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Union Connectivity Interim Report

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kylemore

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A potential ferry service from Holyhead to Warrenpoint is very interesting. I also didn't realise that freight into Larne is decreasing.
I can't see the point, surely commercial traffic wants to get on the M6 asap which the Seatruck service from Warrenpoint to Heysham does perfectly?

Why go the long way round - either via Cairnryan or Holyhead?
 
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BayPaul

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Yes. I presume it is a response to the complications resulting from the Brexit deal - and the A75 issue in Scotland. I would have thought the route would be competitive for Belfast from the M62 belt and points south, and that a ferry would be able to make 2 return crossings per day (same as Dublin, but with tighter turnrounds), so efficient.
I didn't even know Warrenpoint was a ferry terminal - but it looks as though most of the infrastructure is there, just needs a linkspan and a passenger terminal.
There is already a linkspan at Warrenpoint, though its a single deck one, designed for stern-loading freight vessels. Its 77NM (Nautical Miles) berth to berth from Warrenpoint to Holyhead, however the run in to Warrenpoint is about 10NM, with a speed limit of 6 knots, so it's over 1.5 hours to get clear of the port, say another 30 minutes manoeuvring in Holyhead, then 67NM at say 22 knots is another 3 hours, so it is probably a bit over 5 hours berth to berth.

Two round trips per day is barely possible - loading a large ferry in under an hour isn't really achievable. They manage it at Dover, but only because there is practically no unaccompanied traffic, and because the ferries waste a lot of space in order to maximise efficiency of loading. That isn't very efficient on a 5 hour crossing, so three single trips per day is probably more achievable. This would be tricky in Holyhead, as there is limited space available between the existing Stena and Irish Ferries operations

Running from Heysham, so much more convenient for the M6 isn't actually all that much longer journey time - around 7 hours.

I think that if Holyhead - Warrenpoint was a commercially viable route, it would already be in operation. The existing routes seem much more sensible. I can't really see a subsidised operation making sense - the existing operators would rightly complain of unfair competition.
 
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Its 77NM (Nautical Miles) berth to berth from Warrenpoint to Holyhead, however the run in to Warrenpoint is about 10NM, with a speed limit of 6 knots, so it's over 1.5 hours to get clear of the port, say another 30 minutes manoeuvring in Holyhead, then 67NM at say 22 knots is another 3 hours, so it is probably a bit over 5 hours berth to berth.

Two round trips per day is barely possible - loading a large ferry in under an hour isn't really achievable. They manage it at Dover, but only because there is practically no unaccompanied traffic, and because the ferries waste a lot of space in order to maximise efficiency of loading. That isn't very efficient on a 5 hour crossing, so three single trips per day is probably more achievable. This would be tricky in Holyhead, as there is limited space available between the existing Stena and Irish Ferries operations
I think it was said in the days of the old Greenore-Holyhead route that it was too long for a day crossing and too short for a night one, and apparently this was always a challenge to its viability. (However, the immediate reason for its withdrawal was apparently that partition left a lot of Greenore's hinterland on the wrong side of the border - in this context, it's a little ironic that the Warrenpoint-Holyhead version is now being proposed as - presumably - a way for Northern Irish traffic to avoid passing through the Republic.)
 

XAM2175

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the Warrenpoint-Holyhead version is now being proposed as - presumably - a way for Northern Irish traffic to avoid passing through the Republic
Is there any benefit to this, other than the political? The customs and biosecurity requirements apply equally either way.
 

class26

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Worth remembering that only a percentage of Scotland to London flights use Heathrow and BA have the monopoly for that. Pre Covid it was BA to Heathrow, London City and Gatwick, Easyjet to Luton, Stanstead and Gatwick, and Ryanair to Stanstead (possibly others, always avoid Ryanair if at all possible). The choice of destination airport would be based on budget and onward destination, so unless you are heading for the city centre it would be Heathrow and Gatwick if flying on to Europe/Worldwide or south and west of London, Luton for North of London and Stanstead for East Anglia.
What will be interesting post COVID is how the void left by the demise of Flybe will be filled, they had been the airline to use to get form Scotland to Birmingham, East Midlands and the smaller airports like Southampton and Exeter.
Easy Jet have taken up the routes from Birmingham to both Edinburgh and Glasgow though, due to Covid the schedules are a little thin at the moment
 

