Unable to collect tickets from TVM with my Bank card

Status
Not open for further replies.

route101

Established Member
Joined
16 May 2010
Messages
8,617
Tried to collect tickets from TVM twice in last few weeks. Once on Avanti and other on Scotrail TVM. Enter my collection code but it flashes up ' this card cannot be used to collect tickets' Is this a problem with the TVM or is it my bank? Anyone else have this problem?
 
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R

RailUK Forums

trainophile

Established Member
Joined
28 Oct 2010
Messages
5,228
Location
Wherever I lay my hat
Ia it a debit or credit card? Which bank? I've been having problems paying for tickets on both Trainsplit and TPE, debit card works for neither, credit card only works on TPE, so I'm wondering if there's something happened behind the scenes that's messing things up.
 

CheapAndNerdy

Member
Joined
17 Jan 2010
Messages
338
Same happened to me earlier this month with tickets purchased through the Avanti website. I paid for them using PayPal so (as I understand it) any card can be used to collect them, but after being unable to pick up them using my credit card (NatWest Mastercard) I contacted Avanti who made some change at their end. However I still could not use that card to retrieve the tickets, but I could with my debit card (NatWest Visa). It didn't occur to me to try my debit card the first time.

Interestingly, the Avanti person said that even though I had purchased using Paypal, the card I used would somehow be communicated back to them. I was sceptical as I could have funded the transaction from a Paypal balance or direct bank transfer.
 

Bletchleyite

Veteran Member
Joined
20 Oct 2014
Messages
70,819
Location
"Marston Vale mafia"
Interestingly, the Avanti person said that even though I had purchased using Paypal, the card I used would somehow be communicated back to them. I was sceptical as I could have funded the transaction from a Paypal balance or direct bank transfer.

That is false, the whole point of PayPal is to hide the card number from the merchant.
 

route101

Established Member
Joined
16 May 2010
Messages
8,617
Ia it a debit or credit card? Which bank? I've been having problems paying for tickets on both Trainsplit and TPE, debit card works for neither, credit card only works on TPE, so I'm wondering if there's something happened behind the scenes that's messing things up.
Debit card, Bank of Scotland. Twice in a week. I don't know which end that's the problem, had no issues before. Have no issue buying tickets on the TVM.
 

talltim

Established Member
Joined
17 Jan 2010
Messages
2,426
That is false, the whole point of PayPal is to hide the card number from the merchant.
In fact my PayPal doesn't have a card registered to it. It did until yesterday when I removed several expired ones, including one from 2015!
 

superjohn

Member
Joined
11 Mar 2011
Messages
525
I had the same problem at Ipswich a few weeks ago, the tickets were purchased from LNER. I tried several machines with no success but the ticket office were able to issue them without a problem.

One thing I noticed was that the card reader on all the machines went to “Remove card” immediately after it was inserted when it usually thinks for a while after you insert the card. Despite that it still went through the process of entering the booking code before throwing the error.

I have since successfully collected LNER tickets from the same machines with the same card so it seems it was a temporary glitch.
 

Hadders

Established Member
Senior Fares Advisor
Joined
27 Apr 2011
Messages
9,036
Sounds like the TVM is struggling to read the mag-stripe or chip on your card (whichever one the TVM uses)
 

Starmill

Veteran Member
Associate Staff
Events Co-ordinator
Joined
18 May 2012
Messages
17,591
Location
Manchester
Not long ago I bought a ticket on my phone on way to the station, and the only fulfilment method on offer was ToD. I paid with Google Pay. Again no card number so I used a Boots Advantage card to pick it up. Worked perfectly!
 

superjohn

Member
Joined
11 Mar 2011
Messages
525
Sounds like the TVM is struggling to read the mag-stripe or chip on your card (whichever one the TVM uses)
That sounds entirely possible with my card. Self service petrol pumps often require several attempts to register. I think I’ll get it replaced, it expires in 2025 and I can’t be doing with that hassle for the next four years!

I’m surprised there are still mag stripe TVM’s in use. Would it be a case of making collection only machines cheaper because they don’t need chip equipment or are they just older machines that are still in service?
 

Haywain

Established Member
Joined
3 Feb 2013
Messages
6,707
I’m surprised there are still mag stripe TVM’s in use. Would it be a case of making collection only machines cheaper because they don’t need chip equipment or are they just older machines that are still in service?
There are still plenty of cards issued outside the UK that are mag stripe only. Most, if not all, TVMs read the mag stripe for Tod collection on all cards.
 

py_megapixel

Established Member
Joined
5 Nov 2018
Messages
4,703
Location
Northern England
I had this in the past trying to collect ScotRail-purchased tickets from a Northern machine. This was only a short time before departure and I needed my tickets, so I phoned Northern, who told me to phone ScotRail, who told me to phone Northern!

