ULEZ in london

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mbonwick

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Guessing that will be electric-hybrids. Presumably the bus runs on diesel to charge batteries outside the ULEZ, then runs solely on electricity/battery within the ULEZ.
 

455driver

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So those outside the ULEZ get more pollution because the diesel engine has to work harder to move the bus and charge the batteries, nice!
 

ECML180

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Zero emissions at point of use tends to mean battery electric, as all the emissions are at a distance power station. However I can see how in the ULEZ it could be cheekily used as said above!
 

edwin_m

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So those outside the ULEZ get more pollution because the diesel engine has to work harder to move the bus and charge the batteries, nice!

Well yes, but they have and will still have less pollution than in the ULEZ otherwise they'd be declared a ULEZ as well.

They need to do something about the taxis as well. And what percentage of buses in central London are single deck?
 

Busaholic

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Well yes, but they have and will still have less pollution than in the ULEZ otherwise they'd be declared a ULEZ as well.

They need to do something about the taxis as well. And what percentage of buses in central London are single deck?

My estimate would be about 10-15% singledeckers within the Congestion Charge area, but as soon as you broaden the area outwards it would go up to maybe 20 or 25%, but nowhere near the majority of buses. Even somewhere like Croydon or Romford has a preponderance of doubledeckers, whereas Bromley is probably half and half.
 

Goldfish62

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Guessing that will be electric-hybrids. Presumably the bus runs on diesel to charge batteries outside the ULEZ, then runs solely on electricity/battery within the ULEZ.

Not hybrids. They will be fully electric. About 300 needed.
 

jacksmithyton

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In response to the ULEZ several bus routes to and from Uxbridge operated on behalf of Buckinghamshire County Council have been slashed or withdrawn. Surely it won't be long until all non TfL routes are withdrawn from Greater London? TfL hardly advertise these routes, with timetables posted at stops sometimes years out of date, will the only buses in future that cross the London boundary be TfL routes?
 
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Goldfish62

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In response to the ULEZ several bus routes to and from Uxbridge operated on behalf of Buckinghamshire County Council have been slashed or withdrawn. Surely it won't be long until all non TfL routes are withdrawn from Greater London? TfL hardly advertise these routes, with timetables posted at stops sometimes years out of date, will the only buses in future that cross the London boundary be TfL routes?
The Surrey routes, which form the bulk of non-TfL services into London, are already ULEZ compliant so the only thing that'll kill them off is the Covid effect.
 

Bletchleyite

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Guessing that will be electric-hybrids. Presumably the bus runs on diesel to charge batteries outside the ULEZ, then runs solely on electricity/battery within the ULEZ.

No, the intention is definitely to go to full battery operation for any single deck route that penetrates the ULEZ (edit: most single-deck routes in the central area are fairly short local routes anyway). The Red Arrows and a few other routes already are, so this is no big thing and doesn't require any workarounds.
 
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philthetube

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Well yes, but they have and will still have less pollution than in the ULEZ otherwise they'd be declared a ULEZ as well.

They need to do something about the taxis as well. And what percentage of buses in central London are single deck?
I think all new taxi are electric, certainly there are quite a few about now
 

Surreyman

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Some confusion here about the terms ULEZ & LEZ, without getting into the boring stuff about cars/vans/motorcycles etc etc. or North circular road extension, central charging zone blah blah.
In plain simple terms from 01/03/2021 all buses and coaches in Greater London have to be Euro 6 or better. (Or pay a charge).
A few caveats - I was reminded on another thread that there are a few 'corridors' inside the GL boundary that still permit non Euro 6 vehicles for access/through routing.
There is a short term 'moratorium' for coach operators, up to 3 months providing that they can prove they have Euro 6 upgrades booked.
Trainers, staff buses and apparently some school buses may be exempt.
Historical vehicles (Pre 1973) are exempt.
Older vehicles are not prohibited from entering the zone, they become liable to a daily charge - £100 for Euro 4 & 5, £300 for euro 3 and older.
 

cnjb8

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Some confusion here about the terms ULEZ & LEZ, without getting into the boring stuff about cars/vans/motorcycles etc etc. or North circular road extension, central charging zone blah blah.
In plain simple terms from 01/03/2021 all buses and coaches in Greater London have to be Euro 6 or better. (Or pay a charge).
A few caveats - I was reminded on another thread that there are a few 'corridors' inside the GL boundary that still permit non Euro 6 vehicles for access/through routing.
There is a short term 'moratorium' for coach operators, up to 3 months providing that they can prove they have Euro 6 upgrades booked.
Trainers, staff buses and apparently some school buses may be exempt.
Historical vehicles (Pre 1973) are exempt.
Older vehicles are not prohibited from entering the zone, they become liable to a daily charge - £100 for Euro 4 & 5, £300 for euro 3 and older.
Why do pre 1973 vehicles usually seem to be exempt?
 

