Unable to excess or buy tickets from another station?

[thewolf]

I've just had two problems at Stoke with two fairly straightforward requests...

1) I have an off peak day return to Manchester 'stations', I asked if it was possible to change this to 'central zone' so i can use the tram across to Victoria. Surely just a sinple excess i assumed, apparently they can't do it though....

2) I asked if I could get a return from Manchester to Mill Hill (Lancs) from here as i assumed you could buy tickets from anywhere to anywhere from any station, again the response was it couldnt be done here and would have to wait til Manchester.


Is this correct or have I just been fobbed off by lazy/poorly trained staff?

 

[transportphoto]

As Stoke is outside of the TfGM ticketing area, the excess should have been issued to (G234) 'METROLINK CITY', this should be a simple Over Distance Excess.

As for the other ticket this should have been sold aswell, unless the window was marked 'Tickets for Immediate Travel'. If you were buying the ticket to travel later today it should have been sold at all windows including the 'Tickets for Today' window IMO (I am not aware of the arrangements at Stoke).

I would be complaining to the ticket office operator asking for some form of compensataion.


TP

 

[AlterEgo]

What were the reasons given for not them being able to do it?

 

[OwlMan]

As for our first question - they can not do it.
The only tickets fromStoke On Trent to Manchester are too Manchester Stations.
Tickets to Manchester CTLZ are only available from Stations in the "Transport for Greater Manchester" area.

They should have been able to sell you the other ticket though.

Peter

 

[transportphoto]

As for our first question - they can not do it.
The only tickets fromStoke On Trent to Manchester are too Manchester Stations.
Tickets to Manchester CTLZ are only available from Stations in the "Transport for Greater Manchester" area.

They should have been able to sell you the other ticket though.

Peter

I have edited my post above as the original info I gave was incorrect.

That is incorrect AFAIAA. As I detailed above, tickets issued to Metrolink Zones are only available to be issued from stations inside the TfGM area however there is an option available from outside said area. (I will PM you collybs and AlterEgo)

 

[AlterEgo]

As for our first question - they can not do it.
The only tickets fromStoke On Trent to Manchester are too Manchester Stations.
Tickets to Manchester CTLZ are only available from Stations in the "Transport for Greater Manchester" area.

They should have been able to sell you the other ticket though.

Peter

Indeed - I'm more interested to know what the reason given was for refusing to sell the second ticket.

 

[thewolf]

No real reason was given. i was just told it will have to wait til i get to Manchester. Not sure why I had an issue today, I've been able to get excesses, etc with no problems in the past :/

 

[AlterEgo]

As I detailed above, tickets issued to Metrolink Zones are only available to be issued from stations inside the TfGM area however there is an option available from outside said area. (I will PM you collybs and AlterEgo)

I stand corrected - it is an option outside the area.

OP - It's a little odd they would just "send you away" - the only thing I can think of is a booking system or IT failure which would warrant that.

 

[snail]

That is incorrect AFAIAA. As I detailed above, tickets issued to Metrolink Zones are only available to be issued from stations inside the TfGM area however there is an option available from outside said area. (I will PM you collybs and AlterEgo)

The 'Metrolink City' extension is just the regular £1.20 adult return added on to the rail ticket price. Looking at Avantix Traveller, it doesn't appear to be available on all ticket types (eg CDRs)?

 

[thewolf]

I decided to fire off an email to VT to try and ascertain why I'd been offered duff advice at the station...

Unfortunately, the reply they gave me seems to contain further duff advice

Thank you for your email.



The reason why the member of staff would have advised you to buy your Metrolink ticket at Manchester would have been because there is a £10.00 administration fee to change your ticket. If you had changed your ticket you would have been charged the fare from Manchester Piccadilly to Manchester Victoria and an additional £10.00, therefore it being more cost effective to buy your ticket from Manchester Piccadilly. In addition Metrolink tickets on their own can only be purchased at Metrolink stations.



However, we do offer through tickets from Stoke-on-Trent to Manchester Victoria which can be purchased at any station.



Unfortunately, our ticket offices are unable to offer Off-Peak tickets during Peak times and if you were trying to buy an Off-Peak during Peak times they would not have been able to issue this ticket.



I do understand your frustration as this information should have been explained to you at the station. I do hope you can accept my apologies and I will make sure your comments are passed on to the station team.

I stated in my email to them that I had an Off-Peak Return to 'Manchester Stations'... Where this nonsense regarding a £10 admin fee to change this from Picadilly to Victoria has come from, I have no idea.

Secondly, I made reference to the fact I was travelling on a Saturday, so again the Off-peak ticket at peak time stuff is nonsense.

One of two things has happened here. They either haven't bothered to read my email properly so have just fired off a standard load of rubbish in the hope I won't know the difference, or whoever has dealt with my query/complaint doesn't have a clue.

I wasn't that put out by not being able to buy the ticket at Stoke, and just wanted clarification as to why I was unable to... That reply has annoyed me though.