I believe the error message was along the lines of the collection reference not matching any tickets associated with my card
 

Haywain

Established Member
Joined
3 Feb 2013
Messages
6,707
I believe the error message was along the lines of the collection reference not matching any tickets associated with my card
That generally indicates the wrong card is being used to collect a booking that is set to same card collection.
 

py_megapixel

Established Member
Joined
5 Nov 2018
Messages
4,703
Location
Northern England
That generally indicates the wrong card is being used to collect a booking that is set to same card collection.
It was definitely the correct card, as I'd keyed in the details online and then put the card straight in my wallet to use for collection later that day, and I didn't have any other cards in my wallet at the time so I couldn't have taken out the wrong one!

Luckily the guard let me on and the ticket office staff at my destination printed it out for me so I had the return
 

Deafdoggie

Established Member
Joined
29 Sep 2016
Messages
1,804
There are still plenty of cards issued outside the UK that are mag stripe only. Most, if not all, TVMs read the mag stripe for Tod collection on all cards.
Avanti machines don't let you push the card all the way in, so it isn't reading the stripe, just the chip.
 

KT550

Member
Joined
23 Dec 2020
Messages
132
Location
Surrey
I've also had occassions at a Southern TVM where the card used to purchase online would not enable collection.
I have been able to use another card in my name to collect the tickets, so wonder whether there is a name check (as well) to allow this.


In fact, I've just noticed this on the FAQ section of the Southern website:


Can someone else collect my tickets from the station?

Yes, as long as they have access to a payment card for identification (any card is fine) and the eight-character reference shown on your email confirmation. The tickets cannot be issued without these.
 

alistairlees

Established Member
Joined
29 Dec 2016
Messages
2,708
The ticket on departure database requires either:

1. The credit or debit card that the tickets were purchased with*, and the eight character collection reference; or

2. Any payment card, and the eight character collection reference.

No other information, such as name, is used.

It’s up to the retailing website whether it:

1. sets all ToD purchases to “same card collection only”

2. sets all ToD purchases to “any card collection”

3. Does a mixture of the two (e.g. allowing regular customers to collect with any card, but forcing first time customers to collect with the same card).

Any retailer should be able to change an order from “same card collection” to “any card collection”. It is the retailer, and not the issuer (such as a station booking office) that has to do this.

*where something like PayPal is used to buy tickets, then no card details can be sent to the ticket on departure database, so “any card collection”
 

KT550

Member
Joined
23 Dec 2020
Messages
132
Location
Surrey
The ticket on departure database requires either:

1. The credit or debit card that the tickets were purchased with*, and the eight character collection reference; or

2. Any payment card, and the eight character collection reference.

No other information, such as name, is used.

It’s up to the retailing website whether it:

1. sets all ToD purchases to “same card collection only”

2. sets all ToD purchases to “any card collection”

3. Does a mixture of the two (e.g. allowing regular customers to collect with any card, but forcing first time customers to collect with the same card).

Any retailer should be able to change an order from “same card collection” to “any card collection”. It is the retailer, and not the issuer (such as a station booking office) that has to do this.

*where something like PayPal is used to buy tickets, then no card details can be sent to the ticket on departure database, so “any card collection”
That's interesting, thanks.

So, for retailers which allow any card (which need not be in the same name as purchaser) do they keep a record of the card number/name?

If not, then surely there is no real need to request a card and just the collection ref number should be needed.
 

Horizon22

Established Member
Associate Staff
Jobs & Careers
Joined
8 Sep 2019
Messages
3,169
Location
London
Yes it does seem each TOC has a different approach - I know Southeastern had the "any card" approach which always calmed passengers down when they were fretting about it! It seems to me if it's good for one company, all should follow suit.
 

Haywain

Established Member
Joined
3 Feb 2013
Messages
6,707
That's interesting, thanks.

So, for retailers which allow any card (which need not be in the same name as purchaser) do they keep a record of the card number/name?

If not, then surely there is no real need to request a card and just the collection ref number should be needed.
That would then become ‘no card collection’ which is not an available option.
 

alistairlees

Established Member
Joined
29 Dec 2016
Messages
2,708
That's interesting, thanks.

So, for retailers which allow any card (which need not be in the same name as purchaser) do they keep a record of the card number/name?
Yes, it's collected when payment is taken.
If not, then surely there is no real need to request a card and just the collection ref number should be needed.
The general risk with only having one piece of identifying info (a collection reference) is that someone (inadvertently or otherwise) types in the wrong one, and collects someone else's tickets. We have seen this happen.
 

py_megapixel

Established Member
Joined
5 Nov 2018
Messages
4,703
Location
Northern England
Yes, it's collected when payment is taken.

