UK face coverings discussion

[A Challenge]

The poor fella standing outside Markies in Dundee today handing out baskets was wearing a visor by itself.

He might as well have been wearing no face covering in that case. But must be seen to be doing something...

He is not required to do either, being a member of staff (or is that not applicable in Scotland?) and bring outside, and unless you think face coverings are useless or harmful, you must think it is better than nothing surely?

 

[A Challenge]

You misunderstood my post. I commented in a response to an assertion that people were being "selfish". Here is another example of selfish behaviour:

https://twitter.com/rickyde4/status/1290939533127712768

How is it selfish if they provide no benefit to the wearer?

 

[yorkie]

How is it selfish if they provide no benefit to the wearer?

Some mask enthusiasts act as if it benefits them too; either that or they are so principled that others must wear masks that they cannot be seen to be letting up for a second in order to set an 'example', not even to take water or communicate with a deaf person.

Either way, it is selfish to refuse to make people with disabilities, such as deaf people who rely on lip reading, feel excluded from society. If this relates to a business, it would also be illegal to make reasonable adjustments to cater for disabilities.

 

[py_megapixel]

You misunderstood my post. I commented in a response to an assertion that people were being "selfish". Here is another example of selfish behaviour:

https://twitter.com/rickyde4/status/1290939533127712768

How is it selfish if they provide no benefit to the wearer?

Read the message above. Someone here is stating that, if a person who relies on lipreading for conversation asks them to remove their face covering so that they can understand them better, they will refuse to do so.

People like this, who lack basic common courtesy, should not be allowed to use public transport.

It is incredibly depressing that, in the 21st century, people are still incapable of accepting that others have different needs and preferences to them.

 

[A Challenge]

Some mask enthusiasts act as if it benefits them too; either that or they are so principled that others must wear masks that they cannot be seen to be letting up for a second in order to set an 'example', not even to take water or communicate with a deaf person.

Either way, it is selfish to refuse to make people with disabilities, such as deaf people who rely on lip reading, feel excluded from society. If this relates to a business, it would also be illegal to make reasonable adjustments to cater for disabilities.

Read the message above. Someone here is stating that, if a person who relies on lipreading for conversation asks them to remove their face covering so that they can understand them better, they will refuse to do so.

People like this, who lack basic common courtesy, should not be allowed to use public transport.

It is incredibly depressing that, in the 21st century, people are still incapable of accepting that others have different needs and preferences to them.

I'm not saying that the person should be doing it, but calling someone selfish for not doing it did seem a bit extreme, given they didn't seem to be gaining the slightest benefit from doing (or not doing, I suppose) it. Yorkie does point out that it is not being able to bother making reasonable
adjustments for them, which does indeed seem selfish actually.

 

[RomeoCharlie71]

He is not required to do either, being a member of staff (or is that not applicable in Scotland?) and bring outside, and unless you think face coverings are useless or harmful, you must think it is better than nothing surely?

I assume he is required to do so by his employer - not by law, when outside anyway. I trust he put another type of face covering on when he went back inside to clock off, or any other reason.

If a face visor was better than something then it'd be an appropriate face covering by law. Alas, it is not.

 

[island]

He is not required to do either, being a member of staff (or is that not applicable in Scotland?) and bring outside, and unless you think face coverings are useless or harmful, you must think it is better than nothing surely?

Being a staff member is not an exemption in Scotland unless one is behind a glass or other partition, but being outside in most cases is.

 

[py_megapixel]

I'm not saying that the person should be doing it, but calling someone selfish for not doing it did seem a bit extreme, given they didn't seem to be gaining the slightest benefit from doing (or not doing, I suppose) it. Yorkie does point out that it is not being able to bother making reasonable
adjustments for them, which does indeed seem selfish actually.

It just infuriates me that people exist who can't be bothered to do something as simple as remove a mask from their face, to allow someone with impaired hearing to understand them.

I've been in situations where something has entirely alienated me from others; I'm sure you have too. It's an incredibly unpleasant experience. Some oeople just need to learn that the world doesn't entirely revolve around them.

 

[yorkie]

I assume he is required to do so by his employer - not by law.

Agreed; many employers have risk assessments where they mandate measures to enable them to be seen to be doing something, and to demonstrate a box has been ticked.

It just infuriates me that people exist who can't be bothered to do something as simple as remove a mask from their face, to allow someone with impaired hearing to understand them....

Indeed; some of the mask activists are so militant, it's hard to believe.

I've not knowingly encountered any in person, but they do tend to be rampant on social media such as Twitter. To say these people are obsessed is an understatement. The most miltant ones frequently use the f word, presumably because they enjoy demonstrating how unreasonable and militant they are.

There is no reasoning with such people.

Even relatively mild mask enthusiasts are trying to tell people they should be wearing masks in an open air environment:

https://twitter.com/Jack_b_26/status/1293223013681434624

Just wear a mask, it’s not the end of the world and it’s also not a lot of effort to do so

You’re outside yes however there’s still people around and someone has asked you to put one on, it’s not a big deal and if it makes people around you more comfortable then what’s the issue?

I’m not going to get into the politics of this or how other countries have responded. I just think as manners if someone has asked you, you should, for those extra 5 minutes I doubt you’d die of heatstroke. It’s just being polite and doing your bit

There's no reasoning with them; they are not interested in seeing the bigger picture, or using common sense.

 

[Birmingham]

-

 

[johnnychips]

Deleted

 

[Huntergreed]

Officially: not mandatory on open platforms in England by law unless the platforms are run by TfL, in which case it is mandatory. It’s mandatory by law in Scotland on open platforms.

