So I was given a penalty fare notice of 185 travelling from leicester to st pancras. Now my issue was, i paid for my tickets and have the payment email to confirm, however i was using the mobile format ticket and this however was not working. The inspector asked my to load my emails as proof I had purchased a ticket and without even waiting for them to load he said im writing you a penalty notice. At which point i stated that he must've had some sort of issue with me as i had valid proof of purchase on my email. He then brought through a fellow female colleague who was even more arrogant, and she stated that she would now be filming me on her pocket camera, which made me even more irritated as i felt like a criminal but I know I paid for my tickets. Can i appeal this?
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Unfair penalty? Can I appeal
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londonboi198o5
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Did you activate the mobile ticket BEFORE you boarded the train.
Iirc I may be wrong you must activate the mobile ticket BEFORE you board the train.
Iirc I may be wrong you must activate the mobile ticket BEFORE you board the train.
What do you mean by "not working"? And what caused it not to work?
lack of signal wouldn't let the barcode load, i tried to show him the email as proof and he didn't care
yeah it was active, just kept saying loading on the app
londonboi198o5
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How long does it say you have to pay the penalty or have you already paid it.
If the latter I would put in an appeal
If the latter I would put in an appeal
21 days
While it is harsh, an appeal against a penalty fare would be unlikely to succeed. You were unable to display a valid ticket, while traveling from a station and on a train for which penalty fares apply. A mobile ticket that won't load is equivalent to a paper ticket in your other trousers.
One thing that I don't understand is that you said it wouldn't load because you didn't have signal, however the m-ticket apps that I've used don't need signal to display the active ticket. Are you sure that you had activated it prior to boarding as required?
One thing that I don't understand is that you said it wouldn't load because you didn't have signal, however the m-ticket apps that I've used don't need signal to display the active ticket. Are you sure that you had activated it prior to boarding as required?
AlterEgo
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So what exactly caused him to call for backup?
Some email clients will cache recent messages, though in that case they should have displayed near-instantly.
i said he was being harsh and he kept accusing me of not paying
clagmonster
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At what time were you travelling? First class or standard? I am a little puzzled as to how the travelling ticket inspector has arrived at £185.
If the ticket was active, then you wouldn't need signal to display the ticket. If you claim signal is to blame, why didn't you download and activate before boarding the train?
Something doesn't add up...
Something doesn't add up...
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ForTheLoveOf
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Indeed, that's the first thing I'd be wondering. I, too, can't see any obvious way that a particular fare currently in the system would lead to a Penalty Fare of £185, as there are only four walk-up single tickets from Leicester to St Pancras - the Super Off-Peak and Anytime Singles, for Standard and First Class. Twice any of them makes for exact figures of £127, £170, £179, or £222 for a Penalty Fare, depending on the time of travel. Of course it's possible the OP has rounded or approximated the amount of the Penalty Fare, but if the Penalty Fare has been issued for an incorrect amount, this is a viable ground for appeal.
A further viable ground for appeal could be the lack of signage at Leicester station complying with the required Regulations - see here for more information. As far as I'm aware, (and I've travelled with almost every TOC!), the only TOC that has Regulations-compliant signage is SWR, and even there only at some stations.
To the OP: it is a strict liability (i.e. intent doesn't matter, like speeding) offence, under Railway Byelaw 18(1), to board a train without a valid ticket on you. In the context of a mobile ticket, it's not clear what 'on [your] person' (from the Byelaw) exactly means, and whether or not an unactivated ticket still counts as 'a ticket'. However, Railway Byelaw 18(2) requires you to show a ticket on demand, so therefore even if Byelaw 18(1) is not relevant, this probably is.
Either way - what I am pointing out is that failing to have a valid ticket is a serious matter, and a Penalty Fare is a method of regularising such an irregularity. I would therefore strongly advise paying it in the first instance. This is because, once a Penalty Fare has been paid, and an appeal submitted against it, you can no longer be prosecuted if the appeals body makes a response to the appeal, or the deadline for them to do so passes. In other words, even if you later manage to get your money back, a Penalty Fare is a way of stopping this from becoming a criminal matter, which is always a good thing.
