UK face coverings discussion

[Huntergreed]

No, it isn’t. See section 2 (4) of SI 2020/791.

Thank you for referring me to this, this will help make my journeys on public transport much more comfortable now I know this

Do you happen to know if this is the same in Scotland?

 

[island]

Thank you for referring me to this, this will help make my journeys on public transport much more comfortable now I know this

Do you happen to know if this is the same in Scotland?

Not offhand. I shall see if I can find out.

 

[Hadders]

Is it really a requirement to apply for an exemption badge (not as far as I’m aware).

 

[Huntergreed]

Is it really a requirement to apply for an exemption badge (not as far as I’m aware).

Not at all, simply saying “I’m exempt” puts you in the clear

 

[DB]

Not at all, simply saying “I’m exempt” puts you in the clear

That's the case on national rail, but I think TFL have a byelaw aas well, and I'm not sure what the terms of that are.

 

[island]

It appears to me that face coverings are required in outdoor public transport service premises in Scotland, see regulation 6A of SSI 2020/103 as inserted by regulation 2 (6) of SSI 2020/182.

 

[island]

That's the case on national rail, but I think TFL have a byelaw aas well, and I'm not sure what the terms of that are.

TfL’s purported requirement for face coverings stems from a “safety instruction” given under byelaw 12 (1) of the TfL byelaws. They have much the same list of exemptions.

 

[NorthOxonian]

With regards the need for proof (whether in badge form, as a physical card, or in virtual form), some places do insist on it. For example, Go North East buses require some form of proof, you can't just say "I'm exempt". I wouldn't be surprised if TfL also have the discretion to go a bit further than the minimum legal requirements.

 

[Bletchleyite]

With regards the need for proof (whether in badge form, as a physical card, or in virtual form), some places do insist on it. For example, Go North East buses require some form of proof, you can't just say "I'm exempt". I wouldn't be surprised if TfL also have the discretion to go a bit further than the minimum legal requirements.

As there is no medical process to obtain such proof, how do they propose that would work? Any person not wishing to wear a mask can just as easily say "I'm exempt" or print out a PDF from a website.

 

[NorthOxonian]

As there is no medical process to obtain such proof, how do they propose that would work? Any person not wishing to wear a mask can just as easily say "I'm exempt" or print out a PDF from a website.

I suppose they expect that the added process will make it less likely for those not exempt to try and say that they are. Also the link to the form on the Go North East site does require you to confirm you fall into an exemption - you could easily lie but again that might put off those who might "try it on".

 

[Bletchleyite]

I suppose they expect that the added process will make it less likely for those not exempt to try and say that they are. Also the link to the form on the Go North East site does require you to confirm you fall into an exemption - you could easily lie but again that might put off those who might "try it on".

Face coverings on public transport from 30 November

Following changes from government, face coverings are now mandatory on public transport for anyone without an exemption.

www.gonortheast.co.uk

" If you fit into any of the government exemptions, then you'll be able to travel on our buses without wearing a face covering. Just tell the driver when you board the bus. "

 

[DB]

TfL’s purported requirement for face coverings stems from a “safety instruction” given under byelaw 12 (1) of the TfL byelaws. They have much the same list of exemptions.

Thanks. Presumably no mention of badges or other proof there?

 

[NorthOxonian]

Face coverings on public transport from 30 November

Following changes from government, face coverings are now mandatory on public transport for anyone without an exemption.

www.gonortheast.co.uk

" If you fit into any of the government exemptions, then you'll be able to travel on our buses without wearing a face covering. Just tell the driver when you board the bus. "

I'm surprised that the website says that - because having seen such conversations a few times I know the actual policy on the bus is very different.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I'm surprised that the website says that - because having seen such conversations a few times I know the actual policy on the bus is very different.

I hope enough formal complaints are being made to "rein in" rogue drivers/driver managers, then, as I guess they must be making up their own rules as they sometimes do.

 

[Skimpot flyer]

This sounds like reasonably good news, in that these measurements had been suggesting a small rise in infections (though without much confidence because they are extrapolating from such a small number of positive results), and now they are suggesting that infections are remaining steady or dropping.

Again, this shows the importance of looking at evidence.
A sample size of 120,000 is pretty large.
If they were extrapolating from a sample size of 1,200

And our towns and cities can become like much of the US, where 'downtown' is not much different to the rest of the town except more run down.

The mandating of masks will definitely have accelerated the trend towards buying all your products in one place, like a big supermarket.
If the weather is hot, it’s too much palaver to keep putting a mask on and taking it off between the different shops, and too uncomfortable to wear one constantly. The same applies if it’s raining, it’s definitely going to dissuade people from shop-hopping in the high street.
I was in Welwyn Garden City, both in the shopping centre and the surrounding streets, mid-morning, the past two days
Given the good weather, I was surprised to see far less people around than I would have expected. Like a lot of men, I don’t have the ‘love shopping’ gene, I find it a necessary chore at best. But having to wear a mask on the hottest days for 17 years kills any thoughts i may have had to browse around indoors. The lack of an increase in footfall since face coverings were mandated is, I think, going to surprise a lot of the political classes when the statistics come out. Not me, though.