 

[bramling]

Read the message above. Someone here is stating that, if a person who relies on lipreading for conversation asks them to remove their face covering so that they can understand them better, they will refuse to do so.

People like this, who lack basic common courtesy, should not be allowed to use public transport.

It is incredibly depressing that, in the 21st century, people are still incapable of accepting that others have different needs and preferences to them.

It does feel like centuries of human development have taken a mass rewind. It’s pretty depressing to be honest.

 

[SouthEastBuses]

Officially: not mandatory on open platforms in England by law unless the platforms are run by TfL, in which case it is mandatory. It’s mandatory by law in Scotland on open platforms.

Ok but I thought masks were compulsory in transport hubs across England? At least according to the official Stagecoach website.

EDIT: They are compulsory in indoor public transport hubs only, nothing about outdoor public transport hubs! (Referring to England)

 

[Richard Scott]

Ok but I thought masks were compulsory in transport hubs across England? At least according to the official Stagecoach website.

Enclosed transport hubs, I believe, so an open platform doesn't count.

 

[Huntergreed]

Enclosed transport hubs, I believe, so an open platform doesn't count.

That's entirely correct.

 

[bramling]

That's entirely correct.

Am I correct that masks still aren’t required on stations in Wales? And for that matter places like museums?

 

[johnnychips]

Just an observation from Barcelona nearly two weeks ago. Face masks were obligatory everywhere unless you were on the beach. You could take them off to eat, drink or smoke. I would say 99% of people had a mask. There didn’t seem to be any exemptions. However, a significant minority of people wore them under their chin and then put them on if told to by police or railway staff - they were not heavy-handed about this - then took them off again as soon as the ‘threat’ had gone.

No conclusions, just an observation.

 

[Richard Scott]

Am I correct that masks still aren’t required on stations in Wales? And for that matter places like museums?

Only to be worn when travelling on public transport, I believe. Not required anywhere else including station platforms.

 

[bramling]

Only to be worn when travelling on public transport, I believe. Not required anywhere else including station platforms.

Here’s hoping that lasts for my planned holiday next month. If masks come in for places like attractions then I will be highly likely to cancel. Whilst we’re planning to do mainly outdoor stuff, I’m not spending out on accommodation if we can’t have viable backup plans for if the weather isn’t so good. Already we’ll probably take a small microwave to the hotel room in case we can’t get a restaurant with all the pre booking.

 

[AdamWW]

Only to be worn when travelling on public transport, I believe. Not required anywhere else including station platforms.

Yes.

The justification for this, I believe, is that trains and buses unlike supermarkets and museums tend to cross borders so it provides consistency.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

One thing of note (and I can't see for today as they appear to have stuffed it up, given up and gone home, so no figures until tomorrow)

They tweeted it last night; it was 102 deaths. I forget the number of new cases but they did include that.

They didn't, however, include the only figures really worth looking at: hospital admissions, total of patients and total on ventilators.

 

[adc82140]

Hospital deaths I believe was 11.

 

[SouthEastBuses]

According to this article: https://www.thesun.co.uk/travel/12369774/france-flights-travel-advice-face-masks/

I can confirm that France ONLY allows surgical masks. No N95s/FFP2s or any respirators. No cloth masks.

Which made me confused at first as Air France stated that the surgical masks were FFPs. Which I previously thought it was true but I later realised they are two different things.

Hopefully we've settled down the argument.

 

[Bletchleyite]

According to this article: https://www.thesun.co.uk/travel/12369774/france-flights-travel-advice-face-masks/

I can confirm that France ONLY allows surgical masks. No N95s/FFP2s or any respirators. No cloth masks.

That isn't what Air France's website says.

 

[SouthEastBuses]

That isn't what Air France's website says.

Sorry, I don't understand. Can you explain a bit more, please?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Sorry, I don't understand. Can you explain a bit more, please?

https://www.airfrance.co.uk/GB/en/common/page_flottante/information/faq-coronavirus.htm

See the first FAQ which mandates a certain specification.

"The government has made the wearing of a surgical mask (type FFP1, FFP2 or FFP3) mandatory on board flights (decree n° 2020-663 dated 31 May 2020). It is strongly recommended to wear one on your arrival at the airport. "

 

[SouthEastBuses]

https://www.airfrance.co.uk/GB/en/common/page_flottante/information/faq-coronavirus.htm

See the first FAQ which mandates a certain specification.

"The government has made the wearing of a surgical mask (type FFP1, FFP2 or FFP3) mandatory on board flights (decree n° 2020-663 dated 31 May 2020). It is strongly recommended to wear one on your arrival at the airport. "

They must have made a mistake. You know, I previously thought that surgical masks were also known as FFP2s, when in reality they aren't. Looks very confusing!

 

[py_megapixel]

The other thing that's worth noting is that many masks have a one-way exhalation valve allowing unfiltered air out of the mask.

Some areas (outside of the UK) are now starting to ban these, because it defeats the greatest purpose of wearing a mask at all - that is, to protect others around you from particles you might exhale.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The other thing that's worth noting is that many masks have a one-way exhalation valve allowing unfiltered air out of the mask.

Some areas (outside of the UK) are now starting to ban these, because it defeats the greatest purpose of wearing a mask at all - that is, to protect others around you from particles you might exhale.

Indeed. Wearing one of those is either (a) a bit silly, or (b) incredibly selfish as the directed-forward exhalations potentially pose an even greater threat to others than they would without. Depending on if you realise or not.