 

[Greenback]

One of two things has happened here. They either haven't bothered to read my email properly so have just fired off a standard load of rubbish in the hope I won't know the difference, or whoever has dealt with my query/complaint doesn't have a clue.

I wasn't that put out by not being able to buy the ticket at Stoke, and just wanted clarification as to why I was unable to... That reply has annoyed me though.

Sadly, it's often a case of pot luck whether you find someone who can adequately deal with a question about impartial retailing.

The culture inside many customer services departments is to merely cut and paste stock replies without a full reading or undersatnding of the issues raised in the correspondence. The majority of the staff have only a little knowledge of the intricacies of railway ticketing and the legal framework that they operate within, and they can lack the experience and/or the judgement to know when to seek advice. Often, when they do seek advice their superior is just as badly trained and inexperienced.

Having said that it will help anyone who contacts them to use specific wording like 'excess my ticket' rather than 'change my ticket', since an excess is a term that should be recognised as a rail ticketing procedure. Changing a ticket would normally be recognised by a CS representative as being something that happens with Advance tickets that requires a fee!

 

[LexyBoy]

The bit about an admin fee I can sort of understand, as I bet they get a lot more queries about AP tickets than walk-on fares, but the following is simply wrong:

Unfortunately, our ticket offices are unable to offer Off-Peak tickets during Peak times and if you were trying to buy an Off-Peak during Peak times they would not have been able to issue this ticket.

Either the statement is incorrect, or Virgin are in breach of impartial retailing. I expect it to be that the author of the email simply got in a twist about what was being asked. It doesn't seem to have any relevance to thewolf's issue though (without seeing the original email).

 

[Greenback]

Either the statement is incorrect, or Virgin are in breach of impartial retailing. I expect it to be that the author of the email simply got in a twist about what was being asked. It doesn't seem to have any relevance to thewolf's issue though (without seeing the original email).

That is probably the only bit that the person composed themselves. They are obviously trying to get promoted to Customer Service Manager!

 

[thewolf]

I made it clear in the initial message I had an 'off-peak day return from S-o-T to Manchester Stations' and that I asked for it to be excessed.

That's why I'm so annoyed about them telling me stuff about having an AP to Piccadilly.

And that I've been told tickets to Victoria are available. No. No they aren't. Tickets to Manchester Stations are available. Which is what I had.

I'm not sure whether to send a reply simply inviting them to read my initial query again or go a bit more long-winded. Perhaps incorporate the two together.

 

[Greenback]

Would it be worth simply asking direct questions, like can I buy a Manchester to Mill Hill (Lancs) ticket from Stoke on Trent? This gives them very little wriggle room, but it would be interesting to see if they try to make out that they might do you a favour and sell you one if it's not busy, but they are not obliged to!

 

[thewolf]

Before I fire off this reply, can I clarify a couple of point?


First of all, where the email says tickets to Victoria are available, am I correct in thinking this is false and they are only available to Manchester Stations (which is what I had).

Secondly - although largely irrelevant to my query - would they be in breach of 'the rules' by not selling off-peak tickets at all times?

One more - Is it definitely possible to excess the Man Stns ticket to include the Metrolink?

 

[yorkie]

First of all, where the email says tickets to Victoria are available, am I correct in thinking this is false and they are only available to Manchester Stations (which is what I had).

Correct Manchester Stns includes Victoria.

Secondly - although largely irrelevant to my query - would they be in breach of 'the rules' by not selling off-peak tickets at all times?

http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/times_fares/offpeak.html

"You can buy Off-Peak tickets any time before you travel"

http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/times_fares/simple_fares.html

"Buy any time, travel off-peak"

Note: not all ticket offices will observe this obligation and will make up their own rules.

 

[snail]

Correct Manchester Stns includes Victoria.

But if you arrive at Piccadilly you would then have to go on to Salford Crescent to get to Victoria (allowed because they are all in the Manchester Group). If you want to cross the city centre by Metrolink you need a destination of 'Metrolink City', which in the OPs case would require a new ticket issuing.

 

[thewolf]

But if you arrive at Piccadilly you would then have to go on to Salford Crescent to get to Victoria (allowed because they are in the Manchester Group). If you want to cross the city centre by Metrolink you need a destination of 'Metrolink City', which in the OPs case would require a new ticket issuing.

Could that not just be excessed from my original Manchester STNS ticket?


The email is almost finished, however I'm wondering, having already recieved one substandard response from their email complaints team - and having berated their response in my reply - I might be better served by sending it in as a letter perhaps?

 

[AlterEgo]

Could that not just be excessed from my original Manchester STNS ticket?


The email is almost finished, however I'm wondering, having already recieved one substandard response from their email complaints team - and having berated their response in my reply - I might be better served by sending it in as a letter perhaps?

Virgin's Customer Relations works as one office. The same people man the phones, write the letters, send emails, and monitor social media. There's no "email" team as such.

 

[yorkie]

Tickets are issued to Manchester Stns (or Manchester Ctlz if the origin is in the GM area) however that does not necessarily mean that they are valid to all the applicable stations as that depends on what the Routeing Guide permits (and perhaps on the routeing, e.g. Virgin Only can never be valid into Victoria, Oxford Rd etc unless they were diverted!)