Flange Squeal

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In response to the ULEZ several bus routes to and from Uxbridge operated on behalf of Buckinghamshire County Council have been slashed or withdrawn. Surely it won't be long until all non TfL routes are withdrawn from Greater London? TfL hardly advertise these routes, with timetables posted at stops sometimes years out of date, will the only buses in future that cross the London boundary be TfL routes?
The Surrey routes, which form the bulk of non-TfL services into London, are already ULEZ compliant so the only thing that'll kill them off is the Covid effect.
Further to @Surreyman 's post above, these examples (Bucks and Surrey) are not to do with ULEZ.

The ULEZ (Ultra Low Emission Zone) currently only affects central London and covers the same area as the congestion charge. It is indeed due to expand in October, but only out as far the the North and South Circular Roads. In the Bucks/Surrey direction, this is out as far as places such as Brent Cross, Neasden, Ealing, Acton and Chiswick.

The Buckinghamshire/Surrey situations mentioned above are more likely the toughening up of the LEZ (Low Emission Zone) from Euro IV to Euro VI for buses next month, and which covers a larger area out to Greater London. In the Bucks/Surrey direction, this is out as far as places such as Northwood, Uxbridge, West Drayton, Stanwell, Hampton Court, Surbiton and Chessington.
 

Mojo

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In response to the ULEZ several bus routes to and from Uxbridge operated on behalf of Buckinghamshire County Council have been slashed or withdrawn. Surely it won't be long until all non TfL routes are withdrawn from Greater London? TfL hardly advertise these routes, with timetables posted at stops sometimes years out of date, will the only buses in future that cross the London boundary be TfL routes?
Further to @Surreyman 's post above, these examples (Bucks and Surrey) are not to do with ULEZ.

The ULEZ (Ultra Low Emission Zone) currently only affects central London and covers the same area as the congestion charge. It is indeed due to expand in October, but only out as far the the North and South Circular Roads. In the Bucks/Surrey direction, this is out as far as places such as Brent Cross, Neasden, Ealing, Acton and Chiswick.
It doesn't help that Buckinghamshire Council (no longer a County Council as of last year) don't understand it either and mention on their website (https://www.buckscc.gov.uk/services/transport-and-roads/buses-and-trains/changes-to-bus-services/) that the changes are due to Ulez, which as you point out is nonsense, as the Ulez currently only includes the Congestion charge zone and even with the upcoming expansion will still only include up to the North and South Circulars.

In any case, even if they wanted to, they could still run into Uxbridge (but just not the present terminus) as parts of the west side of the town, including the A4007 to Iver, the Oxford Rd to New Denham (the London-Buckinghamshire border is actually very close to the town centre) and also the Gyratory system round the back of the Chimes Shopping Centre are all not part of the Low emissions zone.
 

Goldfish62

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Further to @Surreyman 's post above, these examples (Bucks and Surrey) are not to do with ULEZ.

The ULEZ (Ultra Low Emission Zone) currently only affects central London and covers the same area as the congestion charge. It is indeed due to expand in October, but only out as far the the North and South Circular Roads. In the Bucks/Surrey direction, this is out as far as places such as Brent Cross, Neasden, Ealing, Acton and Chiswick.

The Buckinghamshire/Surrey situations mentioned above are more likely the toughening up of the LEZ (Low Emission Zone) from Euro IV to Euro VI for buses next month, and which covers a larger area out to Greater London. In the Bucks/Surrey direction, this is out as far as places such as Northwood, Uxbridge, West Drayton, Stanwell, Hampton Court, Surbiton and Chessington.
It's a matter of pedantry. Let me put the same point as I made above in a different way.

ULEZ mandates Euro VI for buses, which all the vehicles on Surrey routes currently are.

Therefore, from October they will not be affected by the tightened LEZ requirements, which mandate the current Euro VI+ emissions standards within the ULEZ expanded to the whole London Low Emissions Zone (basically Greater London).

