Unclaimed bag unloaded, person arrives too late

[Lewisham2221]

Not all the time and not because people enjoy it, which is what we really mean by "popular" in this context, otherwise it is equivalent to making the equally meaningless statement that doctors surgeries and hospitals are popular in response to any criticism of the NHS, but mostly because of compulsion when it is the only practical way to make an essential journey and/or that all other modes of transport are worse. That is why many people complain about our rail network and at its worst is hated. Roads are also rammed full in many places during peak rush hour and Britain has some of the most congested roads in Europe, that doesn't mean people enjoy driving. If you still think full trains at certain times of day mean anything in context to what most people would mean by the term "popular", how much modal share of transport does rail enjoy?

What's modal share got to do with it? You just said yourself that people don't enjoy driving. If people don't enjoy train travel, and they don't enjoy driving, what "popular" method of transport are people using to "enjoy" travelling around the country? And what modal share does it have?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Only certain coaches of Lumo trains have luggage racks,If you are in coach E you are expected to leave your bag in a different coach from where you are sitting

Though with Lumo's restricted maximum size (which is only very slightly bigger than IATA carry on size in two of the dimensions, and actually smaller in one of them, 41cm rather than 45cm*) everything will fit in the overheads, so only lazy people (or those who physically can't lift it, but it is mostly lazy people) need do that.

* Though in practice I doubt they actually check with a gauge, they probably more just eyeball it looking for massive bags that are way over.

 

[renegademaster]

Though with Lumo's restricted maximum size (which is only very slightly bigger than IATA carry on size) everything will fit in the overheads, so only lazy people (or those who physically can't lift it, but it is mostly lazy people) need do that.

Lumo themselves endorse you using their luggage racks. I don't think it's right to call people lazy for using a service they have paid for the and the TOC promotes

Medium-sized suitcases should be stored in the luggage racks and storage areas on our trains in carriages B,C,D.

 

[Bletchleyite]

A significant proportion of the problems caused by luggage on trains is people not putting it in the overheads when it fits, to keep the stacks free for bags that don't fit or are heavy enough that if placed in the overhead they might be dangerous (and the seats free for others). So I'm sticking with that.

It's not about entitlement, it's about doing the right thing in a shared space to accommodate everyone.

 

[Lewisham2221]

That should never happen regardless. If a wheelchair user needs the space, there are bags in the way, the TM knows in advance a wheelchair user is booked to board (they do have that information, don't they?) and the TM has requested over the speaker the owner of obstructive luggage please move it, then get the bag(s) out of the way by whatever means. That doesn't mean to say it should be necessary for the TM to evacuate any baggage in the wheelchair space off the train at every opportunity including when they know a wheelchair user isn't going to board. You could go the extra distance and have a large shocking pink neon sign that is impossible to ignore even for the smart-phone-dumb-user that baggage left here may be removed from the train if someone in a wheelchair wishes to board, please move your luggage if requested, then passengers would have no right to complain when actions are followed by consequences.

No, there is no requirement for a wheelchair user to pre-book their travel. They are perfectly entitled to turn up and go, like any other passenger.

Clearly the TM hasn't randomly singled out one item of correctly stowed luggage and decided that, unless they can identify who it belongs to, they are going to remove it from the train for absolutely no reason whatsoever. None of us, apart from the OP (who themselves doesn't seem to have the full details of exactly what happened and why) were there. For whatever reason, the TM became aware of the specific piece of luggage, made several attempts to identify the owner and having failed to do so, deemed the item should be removed from the train. People are always complaining that XC services are overcrowded; having unaccompanied luggage on the trains is hardly doing wonders for capacity.

I can't comment for XC Voyagers specifically, but I have certainly seen signage on trains stating that the wheelchair space must be left clear of luggage.

 

[Deafdoggie]

What's modal share got to do with it? You just said yourself that people don't enjoy driving. If people don't enjoy train travel, and they don't enjoy driving, what "popular" method of transport are people using to "enjoy" travelling around the country? And what modal share does it have?

It is probably what people dislike the least. I always travelled by train, but being tipped out at stations mid journey, trains cancelled, having to fork out myself for new tickets because they would not arrange ticket acceptance then fight to claim back the money, grumpy staff with bad attitudes have all taken their toll and now I generally drive. Given I used to spend around £1,000 a month on rail fares I was a big user!
But they annoyed me once too often and I got a car and haven't looked back. Do I enjoy driving? Not really. Is it better than the train? A million times so. And, even including the price of buying the car, considerably cheaper. Yes people do use trains, but most are because they have no other choice or actively want to. The numbers choosing train over car voluntarily are very small indeed.
I am a rail enthusiast and I chose to get a car and drive, it isn't a ringing endorsement of the state of the railways.