 

[Olympian]

But if you arrive at Piccadilly you would then have to go on to Salford Crescent to get to Victoria (allowed because they are all in the Manchester Group). If you want to cross the city centre by Metrolink you need a destination of 'Metrolink City', which in the OPs case would require a new ticket issuing.

Not according to the websites I've tried - East Coast and The Trainline so far - who will happliy sell you Stoke on Trent to Manchester Stations tickets (including Virgin only and CrossCountry only ones) with an itinerary including Metrolink between Piccadilly and Victoria...

National Rail Enquiries confuses things further by saying "Train tickets validity on Metrolink services. Train tickets may not be valid on some Metrolink services and an additional fare may be payable for the Metrolink part of the journey". Rather ambiguous!

 

[snail]

Not according to the websites I've tried - East Coast and The Trainline so far - who will happliy sell you Stoke on Trent to Manchester Stations tickets (including Virgin only and CrossCountry only ones) with an itinerary including Metrolink between Piccadilly and Victoria...

National Rail Enquiries confuses things further by saying "Train tickets validity on Metrolink services. Train tickets may not be valid on some Metrolink services and an additional fare may be payable for the Metrolink part of the journey". Rather ambiguous!

Isn't it! Manchester Stns tickets are definitely not valid between the stations. ISTR they used to be but at some point it changed to GM tickets only. As the NRCoC don't apply to Metrolink I don't think you would have much luck showing an itinerary to a Metrolink RPI!

 

[island]

The main issue is that many staff either [a] don't know how to do excesses, don't want to do excesses, and/or [c] think that zero fare excesses are a pain or will get them in trouble.

 

[thewolf]

Got a nice prompt (relevant) reply after having a word on Twitter...

Apparently not all fares are loaded onto the system they use to excess tickets, which would explain why it was not possible to excess to the Metrolink. Although, as the person I dealt with didn't show much interest in the first place, I suspect he wouldn't have bothered if it was possible.

With regards to not being sold the Manchester to Mill Hill, there appears to have been no reason other than laziness. And I've been told my concerns will be 'passed on' to the station team.

Oh well, I've got another ticket to get excessed tomorrow - Hopefully the same staff member is on, so I can test him out again

 

[MidnightFlyer]

I bought a ticket from Manchester Stns to Pleasington at [stn]SOT[/stn] on Weds evening with no trouble, except I had to spell out my destination...

 

[scrapy]

There doesn't appear to be a fare in advantix from Stoke to Metrolink City. This is odd because the fare exists from further affield Birmingham for example. This is possibly why they couldn't excess your ticket. As suggested earlier though you would pay no more by buying a return from Piccadilly to Victoria on arrival in Manchester.

 

[button_boxer]

There doesn't appear to be a fare in advantix from Stoke to Metrolink City. This is odd because the fare exists from further affield Birmingham for example. This is possibly why they couldn't excess your ticket. As suggested earlier though you would pay no more by buying a return from Piccadilly to Victoria on arrival in Manchester.

Or split at Stockport - SOT to Manchester Stns CDR is £12.90. SOT to SPT plus SPT to Manchester Ctlz is £11.10+£2.80 = £13.90, which is 20p cheaper than buying a separate Metrolink ticket. Although this doesn't work for VT only CDRs, where SOT-MAN is £9.40 and splitting at SPT to get the central zone totals £10.70, 10p more than buying the Metrolink ticket separately.

I use this trick from Derby and in that case splitting at Stockport saves a couple of quid (in addition to getting the ctlz validity).

 

[bb21]

Before I fire off this reply, can I clarify a couple of point?

I know this might be a bit late but anyhow ...

First of all, where the email says tickets to Victoria are available, am I correct in thinking this is false and they are only available to Manchester Stations (which is what I had).

I would ask them to clarify which ticket is valid to Manchester Victoria and which itinerary would be suitable for such a ticket.

Secondly - although largely irrelevant to my query - would they be in breach of 'the rules' by not selling off-peak tickets at all times?

Taken from here.

Off-Peak Tickets

Buy anytime, travel off peak

What are Off-Peak tickets?
Off-Peak fares are cheaper tickets for travelling on trains that are less busy.
...

Decide for yourself. I think the reply you got opened up many more questions than it answered.

Isn't it! Manchester Stns tickets are definitely not valid between the stations. ISTR they used to be but at some point it changed to GM tickets only. As the NRCoC don't apply to Metrolink I don't think you would have much luck showing an itinerary to a Metrolink RPI!

They did use to be. I remember massive posters advertising the fact when they got withdrawn at the entrance to Metrolink at Piccadilly station.

 

[district]

So, According to Avantix you can't buy a MANCHESTER STNS (0438) ticket from a station inside the TfGM area, you have to buy a MANCHESTER CTLZ (0451) ticket?

And you can't buy a CTLZ ticket from outside the area, you have to buy a STNS which isn't valid on Metrolink transfers?

Is this correct?