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Unions Moaning Over Maskless Passengers.

Bungle73

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Considering many of their own members are not bothering with masks they're making themselves look a little silly.

Only 20% of rail passengers are still wearing masks at train stations now that it is no longer compulsory, according to Network Rail.
That compares with 80% before restrictions were lifted on 19 July.
On buses and Tubes, Transport for London has retained mask-wearing as a condition of carriage in the capital.
There is no legal requirement to wear one on public transport in England, although it remains the case in Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland.
Several unions that represent transport workers say they are concerned that there has been a drop in mask-wearing, even on TfL services.
The unions fear it would be difficult to reintroduce mask-wearing if the government decided to do so.
A government statement said: "The guidance is clear that people are expected and recommended to wear a mask when they come into contact with people they don't normally meet in enclosed and crowded spaces."
"It is open to transport operators to decide if they want to implement their own policies, working within their particular environment."

'Serious issues over enforcement'​

Mike Lynch, general secretary of the RMT union, said his members had noticed a marked policy drift since the government changed the rules.
"Even on London Transport, where it is supposed to be a condition of carriage, just like paying a fare, the policy is coming apart at the seams and as more people see others failing to comply, the situation will escalate quickly over the autumn," he said.
Transport for London currently has more than 500 uniformed officers who are undertaking compliance activity on networks across London and non-exempt customers who fail to comply may be refused travel.
Siwan Hayward, director of policing and compliance for TfL, said: "Covid is still with us and we all have a role to play in doing the right thing and keeping each other safe."
Mr Lynch explained that there is a "serious issue over enforcement", meaning workers were "potentially put into the front line" ‎and were at risk of abuse and violence from people seeking confrontation.
"With the government already making compulsory mask-wearing on transport a contingency if cases escalate in the coming weeks, there is a real danger they won't be able to get the genie back into the bottle."

Pandemic control​

Mick Whelan, general secretary of train drivers' union Aslef, said his members had also noticed a change.
"[Mask-wearing] is mandatory - but not enforced - on TfL and we have noticed a decline, in recent days, in the number of passengers wearing masks," said Mr Whelan.
"We believe mask-wearing should be mandatory on trains - to protect passengers and staff and to control the Covid-19 pandemic."
IMAGE SOURCE,PA MEDIA
A spokesperson for Unite, which represents bus drivers, said: "Our members are reporting that mask-wearing on buses is collapsing and has got much worse in recent weeks.
"In some cases, there are very few passengers wearing masks on a bus, with those who tend to still wear a mask being older.
"For our members, while they are relatively safe when actually driving the bus because of the sealed cabs, there is growing concern that they are being placed in danger when they are required to board a bus at a depot to be taken to a rendezvous point to collect the bus they are allocated to drive.
"Due to buses getting busier, they can't socially distance and feel their health is being placed at risk by non-mask-wearers."
However, a spokesperson for the Rail Delivery Group said most people are "doing the right thing" and wearing face coverings, especially when carriages are busy.
"Travelling by train is as safe, if not safer, than other indoor activities, with ventilation that refreshes the air in carriages every six to nine minutes," a spokesperson added.
"In addition to expecting people to wear face coverings in crowded spaces, train operators are continuing with extra cleaning and we've improved information about the busier and quieter times to travel. This all means that people can continue to travel with confidence."

 
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yorksrob

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Wearing masks at stations was always a completely pointless exercise.
 

duncanp

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Wearing masks at stations was always a completely pointless exercise.

Fixed that for you.

I trust that all these people moaning about maskless passengers have been vaccinated.

Because if not, they have no business moaning about people not wearing masks.

You should have the right to refuse the vaccine if you want to, but you cannot expect others to endure extra restrictions (such as wearing masks) as a consequence of your choice.
 

nedchester

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Fixed that for you.

I trust that all these people moaning about maskless passengers have been vaccinated.

Because if not, they have no business moaning about people not wearing masks.

You should have the right to refuse the vaccine if you want to, but you cannot expect others to endure extra restrictions (such as wearing masks) as a consequence of your choice.
Nicely put.
 

AlterEgo

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I was asked by SWR if they could use my video on the Isle of Wight stock retirement for internal purposes, but also was I able to edit out the footage where I was at a station not wearing a mask?

The station in question was Brading, in between trains, and there were literally zero other passengers, and I was in the open air. Mad really.
 

yorkie

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I won't be wearing masks so they can sod off.

Unions tend to be full of far-left authoritarian type people who are unrepresentative of 90% of their member base, which is why I left my union.

Standard masks are completely ineffective and are pure virtue signalling.
 

Class 33

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How long do they expect us all to keep wearing masks for? Forever??!! It is now 2 months since mandatory face mask wearing laws were scrapped. And although on 19th July there were still surprisingly a high number of people still wearing masks, this has now declined over the past several weeks as more and more people get double jabbed and have the confidence to not have to wear masks anymore. Those unions and others moaning about the increasing number of "maskless" passengers need to shut up and get used to it. We need to completely move on from this face mask and (anti-) social distancing nonsense that we had to endure for over a year, and get completely back to normal.
 

