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Unable to buy ticket

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furlong

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In the language of the TSA:

(b) An Excess Fare may only be Sold if it entitles the Purchaser of it to:-

(v) travel beyond the Station to which the Fare he holds entitles him to travel, but only where he was unable to buy a Fare that entitles him to make such a journey at the Station where and at the time when he started his journey; or
...
 
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Hadders

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Not on your person you haven't!

It's the same as if you left it at home. You have a ticket, but you need to be able to prove that by showing it when requested.

Indeed. And you commit a bylaw offence if you don't hand over a ticket for inspection when asked to do so by an authorised person.
 

Belperpete

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I'm finding it difficult to understand why you couldn't get the relevant tickets at Machynlleth. They still issue tickets on card stock and I have used them on the Tube in London.
Because the guard insisted that I had to buy a ticket from him. As it turned out, there would have been no opportunity to either buy or collect a ticket at Machynlleth, as we ran late after Towyn and so had no time at Mach.
 

Belperpete

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Indeed. And you commit a bylaw offence if you don't hand over a ticket for inspection when asked to do so by an authorised person.
Agreed, but the byelaws include a get-out the same as NRCoT if you join the train at a station where ticket-issuing facilities are not available. Otherwise everybody who quite legitimately boarded without a ticket at a station where there is no ticket-issuing facilities would be breaking the byelaws!
 

Hadders

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Agreed, but the byelaws include a get-out the same as NRCoT if you join the train at a station where ticket-issuing facilities are not available. Otherwise everybody who quite legitimately boarded without a ticket at a station where there is no ticket-issuing facilities would be breaking the byelaws!

But you then need to purchase a ticket at the earliest opportunity. Your argument is that you have a ticket, but you are unable to show it as you need to collect it. As I have explained, along with @Starmill and @MikeWh this is not allowed although in reality some guards would allow it.

I think we're going to have to agree to disagree on this one.
 

Belperpete

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Your argument is that you have a ticket, but you are unable to show it as you need to collect it.
No, my argument has only been that someone who has bought a ticket on-line but has not been able to collect it, is just as entitled to board without a ticket at a station without ticket-issuing facilities as anyone else.

you then need to purchase a ticket at the earliest opportunity.
Agreed, and normally you would have to buy another ticket from the guard. But the whole point of this particular thread is: what happens if the guard is unable to sell you a ticket for the journey you are making? As others have clearly stated, you should be allowed to travel to the first place where you can buy it. At which point, what is to stop you from collecting the ticket that you have already bought?
 

yorkie

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No, my argument has only been that someone who has bought a ticket on-line but has not been able to collect it, is just as entitled to board without a ticket at a station without ticket-issuing facilities as anyone else.


Agreed, and normally you would have to buy another ticket from the guard. But the whole point of this particular thread is: what happens if the guard is unable to sell you a ticket for the journey you are making? As others have clearly stated, you should be allowed to travel to the first place where you can buy it. At which point, what is to stop you from collecting the ticket that you have already bought?
Can you write to TfW and ask for their views as I would be very interested to hear what they have to say.

Did you report the previous incident to them? Have they responded?
 

Belperpete

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Can you write to TfW and ask for their views as I would be very interested to hear what they have to say.
I have raised an on-line complaint about my East Croydon trip to them, asking for a refund of the extra fares I was forced to pay. I have said that I was told at the booking office that I should have been allowed to travel without a ticket to the first place where I could buy the correct ticket, and asked them to confirm that this is correct.

Four days later, I am still waiting for the confirmation of receipt that the web-site claims I should have received within 48 hours. I will send them an email copy of the complaint if I don't get a confirmation soon. However, in my experience, TFW are very slow in responding - a month or more is not unusual.
 

yorkie

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Please keep us updated. I strongly agree you should not be inconvenienced and/or overcharged but I am keen that you ensure you are 'in the right' for future journeys.

The onus is on TfW to provide a solution that is compliant with consumer laws as well as the Ticketing Settlement Agreement and the terms of the contract (ie. Conditions of Travel)
 

Belperpete

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Please keep us updated. I strongly agree you should not be inconvenienced and/or overcharged but I am keen that you ensure you are 'in the right' for future journeys.
The onus is on TfW to provide a solution that is compliant with consumer laws as well as the Ticketing Settlement Agreement and the terms of the contract (ie. Conditions of Travel)
I have now had a response from TfW. As a reminder, this was due to the TfW guard insisting on selling me a ticket to Euston as TfW's new on-board ticket machines are unable to sell cross-London tickets, and Euston booking office refusing to sell the over-distance excess that the guard said I should ask for to complete my journey. I was therefore forced to buy separate tickets to complete my journey, resulting in me paying more than the through fare.

TfW's response is as follows (I have highlighted in bold the important bit):
In line with the National Rail Conditions of Travel we operate a buy before you board policy. This means that where ticket purchasing facilities are available, you must buy your ticket before you board. If there are none available, then the customer may buy their tickets either on the train, or at the station where they change for a connecting service or arrive. This also includes if the customer is unable to purchase the exact ticket they want from the available ticketing facilities. As our conductors cannot issue cross London tickets as the ticket barriers on the London Underground do not accept the barcodes printed on the ticket, you would be allowed, and should purchase your ticket at a station. This would usually be at Birmingham New Street however if the timings allow for it you could also do this at Shrewsbury.

I intend taking a printout of this email with me when I make similar journeys in future, to show any guard who insists that I must buy a ticket of some kind from them. It may also come in handy if I am challenged for not having a ticket by an RPI in the Penalty Fare Zone between Shrewsbury and Birmingham.
 

Meole

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Cambrian coast has been running buses replacing trains due to ongoing engineering, with taxis for the more difficult access halts, no fares being collected, no tickets issued, was told it wasn't worth putting rail staff on the buses who just have drivers, so free travel for all, although a large proportion of passengers have free travel anyway, seniors and school. Most stations do not have machines of course.
 

Belperpete

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Cambrian coast has been running buses replacing trains due to ongoing engineering, with taxis for the more difficult access halts
On my last journey, I was put in a taxi from Shrewsbury due to the flooding. I got back to Porthmadog TWO HOURS EARLY! I think that demonstrates just how slow the Cambrian is.
 
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