Of course, if this is all down to an app fault of some kind, rather than a failure to activate the ticket prior to boarding, then you may be able to hold the retailer liable for any costs you incur, including a Penalty Fare, and you would be under no obligation to appeal against such a Penalty Fare to recover its cost.
But what will not be a valid ground of appeal is that the situation 'seems' unfair, as the title of the thread says.
One question I'd be wondering is how the OP got through the ticket barriers at Leicester - or, indeed, did they board elsewhere? If they were given permission to board the train without an activated ticket, that could be a further ground of appeal, though of course proving this is always difficult.
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It does not.
Puffing Devil
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Help us to understand a little more: Please tell us the train company you were using and where and how you bought your tickets from.
Regrettably people are stupid and don't read the instructions. They obviously know they have to download and activate their ticket because they start fumbling around to do it when an inspector appears, some even saying 'hang on, I'm just downloading it'. Some of my more straight down the line colleagues have decided enough is enough and started charging again for tickets that haven't been activated and you wouldn't believe how pissy people get when you point out that 'you're only activating it because it's being checked which implies you'd never activate it at all if it wasn't checked', this on the basis that the only way to get some people to learn is to hit them in the pocket.
Some are just a bit dim and some are genuinely attempting things like rinsing off peak returns for multiple days so given it's impossible to determine reliably which, there's going to be more unhappy people going forward.
Aside from the environmental benefits there's little that's positive about mobile tickets as they stand.
Some are just a bit dim and some are genuinely attempting things like rinsing off peak returns for multiple days so given it's impossible to determine reliably which, there's going to be more unhappy people going forward.
Aside from the environmental benefits there's little that's positive about mobile tickets as they stand.
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Agreed, though how do they benefit from not activating a ticket to rinse an off peak return for several days on an operator that just uses the MK 1 eyeball to look at an M ticket instead of a scanner? For example Northern just read the printed side of the ticket not the barcode, whereas lner have a scanner. I’m not sure how EMT do it.
Primarily by hoping not to run into an inspector at all! Once it's activated it's done regardless. Tell tale signs is commuters who you know full well did it with their paper tickets only doing it at the precise minute you walk into a coach
CHING!Advances they're quite obviously not on the fiddle and they get more of a stern warning instead.
What I’m suggesting is say you had an SOR between two stations on an M ticket. Once you activate the return portion, say on day 1. On day 2 it will show as used, but this doesn’t mean that the entire journey is used so unless staff scan the ticket barcode then you’re actually in a better position than with a paper ticket as there’s no physical mark.
You would hope that BOJ could be programmed into it where the user has to tell it that they have broken their journey
A good idea, but not one that’s currently implemented.
gray1404
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It is a shame the OP has not been back to provide additional information so we can advise further. I cannot work out how this amount of PF has been calculated either.
Indeed.
Also, although there may be gaps in the coverage, there are plenty of places between Leicester and London which do have a signal.
Mobile tickets work well in other countries and are often very convenient. I haven't come across any elsewhere that need activating. What is the point in activation? Is it for use with tickets that are not specific to a single day, such as the return portion of one month return?
Yes, exactly this.
kristiang85
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I don't use M tickets just to avoid any kind of battery or technical related failure, but it would be great if there was a setting in these apps which, if turned on with geolocation, if it knew you had a ticket booked from Station X, it would ping you a notification once you're in close proximity to the station saying in big red letters "Remember to activiate your ticket before travel otherwise you will be deemed as travelling without a valid ticket!".
The tech is surely there to do that.
The tech is surely there to do that.
Location-based reminders are a built-in function of current Android and iOS versions so there's no reason for app creators to reinvent the wheel.
When making onboard announcements that they are about to make a ticket check throughout the train, could not the train manager add on "please make sure all mobile tickets are activated or you will be liable for the full fare" when saying about having all tickets,passes and railcards ready for inspection.
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