VauxhallandI

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I am a member of Unite, I will be writing to them about this and offering them my resignation
 

Bikeman78

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Considering many of their own members are not bothering with masks they're making themselves look a little silly.



At the risk of repeating myself, what needs to happen for mask supporters to think that it's okay to go on a train without one?
 
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At the risk of repeating myself, what needs to happen for mask supporters to think that it's okay to go on a train without one?

Possibly a sustained period where infections / hospitalisations / deaths are decreasing or at least stable. Different people will focus on different numbers — it should really be hospitalisations and / or deaths now, not infections, but I know some people who still focus on infections. I am reassured by the hospitalisations and deaths not racking up despite relaxations and more and more people going back to life like 2019. I’m still waiting on my 3rd jab, but two weeks after that and I’d very likely be OK dumping masks outside of hospitals / GP / dentist waiting room, if the situation is as it is now.
 

kingston_toon

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Sadiq is whingeing about this yet again. He'd like a consistent nationwide set of rules on mask wearing. Hint: we already have that, and it's called personal choice as introduced by the government on 19 July. He's the one trying to do something different which, as my observations as a very regular Tube user would suggest, few people seem to agree with.
 

bramling

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Sadiq is whingeing about this yet again. He'd like a consistent nationwide set of rules on mask wearing. Hint: we already have that, and it's called personal choice as introduced by the government on 19 July. He's the one trying to do something different which, as my observations as a very regular Tube user would suggest, few people seem to agree with.

Mask use on LU continues to hover around 50%. A bit more in the morning, a lot less in the evening. Khan just can’t tolerate the fact people are dismissing his views on this. As a non-Londoner who has no ability to hold him to account at the ballot box, I regard him as politically illegitimate.
 

alangla

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ScotRail are still running regular PA announcements and social media posts saying that masks are a legal requirement on open platforms. They regularly get ridiculed for this on social media and their own station staff don’t appear to bother on the platforms, never mind the passengers.

Yep, I wish ASLEF in particular would just shut up about it.
All of the (few) ticket examiners I’ve seen recently have been wearing them, none (literally none) of the drivers, including ones either walking through the passenger saloon or changing crews at underground stations, so out on an enclosed platform, have been.
 
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NorthKent1989

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They can quite frankly sod off.

They, Khan, the Media and the Political classes need to accept that most of the general public has moved on from Covid and isn’t prepared to comply any longer.

On my daily travels mask usage is around 50% but that’s dropping to around 30% off peak.

I got into an Uber the other day and their company policy still requires passengers to wear masks, my driver never even asked me if I was exempt or not!
 

DelayRepay

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It's also interesting to note how the different parts of the UK are dealing with this.

Scotland: Mandatory masks and high case numbers
Wales: Mandatory masks and high case numbers
England: No mandatory masks, case numbers per 100,000 are much lower than Scotland or Wales

We've never really had evidence that masks are effective - I would suggest we now have evidence that they are not.
 

krus_aragon

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Sadiq is whingeing about this yet again. He'd like a consistent nationwide set of rules on mask wearing. Hint: we already have that, and it's called personal choice as introduced by the government on 19 July.
Nationwide consistency if you consider the nation to be England, of course. Mask wearing is still mandated in Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland.

It's also interesting to note how the different parts of the UK are dealing with this.

Scotland: Mandatory masks and high case numbers
Wales: Mandatory masks and high case numbers
England: No mandatory masks, case numbers per 100,000 are much lower than Scotland or Wales

We've never really had evidence that masks are effective - I would suggest we now have evidence that they are not.
All true, yet for much of the summer England had far higher case rates than Wales. The fact that local case numbers go up and down in waves makes it hard to compare different areas in a snapshot.

My impression is that Wales' continued restrictions stop the summer spread outside of holiday areas. South Wales had lower case numbers through much of the summer, with the majority of cases along the northern coast. But that isolation hasn't lasted, and case rates in the South are now higher than the North. Both areas had the same Public Health rules throughout.

The fact that so much of England's population got infected during the summer may also be helping keep new cases down now, as so many people have antibodies from recent infection. This may yet prove to be a masterstroke to top-up the population's immunity enough to get through the winter unscathed, but only time will tell.

But while I agree there's limited evidence that public mask wearing is effective, I don't think recent events form evidence that they're not, either.
 
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big_rig

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I really resent paying my union several hundred pounds a year or so given their position on discouraging public transport usage and not wanting rail staff to return to the office. I don't think they'll get my money in future if I make it through the 'modernisation' :)
 

nedchester

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I really resent paying my union several hundred pounds a year or so given their position on discouraging public transport usage and not wanting rail staff to return to the office. I don't think they'll get my money in future if I make it through the 'modernisation' :)
And the same unions will be up in arms when the redundancies start........
 

Merseysider

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And the same unions will be up in arms when the redundancies start........
They can quite frankly sod off.