BayPaul

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Is there any benefit to this, other than the political? The customs and biosecurity requirements apply equally either way.
I can't help but think this is a join the dots, connect the closest points of Wales to Northern Ireland, bringing together 4 nations kind of thing, rather than having any real traffic flow logic. North Wales is unlikely to generate much traffic itself, and England - N Ireland flows are almost certainly better served either by longer routes from Heysham and the Mersey, or a short shuttle from Cairnryan or Portpatrick
 

route101

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Worth remembering that only a percentage of Scotland to London flights use Heathrow and BA have the monopoly for that. Pre Covid it was BA to Heathrow, London City and Gatwick, Easyjet to Luton, Stanstead and Gatwick, and Ryanair to Stanstead (possibly others, always avoid Ryanair if at all possible). The choice of destination airport would be based on budget and onward destination, so unless you are heading for the city centre it would be Heathrow and Gatwick if flying on to Europe/Worldwide or south and west of London, Luton for North of London and Stanstead for East Anglia.
What will be interesting post COVID is how the void left by the demise of Flybe will be filled, they had been the airline to use to get form Scotland to Birmingham, East Midlands and the smaller airports like Southampton and Exeter.
Loganair are picking up a fair few of the routes, but they chop and change. Ryanair stopped the domestics to Stansted.
 

BayPaul

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I think it was said in the days of the old Greenore-Holyhead route that it was too long for a day crossing and too short for a night one, and apparently this was always a challenge to its viability.
Sounds about right. Routes between 4 and 8 hours are a pain - too long to be a useful shuttle, awkward to schedule, expensive to crew (as you probably still need to double man many officer positions as the rest period at sea isn't long enough), but the day crossings are long enough to be boring for passengers, whilst the night crossings are too short for a proper rest.
 

route101

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Easy Jet have taken up the routes from Birmingham to both Edinburgh and Glasgow though, due to Covid the schedules are a little thin at the moment
I heard loadings were poor on the Glasgow to Birmingham Easyjet service even before Covid. Fares cheaper than Flybe but less flights a day, not sure why. I wonder if it will survive.
 

class26

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I heard loadings were poor on the Glasgow to Birmingham Easyjet service even before Covid. Fares cheaper than Flybe but less flights a day, not sure why. I wonder if it will survive.
It didn`t start from BHX to GLA until March 29, 2020 ie AFTER Covid so this is not a fair or realistic comparison. Flybe did 7 / 8 a day which loaded well and in BA days they flew 5 or 6 1 11`s a day and they were profitable. There is a market to both Scottish cities from BHX , do not doubt
 

route101

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It didn`t start from BHX to GLA until March 29, 2020 ie AFTER Covid so this is not a fair or realistic comparison. Flybe did 7 / 8 a day which loaded well and in BA days they flew 5 or 6 1 11`s a day and they were profitable. There is a market to both Scottish cities from BHX , do not doubt
I must of gotten confused or heard report during the summer. I think they do well with passengers that need to get to Birmingham in the morning, as train wont.
 

snowball

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Transport Scotland press release


Cabinet Secretary for Transport, Infrastructure and Connectivity, Michael Matheson has written to the Secretary of State for Transport, Grant Shapps following the publication of the Union Connectivity Review Interim Report.

In the letter, Mr Matheson urges the UK Government to use its role to improve transport connectivity to Scotland, without encroaching on devolved powers.

The actual letter is worth reading and begins like this:

Further to our call on 8 March, when we discussed the publication of the UK Government Union Connectivity Review Interim Report, I am writing to you to set out why the Scottish Government disagrees with the premise of the Review; the way in which it was established; the lack of consideration given to the role of the devolved administrations in relation to transport investment; and the ways in which the UKGovernment could use its role to improve transport connectivity to Scotland, without encroaching on devolved powers.

