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Unable to use LUL connection: how to connect without voiding Advance?

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errata

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21 May 2011
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Ladies/Gents

I have just booked a weekday advance from Wellingborough (WEL) to Dover Priory (DVP).

The train leaves WEL in the early morning and the itinerary that the ATOS booking website gave is as follows:

- 0523 WEL to St Pancras, arrive 0616
- Transfer St Pancras to Liverpool Street via Tube
- 0702 Liverpool Street to Stratford (SRA), arrive 0709
- Transfer to Stratford International (SFA) via "Metro" [read: DLR]
- 0749 from SFA to Ashford and thence DVP.

A very convoluted routeing I know; it would've been much simpler to arrive into St Pancras and simply walk over to the Southeastern platforms for the direct Dover service -- but this is what the system spat out, plus the fare was very cheap and gets me in at the ideal time.

The trouble is that I am travelling with a bicycle and thus am prohibited from making the LUL connection at that time of day; DLR connections by bicycle are never permitted. Would it be permissible for me to cycle directly from St Pancras to SFA whilst maintaining the validity of my Advance ticket? Alternatively, would it be permissible to cycle from St Pancras to Liverpool Street and then walk/cycle the short distance from SRA to SFA?

I am concerned about the attitude the gateline staff might have at SFA if we entering the station from "landside", as opposed to coming straight up from the DLR station attached.

I spoke to Southeastern earlier and the representative offered a surprisingly nebulous answer, suggesting that "they're not going to know whether you've just come off the tube or walked into the station". I appreciate that this may be the case in practice(or not?), but what are the specific conditions relating to my circumstances (so that I have something to fall back on if challenged)?

Also, does anyone have experience of how sympathetic the SE HS1 guards/gateline staff are towards cyclists? There will be four of us, but I assume that the service from SFA will be lightly loaded so I don't believe there will be an issue.

Thanks in advance.
 
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andrewkeith5

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I can't think of a reason why anybody would be bothered. In all cases you have to exit the National Rail station and re enter the other.

It is possible to enter Stratford International from outside through the same doors you would have to enter from the DLR - they are actually different stations, just connected by a covered walkway. Getting out of Stratford might be tricky though.
 

transmanche

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You can take your bike on the Circle/Met/H&C before 07:30, so there's no reason why you can't take the tube from King's Cross St Pancras to Liverpool Street and catch your booked train to Stratford.

Then just walk/cycle to Stratford International - it's basically the length of the shopping centre!
 

bb21

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You can ask for permission to join the train there at St Pancake Southeastern gateline. If you explain your situation, staff might see sense in allowing you the start there especially given that the train wouldn't be that busy anyway.

If not, then staff at Stratford International won't know that you cycled all the way there instead of doing the cross-London transfer by rail. As transmanche has pointed out, you could quite legitimately take the Sub-Surface Lines to Liverpool Street, then National Rail to Stratford London, then walk/cycle to Stratford International.
 

LexyBoy

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Do you only have a reservation for the WEL-STP train?

I too would only expect reservations on the first leg. If this is the case the ticket is valid on the direct St Pancras to Dover train (or Victoria/Charing Cross if you prefer). It won't be questioned because if you only have a WEL-DVP ticket, and a reservation WEL-STP, then it's impossible to know what the itinerary you were given was.

NRE doesn't show the 0523 departure by default; if you ask for half an hour more interchange time then it does appear (with some bargain fares!), which suggests to me that your itinerary is resulting from the journey planner only showing this departure because the longwinded route means you're not waiting around for ages at any one place. The 0553 departure gets to St Pancras in time for the same train to Dover, so this will be show in preference as it's faster.
 
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yorkie

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Ladies/Gents

I have just booked a weekday advance from Wellingborough (WEL) to Dover Priory (DVP).
So that's Wellingborough to London on the "booked" train, and London to Dover on "appropriate" connecting services.
The trouble is that I am travelling with a bicycle and thus am prohibited from making the LUL connection at that time of day
I disagree. You are allowed to take the bike on the sub-surface lines, except between 0730-0930 and 1600-1900. Deep level tube lines never permit bikes.
DLR connections by bicycle are never permitted
For the moment, but I heard that policy may change soon.
Would it be permissible for me to cycle directly from St Pancras to SFA whilst maintaining the validity of my Advance ticket?
Technically that may count as a "break of journey" but in reality I don't think anyone would mind.
Alternatively, would it be permissible to cycle from St Pancras to Liverpool Street and then walk/cycle the short distance from SRA to SFA?
It's certainly permitted, there is no compulsion to use LU for transfers, though any delay incurred when making your own way would invalidate any delay compensation claims and may cause issues if going for the last connection of the day (not applicable here).
I am concerned about the attitude the gateline staff might have at SFA if we entering the station from "landside", as opposed to coming straight up from the DLR station attached.
I agree that the staff at Stratford International gateline have been known to give grief to genuine customers for no good reason.
I spoke to Southeastern earlier and the representative offered a surprisingly nebulous answer, suggesting that "they're not going to know whether you've just come off the tube or walked into the station". I appreciate that this may be the case in practice(or not?), but what are the specific conditions relating to my circumstances (so that I have something to fall back on if challenged)?
Well, I don't really think there is an issue. You are tied to your EMT service, and from then on you are on the connection. The rule is you may take "appropriate" connecting trains.

If the train to Dover is running from St Pancras, then I would simply board the first available train at St Pancras.
 

errata

Member
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21 May 2011
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Thanks all for your detailed responses. Yes I have a reservation only for the WEL - STP leg.

I assume the tickets will say something along the lines of "EMT & CONNECTIONS" under permitted routeing, so in that case I'll take the suggestion of asking to board at St Pancras in the first instance.
 

clagmonster

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Technically that may count as a "break of journey" but in reality I don't think anyone would mind.
The National Rail Conditions of Carriage state:
"For the purposes of this Condition and Condition 11, you will be treated as breaking your journey if you leave a Train Company’s or Rail Service Company’s stations after you start your journey other than to:
(i) join a train at another station,"
http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/static/documents/content/NRCOC.pdf
When Errata leaves St. Pancras station, he is doing so in order to join a train at Stratford (SR) station.
 

hairyhandedfool

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If the only reservation is to St Pancras, then I would expect you would only have to ask to be let through the barriers if your ticket does not work them. There would be no reason for the staff to know that your booked journey was via Liverpool Street unless you volunteer this information.
 
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