They, Khan, the Media and the Political classes need to accept that most of the general public has moved on from Covid
Agreed.

The unions can moan all they want - if passengers are welcomed back onboard with sensible policies (ie 100% seating available, no compulsory reservation, no requirement to mask, food & drink buffets open again, etc) then their members will hopefully enjoy continued employment.

If the unions instead want their members to face redundancies due to poor passenger numbers, well, keep on pushing for unpopular restrictions/rules...
 

scrapy

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Unions tend to be full of far-left authoritarian type people who are unrepresentative of 90% of their member base, which is why I left my union.
This is almost always true. However management are often totally the otherway and only have the (usually very short term) business need as a priority. The result is usually a compromise that is generally the best result for 90% of the member base, despite union leaders and representatives not being a true representation of the workforce. You always go into negotiations asking for more than you want, and when safety is being negotiated the unions will always push the safety side with management pushing the business case and the result something which suits both.

In the case of masks people either wear them or they don't. So not much to negotiate over and there won't be a middle ground and this is something unions will probably lose. However it may mean it can get compromises elsewhere if they push the point.
 

Bantamzen

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It's also interesting to note how the different parts of the UK are dealing with this.

Scotland: Mandatory masks and high case numbers
Wales: Mandatory masks and high case numbers
England: No mandatory masks, case numbers per 100,000 are much lower than Scotland or Wales

We've never really had evidence that masks are effective - I would suggest we now have evidence that they are not.

But while I agree there's limited evidence that public mask wearing is effective, I don't think recent events form evidence that they're not, either.
There's practically no evidence whatsoever. And whilst the observational data doesn't necessarily prove that masks don't work on their own, it is at least something we can work with compared the the precious little evidence in favour of public mask wearing. More so when you look at countries like Japan that have much higher compliance, yet still can't stop the spread of it. The time has come to investigate if masks really are not very effective, but instead (as the WHO warned at the start of 2020) just result in people's behaviours altering.
 

LOL The Irony

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OH NO! PEOPLE AREN'T WEARING SOMETHING THEY'RE NOT REQUIRED TO WEAR! THINK OF THE CHILDREN! or something like that.
I trust that all these people moaning about maskless passengers have been vaccinated.
If they have, it show's they have little faith in the effectiveness of the vaccine
Khan just can’t tolerate the fact people are dismissing his views on this. As a non-Londoner who has no ability to hold him to account at the ballot box, I regard him as politically illegitimate.
He's a joke who enables Cressida Dick to crash from future scandal to future scandal, whilst doing nothing about the violence that sweeps London and yet still expects to be taken seriously. How he won the election a second time is anyone's guess.
They, Khan, the Media and the Political classes need to accept that most of the general public has moved on from Covid and isn’t prepared to comply any longer.
But will they though?
And the same unions will be up in arms when the redundancies start........
Demand the impossible and then moan when they get told to get lost. And they wonder why the view of unions in this country isn't great.
Unions tend to be full of far-left authoritarian type people who are unrepresentative of 90% of their member base, which is why I left my union.
That and they only act when it'll generate a headline. When my dad worked at Monarch, he was a member of Unite, but they never did anything and just focused on BA, because that's where the headlines were. They're also incredibly petty, the APT-E springs to mind.
 

bramling

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But will they though?

It suits the political classes to have everyone arguing about something as pointless as masks.

How about the unions raise the issue of people being unable to see their GP? I'd say one of our biggest health issues at the moment is the almost total lack of ability to see a GP, which must be causing massive amounts of health conditions, in particular cancers, to be being diagnosed late.
 

Bikeman78

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I really resent paying my union several hundred pounds a year or so given their position on discouraging public transport usage and not wanting rail staff to return to the office. I don't think they'll get my money in future if I make it through the 'modernisation' :)
My mate works for Network Rail. He's furious that most of his colleagues (that used to go by train) now drive to work because "it's not safe" to go on a train. If the people that work in the industry won't support it, who do they think will?
 

nedchester

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My mate works for Network Rail. He's furious that most of his colleagues (that used to go by train) now drive to work because "it's not safe" to go on a train. If the people that work in the industry won't support it, who do they think will?
A real banging your head against the wall situation.
 

Reliablebeam

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Mask use on LU continues to hover around 50%. A bit more in the morning, a lot less in the evening. Khan just can’t tolerate the fact people are dismissing his views on this. As a non-Londoner who has no ability to hold him to account at the ballot box, I regard him as politically illegitimate.
This is a problem with the idea of 'London Mayors' - they make decisions that have effects beyond Zone 6, especially as regards public transport in the London commuter zone - yet have no accountability to these voters....
 

bramling

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This is a problem with the idea of 'London Mayors' - they make decisions that have effects beyond Zone 6, especially as regards public transport in the London commuter zone - yet have no accountability to these voters....

It doesn’t help with their being such a focus on personality. I wouldn’t mind so much if these mayors were there to act more as a means of delivering projects.
 

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