicab firms.

I don't believe Uber are subsidising their UK operation either, in fact the argument seems to be they take more and more of a cut. Why can't Speedline do the same thing, but instead of taking a 25% cut take a 5% cut, pay the drivers 10% more, and charge the passenger 10% less?

However I don't see anyone offering any of the other benefits of Uber on a grand scale (or on a local scale), instead I see the typical head-in-sand mentality we've seen so many times in industries before they are destroyed.

Unlike say steel, the running costs to create a new minicab firm is tiny, so if Uber did do away with competition and jack the prices up, it wouldn't be for long. A few students could build an uber-style app over the summer holidays, and then all you need are the drivers, which minicab firms can get together pretty quickly and cheaply (£500/person plus car). Aim it at students to start with, then build from there, you may even be able to get students driving the cars.
 

EM2

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Uber manage it just fine, and the uber drivers I talk to think they're getting a better deal than with their previous minicab firms.
There are plenty that don't feel the same:
http://www.buzzfeed.com/johanabhuiyan/uber-drivers-are-protesting#.kyz76MP76
Uber drivers gathered outside of Uber’s Long Island City offices on Monday to protest the low fares.
A group of Uber drivers, who say they number about a thousand, are attempting to organize a strike against the booming taxi company over complaints of falling fares and unfair working conditions.
The drivers, who are mostly comprised of SUV and black car drivers, have planned a protest outside of the Long Island City Uber Office on Monday morning after refusing to drive for the service — and in some cases, switching to rival Lyft — Thursday, Friday and Saturday. This is the second protest the group, called Uber Drivers Network NYC, will be staging in a week against the company.
One major grievance is that Uber has extended a summer discount into the fall, cutting deep into drivers wages and forcing them to work extra hours to compensate. Another complaint, according to an organizer and SUV driver who gave his name only as Belal, is that both SUV and black car drivers have been forced to accept requests for UberX — the non-luxury counterpart to Uber’s black car service that charges a lower rate — if they are within the area. SUV and black car drivers never received UberX requests until earlier this summer when the company rolled out a program that allowed these premium car drivers to opt into being listed as both a black car and UberX service with the promise of a 35% to 50% increase in hourly income.
According to Belal, he and many other drivers tried this option once or twice and realized they could not make as much as they did in the time they normally would work just being a black car driver exclusively and tried to email and text the company to opt out. But he and other drivers continue to receive UberX requests despite his attempts to return to just being a premium driver.
Now drivers like Belal are not only awarded low rider acceptance rates they are also being temporarily suspended for only choosing to accept SUV or black car requests.
“Uber is basically abusing the driver,” Belal told BuzzFeed News. “They give us a 24 hour suspension and threaten that you will lose your chance with Uber. To get a ride for $8.00, I’ll have to work the whole day. Gas and insurance for SUV’s are expensive. I have to pay $80 to $100 a day in gas.”

And here's an Uber driver's blog showing how much they actually earned. (Hint: it wasn't very much): http://uberdriverlondon.co.uk/second-week-driving-earnings-expenses/
Total Earnings – £173.27 for 37 hours and 24 minutes…


Yes, it is £4.63 per hour. The bare minimum pay in the UK since 1st of April 2016 is £7.20 per hour. I don’t even know why I am still doing it, but the numbers are more that discouraging. Since I didn’t drive that Saturday and Sunday, on paper £487 quid sounds more than ok, but only if you already have a car and all that stuff. You would still incur a £50 to £80 quid a week for the insurance if you are an experienced driver and have a no-claim bonus, but you’d be still making close to the minimum wage at best.

And Uber drivers protesting about the company's practices:
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-uber-london-protest-idUSKCN0T11QZ20151112
Outside the firm's London offices, around 40 protesters held placards with slogans such as "Uber 1* rating for greed" and "Uber Xploitation" with many saying the demonstration was about a range of complaints over pay.

"It's about falling incomes all the time," Uber driver and trade union representative James Farrar told Reuters.

"Increasing commission is one way, there have been three fare drops in the last two years is another way and to continue to flood the circuit (with drivers) so that there's instant response is another way," he added.
 
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miami

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"I don’t even know why I am still doing it"

I don't see the problem. Don't do it then. Uber is nothing without the drivers.
 

jon0844

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"I don’t even know why I am still doing it"

I don't see the problem. Don't do it then. Uber is nothing without the drivers.

That's the thing, but there are always going to be people who are willing to take the place so Uber won't actually lose out.

No different to the distribution warehouses near me, which recruits from abroad and pays for travel and arranges accommodation for workers. They shack up 4-6 to a room and in many cases have a room only for 12 hours, sharing with shift workers doing the other half of the day, and if they can't cut it they go home and are quickly replaced.

It all seems to me like one big race to the bottom.
 

Harbornite

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I've been using Uber for a while now, it's a fantastic service and a real boon after a night out.
 

Bungle965

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Where?

What are you comparing it with?

Do the drivers seem happy with it?

If I was to compare it with the Uber Taxis that I have been using in Manchester I have compared it to the normal private hire I have found it much easier as I don't have to worry about having cash on me and it normally comes a few pounds cheaper also.
In addition the vast majority of the drivers that I have spoken to a happy with Uber.
Sam
 
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<snip>
In addition the vast majority of the drivers that I have spoken to a happy with Uber.
Sam

compared to what though ?

ordinary PHV work ? with all the hassle of cash handling and so on , the difficulties of old school radio disptch ...