I now stand by to be informed that the LEZ does not precisely mirror the Greater London boundary. ;)
 

Surreyman

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To follow up Goldfish62 comments which by the way are 'spot on'
Its actually very simple in practice, from March 1st, any Bus or Coach entering Greater London will soon pass a camera, the reg' number will be linked to a database which will flag up whether the Tfl database has that registration marked as compliant or not - For the avoidance of doubt, the database may not be 100% accurate, leading to a few disputes, although I am sure that if a vehicle has been 'flagged' as Euro 6 and actually isn't, no one will be complaining! A charge will be raised, which will either be paid or legal proceedings follow.
I am sure there will be issues with foreign registered coaches, re-registered vehicles and size & weight classifications of a few minibuses. (Oh maybe even 'cloned' reg plates?)
As I said in another thread, some coach operators will, if they decide to bring a non Euro 6 coach into London, simply build the daily charge into the price.
 

Flange Squeal

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It's a matter of pedantry. Let me put the same point as I made above in a different way.

ULEZ mandates Euro VI for buses, which all the vehicles on Surrey routes currently are.

Therefore, from October they will not be affected by the tightened LEZ requirements (1), which mandate the current Euro VI+ emissions standards within the ULEZ expanded to the whole London Low Emissions Zone (basically Greater London).

(2) I now stand by to be informed that the LEZ does not precisely mirror the Greater London boundary. ;)
Couple of points. (1) I agree they won't be affected by the "tightened LEZ requirements" in October, as they will actually be affected by it when it comes into force next month ;) (2) I'm not sure where I said the LEZ doesn't mirror the Greater London boundary? In fact my description of the ULEZ and LEZ zones in my post were actually designed to highlight that it is the latter that covers the Greater London boundary so would be the one affecting the outer areas, rather than the ULEZ changes in October out to the N/S Circulars but was referenced alongside changes in Uxbridge which are actually more likely to be LEZ related rather than ULEZ?

In terms of all the vehicles on Surrey routes into what will next month be LEZ territory being Euro VI compliant already, a quick look at the tracker/map at this moment in time (1935) seems to show at six or seven vehicles currently on routes into the LEZ that aren't Euro VI (although admittedly preparation is understood to be in hand).
 
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Class465pacer

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Arriva Kent Thameside route 477 from Bluewater to Orpington still uses 12 reg Streetlites. Conversion to euro 6 or replacement?
 

Simon75

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I guess Arriva Greenline 724 Heathrow to Harlow, which currently has Citaro's will have new(er) buses?
 

Flange Squeal

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There seems to be a bit of a shift going on across various depots to get suitable vehicles into suitable locations, albeit based on emissions rather than what vehicles may be preferable from a passenger's point of view (depending on your opinion!). Arriva's 06/12-plate Citaros from the 724 have begun moving to Guildford, with some Enviros (including old old liveried GN09 AXK/M) having subsequently moved from Guildford to Maidstone. Based on the comments above, I can only presume other transfers completing the jigsaw may include things replaced by the ex-Guildford Enviros at Maidstone are perhaps moving further into Kent, freeing up the Enviro 200MMCs at Gillingham (mentioned in Hophead's post) to transfer north for the 724?

Similarly at First, some 09-plate Volvo B7RLEs that have previously been retrofitted to meet Euro VI standards have transferred from Southampton to Slough to meet the new LEZ requirements from next month, with Slough's Citaros now moving up to Worcestershire. This is to release Euro VI compliant 65-plate Streetlites from Worcester to move to Leicester, where I believe a Clean Air Zone is due to come into force for buses, coaches and taxis this year.
 

cnjb8

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There seems to be a bit of a shift going on across various depots to get suitable vehicles into suitable locations, albeit based on emissions rather than what vehicles may be preferable from a passenger's point of view (depending on your opinion!). Arriva's 06/12-plate Citaros from the 724 have begun moving to Guildford, with some Enviros (including old old liveried GN09 AXK/M) having subsequently moved from Guildford to Maidstone. Based on the comments above, I can only presume other transfers completing the jigsaw may include things replaced by the ex-Guildford Enviros at Maidstone are perhaps moving further into Kent, freeing up the Enviro 200MMCs at Gillingham (mentioned in Hophead's post) to transfer north for the 724?

Similarly at First, some 09-plate Volvo B7RLEs that have previously been retrofitted to meet Euro VI standards have transferred from Southampton to Slough to meet the new LEZ requirements from next month, with Slough's Citaros now moving up to Worcestershire. This is to release Euro VI compliant 65-plate Streetlites from Worcester to move to Leicester, where I believe a Clean Air Zone is due to come into force for buses, coaches and taxis this year.
All B7RLEs due from Southampton arrived a few months ago, while Citaros have been transferring to Worcester a few at a time with a few left to go.
Worcester has lost the 65-plates to Leicester already with 18 year old Volvo B7Ls filling in at Worcester until the Citaros arrive.
 

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