 

[Peter Sarf]

It is probably what people dislike the least. I always travelled by train, but being tipped out at stations mid journey, trains cancelled, having to fork out myself for new tickets because they would not arrange ticket acceptance then fight to claim back the money, grumpy staff with bad attitudes have all taken their toll and now I generally drive. Given I used to spend around £1,000 a month on rail fares I was a big user!
But they annoyed me once too often and I got a car and haven't looked back. Do I enjoy driving? Not really. Is it better than the train? A million times so. And, even including the price of buying the car, considerably cheaper. Yes people do use trains, but most are because they have no other choice or actively want to. The numbers choosing train over car voluntarily are very small indeed.
I am a rail enthusiast and I chose to get a car and drive, it isn't a ringing endorsement of the state of the railways.

This sums it up. I always choose to use my car as little as possible but rail was getting too expensive and too troublesome. Long distance I get a better cheaper service travelling by coach compared to rail. My friends including enthusiasts err to the use of road. In London it is rail or I don't bother - not because rail is good but because rail is less bad !.

Back to luggage. We do not have enough facts. This could have been an enormous bag blocking the gangway. This could have been an overzealous staff member. This could have been complaints from fellow passengers. I have never had problems with luggage on (under) the coach.

 

[Krokodil]

the TM knows in advance a wheelchair user is booked t

including when they know a wheelchair user isn't going to board.

There is no obligation to book ahead. If a passenger who requires assistance decides to turn up on a whim then the railway is still obliged to make all reasonable efforts to accommodate them.

 

[Deafdoggie]

There is no obligation to book ahead. If a passenger who requires assistance decides to turn up on a whim then the railway is still obliged to make all reasonable efforts to accommodate them.

I'm not aware of anyone objecting to moving luggage out of the wheelchair area when there is a wheelchair. But it is..strange...that a TM would rather luggage be piled in the aisle than in an empty wheelchair space, but I have known that to happen more than once. It is truly bizarre. They overlook a wheelchair can't get to the space because of luggage and people, that doesn't seem to matter, just the fact the space itself is clear. Never mind luggage is packed precariously up the aisle and could fall on someone and injure them that is fine. As long as the wheelchair space is travelling around empty, all is good. Inaccessible, but empty.

 

[GoneSouth]

I always travelled by train, but being tipped out at stations mid journey, trains cancelled, having to fork out myself for new tickets because they would not arrange ticket acceptance then fight to claim back the money, …

Given the trend towards open access, bargain basement, and a general unwillingness from those companies to help each other out, I suspect this will become much more widespread

Progress!

 

[WAB]

And this is why it's important to keep the wheelchair spaces clear - as is XC policy:

Mum 'belittled' after luggage blocks wheelchair space​

A mother said she was "belittled" after asking a passenger to move his luggage, which was blocking a train's wheelchair space.
Chantal from Churchdown, Gloucestershire, was travelling to London with her son Jenson, 11, on Sunday with CrossCountry.
They were forced to stand in an aisle blocking the way, until a passenger "reluctantly" moved his luggage after asking if they had first class tickets.
A spokesperson for CrossCountry said: "Wheelchair spaces are available in first and standard class and customers should never store luggage in these areas."
Jenson has Duchenne muscular dystrophy, external, a genetic condition that weakens and degenerates muscles. He was travelling to London for his weekly treatment at Great Ormond Street Hospital.
His family usually travel with Great Western Railway, but had to use a CrossCountry service due to cancellations.
They boarded the "packed" train at Cheltenham and went to first class, where the wheelchair space was, to find two large suitcases blocking it.
"Nobody approached us to say 'sorry, that's my luggage, I'll move it'," Chantal said.

'Things need to change'​

After standing in the aisle for a while, she was forced to ask other passengers who owned the suitcases.
"Unfortunately one of the passengers acknowledged that they were his, but rather than being apologetic and wanting to help, he kept saying, 'have you got first class tickets?'.
"The wheelchair spaces tend to be in first class and if there is one in standard class and it's taken up already, you get put into first class," she said.
Eventually, the passenger "reluctantly" moved his suitcase, but she said they felt "really unwelcomed".
"Jenson was upset as well because he just went really quiet.
"We just felt judged and belittled by how he was approaching us and he seemed really reluctant to move his suitcases," she added.
Issues also reportedly arose when they arrived at Parkway Station to change trains and a ramp was not there to meet them.
"My main concern isn't just what happened to us. It's about all those disabled people who travel alone.
"It's a huge thing, a lot of effort to arrange to go onboard a train and then suddenly faced with the problems that we faced.
"If it was somebody on their own, they would have been just stuck in that aisle for the whole duration of the journey, with no one offering any help or support, so things just need to be changing," she added.