On rail it says:

The main mass transit mode between Scotland and England, in terms of passengers and rail freight, relies on two increasingly overloaded rail arteries (the West Coast and East Coast mainlines). It is imperative that we find solutions todeliver greater capacity on these routes to ensure longer-term economic sustainability and connectivity. Accordingly, I want the UK Government toaccelerate and expandHS2 to Scotland, via the West Coast and East Coast, potentially by means of dynamic bypassing of the existing lines as a credible and affordable strategy in addressing modal shift and emissions reduction, as well as improving capacity and connectivity. Also, to reiterate the agreement UK and Scottish Ministers have already made to identify options that could reduce the Anglo-Scottish rail journey time to a 3 hour target, rather than the 3 hour 38 minute journey time achieved by the baseline HS2 Anglo-Scottish service specification.It is imperative that all nations and regions of Britain benefit from the sustainable growth and prosperity that HS2 will deliver both in its construction and its implementation. I look forward to a commitment from your Government to commence design and development activity to deliver infrastructure that provides greater rail capacity throughout the routes of the West Coast and East Coast corridors. With regard to strategic rail freight, I have long argued, for rail freight to achieve its economic potential and our environmental objectives, the rail network requires all of its routes to Britain’s container ports to be electrified. The same issue now holds true in respect of connectivity to all the newly designated Freeports. Accordingly, I would welcome your commitment to address infill electrification on port routes as a matter of urgency.
 
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Bald Rick

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Good letter. Doesn’t seem to be written by someone who represents a patty with the primary objective of obtaining independence from Britain.
 

JamesT

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Noises off about transport: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politic...di_Edi_New_Reg20210503&utm_campaign=DM1407685

Anyone any idea beyond the headline?
The following is all the transport-related bits I could see in that article.
A “Union connectivity review” by Sir Peter Hendy, the Network Rail chairman, published by July, is likely to recommend higher capacity and improved journey times on train travel between England and Scotland, and major improvements to the A1.

It is likely to recommend better connections for passengers from the new HS2 line to Scotland and North Wales. It will also recommend better rail links between England and northern Scotland.

The Hendy review will also assess the feasibility of a “fixed link” – a bridge or more probably a tunnel – between Scotland and Northern Ireland.
 

ABB125

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A “Union connectivity review” by Sir Peter Hendy, the Network Rail chairman, published by July, is likely to recommend higher capacity and improved journey times on train travel between England and Scotland, and major improvements to the A1.
Good. Should be done on safety grounds alone; extra capacity is just an added bonus (or negative, depending on your point-of-view!).
It is likely to recommend better connections for passengers from the new HS2 line to Scotland and North Wales. It will also recommend better rail links between England and northern Scotland.
Why northern Scotland? Surely it would be better to improve links to southern Scotland, and then internally improve links within Scotland (which can then be paid for by Scotland rather than England :D)?
The Hendy review will also assess the feasibility of a “fixed link” – a bridge or more probably a tunnel – between Scotland and Northern Ireland.
Pointless in my opinion. If a bridge/tunnel is to be built, it should be between (near) Holyhead and (near) Dublin, which would be much more useful for everyone (except for Scotland). Unfortunately, this doesn't tick the boxes of "spend money in Scotland" and "fix the union", and also connects to (shock horror) the EU (Ireland), not the UK (Northern Ireland). So it won't happen.
 

snowball

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Good. Should be done on safety grounds alone; extra capacity is just an added bonus (or negative, depending on your point-of-view!).

Why is the A1 more deserving than busier or lower-standard roads elsewhere?

Why northern Scotland? Surely it would be better to improve links to southern Scotland, and then internally improve links within Scotland (which can then be paid for by Scotland rather than England :D)?

Possibly "between England and northern Scotland" is the Telegraph's typo for "between northern England and Scotland".

My guess is that that they do not have any new info about what will be in the final report than was available when the interim report came out on or about March 10th.
 
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