Uber i nthe Uk has used a fundamentally different model to that which has been used elsewhere in the world - Uk uber ops are PHVs and the cars and drivers are palted/ badged as such the 'USP' is the use of the uber app for dispatch and payment ... plenty of local firms had apps /sms based requesting and some had the ability to take card payments whether by their own app, in the office ( CHP and CHNP ) or by drivers using some of the newer 'low cost' terminals / smart phone dongle card terminals
 

St Rollox

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compared to what though ?

ordinary PHV work ? with all the hassle of cash handling and so on , the difficulties of old school radio disptch ...

Uber i nthe Uk has used a fundamentally different model to that which has been used elsewhere in the world - Uk uber ops are PHVs and the cars and drivers are palted/ badged as such the 'USP' is the use of the uber app for dispatch and payment ... plenty of local firms had apps /sms based requesting and some had the ability to take card payments whether by their own app, in the office ( CHP and CHNP ) or by drivers using some of the newer 'low cost' terminals / smart phone dongle card terminals

I'd imagine the likes of Addison Lee will be watching the Uber court case very closely.
 
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I'd imagine the likes of Addison Lee will be watching the Uber court case very closely.

yep as will the courier firms

I suspect every PHV / courier / delivery operation that uses 'owner drivers' and for the PHV side drivers who are paid on a 'fare' split ...

i'm not entirely sure what the difference is between an Uber driver and the the typical 'owner driver' PHV driver who 'rents a radio' from A.N.Other minicab firm ( even though 'renting a radio' these days is either a terriblefix type device or a smart phone app )
 

Altfish

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If I was to compare it with the Uber Taxis that I have been using in Manchester I have compared it to the normal private hire I have found it much easier as I don't have to worry about having cash on me and it normally comes a few pounds cheaper also.
In addition the vast majority of the drivers that I have spoken to a happy with Uber.
Sam

I've used it a couple of times in Manchester and both times the driver complained about the lack of business, "You are my first fare for over 2-hours" was one comment.
 

Tetchytyke

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I'd imagine the likes of Addison Lee will be watching the Uber court case very closely.

I don't think minicab operators will be affected very much by the Tribunal case.

The Tribunal decided that Uber drivers were employees because of the amount of control Uber have over them. Drivers are free to choose when they clock on, but that is all they have control over. Uber don't allow their drivers to reject a fare, Uber don't tell their drivers what the destination is until they are moving, Uber don't allow their drivers to negotiate a fare, Uber don't allow their drivers to choose their own route and Uber manage all complaints, even offering refunds without reference to the driver.

Minicab drivers are free to reject a fare- most minicab drivers have to pro-actively accept a fare- and the minicab companies don't have the level of control over their drivers that Uber have. This is indeed one of the USPs of Uber- that the driver can't reject a fare that is too small for them, and that Uber have control over their drivers so they are "safe".

Uber won't have to change much to be able to legitimately call their drivers self-employed, but they will have to release the control that they currently have over their drivers. It'll be interesting to see which way they go: they can have control, or they can have self-employed drivers, but they can't have both.

I think this decision has more implications for courier firms, who have similar rules of engagement to Uber, and to companies like Deliveroo.
 
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jon0844

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I'd sooner get rid of Deliveroo and Uber Eats, as they're a menace to road users AND pedestrians.

In central London, they're like bicycle couriers rushing documents from office to office (before email killed off a lot of their work) and they will do anything to get to their destination quickly, or to pick up the food, or indeed both.

I don't walk around London that much now, but it seems many Deliveroo riders have figured using the pavements as race tracks is the way forward. Sooner or later we're going to hear of a nasty accident.

Sadly, that's a little bit of out the remit of a tribunal!

I expect as Amazon increases its promotion (and available areas) of Amazon Prime Now, we'll see more incidents here too.
 

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I'd sooner get rid of Deliveroo and Uber Eats, as they're a menace to road users AND pedestrians.

I'd agree with that - I nearly got knocked over at Old Street yesterday by 2 Uber Eats cyclists racing along the underpass - that's my first experience with them and not likely to make me ever use them.
 

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compared to what though ?

ordinary PHV work ? with all the hassle of cash handling and so on , the difficulties of old school radio disptch ...

Private hire companies aren't using radio any more, they're using apps like Uber do. And cash has an advantage to drivers - no need (!) to declare it all for tax, and more tips.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Uber i nthe Uk has used a fundamentally different model to that which has been used elsewhere in the world - Uk uber ops are PHVs and the cars and drivers are palted/ badged as such the 'USP' is the use of the uber app for dispatch and payment ... plenty of local firms had apps /sms based requesting and some had the ability to take card payments whether by their own app, in the office ( CHP and CHNP ) or by drivers using some of the newer 'low cost' terminals / smart phone dongle card terminals

Thought the quality of those apps etc has been driven somewhat by the competition from Uber, in my view.

They're actually better than Uber in most cases - you can advance book. And that competition is heading to Uber who plan to introduce that feature.
 

radamfi

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Thought the quality of those apps etc has been driven somewhat by the competition from Uber, in my view.

They're actually better than Uber in most cases - you can advance book. And that competition is heading to Uber who plan to introduce that feature.

Are there any taxi apps other than Uber that allow you to pay using card and don't permit tips?
 
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