A spokesperson for CrossCountry added: "Our onboard colleagues are highly trained and work hard to make sure all passengers are as comfortable as possible, even on busy services."

Mum 'belittled' after luggage blocks wheelchair space

Chantal said she was disgusted by the man's response on the "packed train".

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[Meerkat]

Re announcements
Can the TOC app and train wi-fi be linked that announcements pop up on passengers phones on that train? Only the crew made ones, not the ‘See it…’ etc. So disruption and ‘whose luggage is this’ could get to those with headphones on?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Re announcements
Can the TOC app and train wi-fi be linked that announcements pop up on passengers phones on that train? Only the crew made ones, not the ‘See it…’ etc. So disruption and ‘whose luggage is this’ could get to those with headphones on?

It'd certainly be technically possible to do that. My doctor uses the SystmOne app, and the notification of which room to go to for the doctor comes up on my phone as well as on the screen in the surgery. I guess technically more difficult with older trains and voice announcements though.

Most people won't use train wifi, though.

 

[al78]

There is no obligation to book ahead. If a passenger who requires assistance decides to turn up on a whim then the railway is still obliged to make all reasonable efforts to accommodate them.

Thanks for the clarification, makes sense and it is good to know that passengers requiring assistance have the same flexibility to travel as other passengers.

If I was traveling by train with a full size bicycle stored in the cycle space which is shared with the wheelchair space and one or more passengers with wheelchairs need to board, I'm guessing I would have to leave the train if the only way to accommodate them is to move my bicycle and there is nowhere else to store it?

 

[Blackpool boy]

Re announcements
Can the TOC app and train wi-fi be linked that announcements pop up on passengers phones on that train? Only the crew made ones, not the ‘See it…’ etc. So disruption and ‘whose luggage is this’ could get to those with headphones on?

No - you would need an app to do that

 

[Meerkat]

Most people won't use train wifi, though.

They might if it was useful, enabling you to shut out the row from your fellow passengers and not risk missing an important announcement!

No - you would need an app to do that

My suggestion stated that it would use the app.

 

[Bletchleyite]

If I was traveling by train with a full size bicycle stored in the cycle space which is shared with the wheelchair space and one or more passengers with wheelchairs need to board, I'm guessing I would have to leave the train if the only way to accommodate them is to move my bicycle and there is nowhere else to store it?

That is a problem with shared space, but it would seem the fairest option, not least because there normally is somewhere else e.g. a door vestibule where a bicycle can be placed temporarily. Those with disabilities should always take priority over those without; they've drawn the short straw in life as it is.

 

[reb0118]

Doors open on the left, nice pile of luggage in the opposite doorway. Great. Until 30 mins later when we arrive at the next station and the doors open on the right...

This reminds me of a bank holiday trip to Preston. I had to bite my tongue regarding the incorrectly stored luggage (I was off duty) but what amazed me was the number of small cases in the large luggage racks - so the vast amount of luggage could have been correctly stored. The guard was wishy washy stepping over cases &c..

Anyhow, alighting at Preston the doors opened on the right. There was about 15 cases in "my" doorway. As I attempted to climb over them I inadvertently nudged one and caused a mini avalanche onto the platform.

 

[Bletchleyite]

This. Travelled on a train between two busy-ish stations the other day. Doors open on the left, nice pile of luggage in the opposite doorway. Great. Until 30 mins later when we arrive at the next station and the doors open on the right...

There are quite a lot of routes where the platform is always on one side. Leaving Euston for instance all platforms as far as Bletchley inclusive are on the left and cannot be otherwise unless terminating at Tring.

 

[GoneSouth]

This reminds me of a bank holiday trip to Preston. I had to bite my tongue regarding the incorrectly stored luggage (I was off duty) but what amazed me was the number of small cases in the large luggage racks - so the vast amount of luggage could have been correctly stored. The guard was wishy washy stepping over cases &c..

Anyhow, alighting at Preston the doors opened on the right. There was about 15 cases in "my" doorway. As I attempted to climb over them I inadvertently nudged one and caused a mini avalanche onto the platform.

Oops. Did anybody assist with reloading the avalanched bags

 

[Krokodil]

As I attempted to climb over them I inadvertently nudged one and caused a mini avalanche onto the platform.

Whoops!