 

[Kendalian]

The wife has an unseen medical condition for which she needs medication every day for life. She has a "medical exemption" certificate for free prescriptions.
She doesn't normally have breathing difficulties but has struggled to breathe on the 2 occasions we've done essential shops wearing masks.

I have advised her not to wear a face covering in future as she has evidence (if anyone needs it) of an "exemption" required under the mask rules.

She is reluctant not to wear one as she fears vigilante abuse and does not want to stigmatise herself by wearing a lanyard (a "Yellow Star" as she put it)

I despair at how society is treating those less fortunate than themselves.

 

[Bletchleyite]

She is reluctant not to wear one as she fears vigilante abuse and does not want to stigmatise herself by wearing a lanyard (a "Yellow Star" as she put it)

I don't quite get the view that a lanyard is a "Yellow Star". Would she also object to using a Blue Badge if she needed it?

 

[Huntergreed]

I noticed in Glasgow Central the announcement goes something like:

'Please note face coverings should be worn in all station areas, this means no food or drink can be consumed in the station'

I was under the impression that food/drink was classed as a reasonable exemption from the mask rule (and it's one I've used many times today, you have no idea how long a water bottle can last if you try )

 

[PaulMc7]

The wife has an unseen medical condition for which she needs medication every day for life. She has a "medical exemption" certificate for free prescriptions.
She doesn't normally have breathing difficulties but has struggled to breathe on the 2 occasions we've done essential shops wearing masks.

I have advised her not to wear a face covering in future as she has evidence (if anyone needs it) of an "exemption" required under the mask rules.

She is reluctant not to wear one as she fears vigilante abuse and does not want to stigmatise herself by wearing a lanyard (a "Yellow Star" as she put it)

I despair at how society is treating those less fortunate than themselves.

I understand how she's feeling tbh as I'm the same. Got a lanyard now but yet to go anywhere near a shop or anything because I can't be bothered with the nastiness

 

[Kendalian]

I don't quite get the view that a lanyard is a "Yellow Star". Would she also object to using a Blue Badge if she needed it?

You have no idea what you're talking about.

 

[trebor79]

I went to buy a birthday card for my brother and anniversary card for 'er indoors yesterday. Decided to make the effort and go to the independent card shop on the high street. Sign outside saying 2 in store at any 1 time and then 1 in 1 out. Very sensible. I was only customer. Perspex at the counter and proprietrer unmasked. I asked if she minded me not donning a mask, given the hot weather and it just being the 2 of us "couldn't care less, but please use the hand gel before looking through the cards".
She also gelled her hands before putting my cards through the till and into a bag. It all felt much more sensible, pleasant and dare I say more effective than blindly following an edict from Westminster.

 

[trebor79]

I understand how she's feeling tbh as I'm the same. Got a lanyard now but yet to go anywhere near a shop or anything because I can't be bothered with the nastiness

Have you experienced any nastiness? My experience is that people don't give a stuff.

 

[PaulMc7]

Have you experienced any nastiness? My experience is that people don't give a stuff.

Had a fair few scowls just for sitting in my girlfriend's car without one at an Asda car park on 2 different occasions. Not been in a shop in months tbh

 

[trebor79]

Had a fair few scowls just for sitting in my girlfriend's car without one at an Asda car park on 2 different occasions. Not been in a shop in months tbh

I really don't think anybody would be scowling at you sat in a car without a mask anywhere. Most people don't put their dirty single use mask on until the instant they step through the shop door.
Were you sat with the engine running to power the air con? I scowl at people who do that, very bad practice that needlessly pumps greenhouse gases into the atmosphere and a load of particulates into the local area.

 

[Darandio]

I've been out a dozen or so times to the shops since masks became mandatory and the attitude towards the few i've seen without masks is that nobody gives a stuff. The only forms of nastiness i've seen are those hiding behind screens on social media.

 

[PaulMc7]

I really don't think anybody would be scowling at you sat in a car without a mask anywhere. Most people don't put their dirty single use mask on until the instant they step through the shop door.
Were you sat with the engine running to power the air con? I scowl at people who do that, very bad practice that needlessly pumps greenhouse gases into the atmosphere and a load of particulates into the local area.

I know exactly what I seen. No engine on or anything. Yeah I agree with you regards running engines

 

[trebor79]

I've been out a dozen or so times to the shops since masks became mandatory and the attitude towards the few i've seen without masks is that nobody gives a stuff. The only forms of nastiness i've seen are those hiding behind screens on social media.

I know exactly what I seen. No engine on or anything. Yeah I agree with you regards running engines

Well that's 2 of us who think nobody gives a stuff. Think about it? How many people wore masks before it became law (it was about 3% in my local area)? Only a tiny proportion of those people will care enough to even bother looking twice, let alone have a go.

 

[PaulMc7]

Well that's 2 of us who think nobody gives a stuff. Think about it? How many people wore masks before it became law (it was about 3% in my local area)? Only a tiny proportion of those people will care enough to even bother looking twice, let alone have a go.

Everyone's experience is different plus I have nothing to gain by lying

 

[Huntergreed]

It would be interesting to know how many of the twitter warriors would actually say something in real life. I bet not very many.

 

[Jonny]

Have TFL brought in a new byelaw about badges being 'required', or are they just giving out incorrect information?

Sounds like incorrect information. Whether by design or by error is another matter; it may be a dog-whistle.