The general risk with only having one piece of identifying info (a collection reference) is that someone (inadvertently or otherwise) types in the wrong one, and collects someone else's tickets. We have seen this happen.
Neither of those two things apply with any-card collection. The number/name collected at payment isn't relevant if it isn't being checked, and typing the wrong collection reference can still happen.
 

alistairlees

Established Member
Joined
29 Dec 2016
Messages
2,708
Neither of those two things apply with any-card collection. The number/name collected at payment isn't relevant if it isn't being checked, and typing the wrong collection reference can still happen.
I know. At present though, same card collection is the dominant method, so the risk is minimised. Fraud is a considerable issue, and reducing the opportunity for it to take place is important.
 

route101

Established Member
Joined
16 May 2010
Messages
8,617
Last time I asked to collect at Avanti ticket counter at Glasgow, usually no hassle in doing so.
 

py_megapixel

Established Member
Joined
5 Nov 2018
Messages
4,703
Location
Northern England
Last time I asked to collect at Avanti ticket counter at Glasgow, usually no hassle in doing so.
That's interesting - I heard policy was that ticket office staff weren't supposed to fulfill ToD for passengers unless the passenger couldn't do it via the TVM for some reason. Maybe that's changed though.
 

route101

Established Member
Joined
16 May 2010
Messages
8,617
That's interesting - I heard policy was that ticket office staff weren't supposed to fulfill ToD for passengers unless the passenger couldn't do it via the TVM for some reason. Maybe that's changed though.
Well I tried to collect from the TVM but couldn't.
 

Argyle 1980

Member
Joined
21 Jul 2020
Messages
129
Location
Cornwall
I know that the smaller TVMs that Southeastern have at the smaller stations are problematic with collections.
They work fine if the tickets are booked via SE website, but on other operators sites, the warning pops up that tickets can't be collected at this station and to select an alternative station to collect from.
The first time this happened to me when I booked a ticket from Aylesham to Saltash from GWRs website, I thought the information was just out of date and the system hadn't been updated to reflect that Aylesham now had a TVM so I selected Dover as an alternative just so it would allow me to book the ticket as normally it's irrelevant which station you select. When I tried to collect it, it said no booking found so I boarded the train anyway and as it was a short connection at Dover, I didn't have time to collect it from the main machine there so ended up waiting until St Pancras where the staff on the barrier retrieved it for me from their star machine. I thought it might have been an isolated issue but exactly the same happened the next time I tried the same thing, so it must be a software issue with these machines and the booking system.
 

alistairlees

Established Member
Joined
29 Dec 2016
Messages
2,708
I know that the smaller TVMs that Southeastern have at the smaller stations are problematic with collections.
They work fine if the tickets are booked via SE website, but on other operators sites, the warning pops up that tickets can't be collected at this station and to select an alternative station to collect from.
The first time this happened to me when I booked a ticket from Aylesham to Saltash from GWRs website, I thought the information was just out of date and the system hadn't been updated to reflect that Aylesham now had a TVM so I selected Dover as an alternative just so it would allow me to book the ticket as normally it's irrelevant which station you select. When I tried to collect it, it said no booking found so I boarded the train anyway and as it was a short connection at Dover, I didn't have time to collect it from the main machine there so ended up waiting until St Pancras where the staff on the barrier retrieved it for me from their star machine. I thought it might have been an isolated issue but exactly the same happened the next time I tried the same thing, so it must be a software issue with these machines and the booking system.
When you buy a ticket from any retailer, for ToD fulfilment, the details are placed in a database called Live Sales Management (LSM). There's no difference in the procedure from one retailer to another.

When you collect your tickets from a TVM (or station booking office), then the TVM (ir booking office) sends the 8-character reference, and the partial PAN of the card presented, to the database, to retrieve details of the tickets from the matching order in the database. There's no difference from one TVM (or booking office) to another.

That's it.
 

Argyle 1980

Member
Joined
21 Jul 2020
Messages
129
Location
Cornwall
When you buy a ticket from any retailer, for ToD fulfilment, the details are placed in a database called Live Sales Management (LSM). There's no difference in the procedure from one retailer to another.

When you collect your tickets from a TVM (or station booking office), then the TVM (ir booking office) sends the 8-character reference, and the partial PAN of the card presented, to the database, to retrieve details of the tickets from the matching order in the database. There's no difference from one TVM (or booking office) to another.

That's it.
Can you explain the anomaly then that certain TOCs websites state that TOD isn't available from these stations with these types of TVM then? And why SE allow tickets they sell to be collected from these machines but other TOCs can't?
 

alistairlees

Established Member
Joined
29 Dec 2016
Messages
2,708
Can you explain the anomaly then that certain TOCs websites state that TOD isn't available from these stations with these types of TVM then? And why SE allow tickets they sell to be collected from these machines but other TOCs can't?
Can you provide the links, please?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Top