Unknowing misuse of staff nominee pass - so worried

[LouiseSt]

i All,


I'm hoping for some advice after a very worrying run in this morning at London Liverpool Street.

I actually feel sick with the worry of it and cannot eat or sleep.

I travel to work in the City from Hertfordshire on Greater Anglia daily.
I have been in possession of a Staff Nominee Oyster pass for ten years now but have only used it for my journey over the past 8/9 months - ever since they installed Oyster Card readers at the station where i start my journey - which i mistakenly thought meant i could now use this pass!



I have certainly shown it to ticket inspectors on the service before and they have nodded at it and walked on.

It also always opens the barriers at London liverpool Street and off i go on my journey....until this morning.



This morning, as i exited the barrier, card in hand, a gentleman in a TfL uniform asked to check my photocard- he looked and said ok and off i went. He called me back a few seconds after to 'read' the card with a small handheld machine and said where have you travelled from this morning - I told him the answer.

He then said im handing you over to a Greater Anglia Inspector as your ticket is invalid.

I stood, confused, and waited for the Greater Anglia gentleman to come over
who then proceeded to ask how often i'd done that journey using the card
- i answered with an estimate, without hesitation and asked what the problem was, and if he was trying to fine me and if so why. To which he said you are not under arrest but gave me the 'you do not have to say anything...... etc - line' I became upset at this point and asked what was going on.

He asked me a number of questions,
called in my details and got me to sign a form when i said i had to leave after 30 mins with him as i'd be late for a meeting.

He said i would be hearing from the company and that it was my duty to know the terms and conditions of my passes use.

I was totally honest with my answers as i had nothing to hidebut since reading up on this i now see that i could face court/criminal convictions/thousands in fines- the staff member who nominated me may also lose his card/job?


I am a hardowrking, honest mother of two young children under 5 now in tears and worried sick about this.


Any advice on a likely outcome/action and best next steps for me would be very welcome.

Thank you so much all in advance.

 

[philthetube]

Speak to your union rep before doing anything, you will probably be told to tell your managers but union first.

 

[LouiseSt]

Thank you for taking the time to respond my husband is the employee not me so should he speak with his rep? It was a genuine mistake on my part with no intention to defraud the train company at all but I accept that the misunderstanding of the terms and condictions was entirely my fault/responsibility. Mistakenly I thought as it operated the barriers and let me through its use was legitimate and that’s also been checked and waved through on at least one previous occasion. I’m so worried about this potentially ruining things for our whole family now if I face prosecution and my husband faces issues at work. I’m so stressed by this I feel truly lost.

 

[Islineclear3_1]

What station do you usually travel from? Is it within the Oyster area?

 

[WesternLancer]

Thank you for taking the time to respond my husband is the employee not me so should he speak with his rep? It was a genuine mistake on my part with no intention to defraud the train company at all but I accept that the misunderstanding of the terms and condictions was entirely my fault/responsibility. Mistakenly I thought as it operated the barriers and let me through its use was legitimate and that’s also been checked and waved through on at least one previous occasion. I’m so worried about this potentially ruining things for our whole family now if I face prosecution and my husband faces issues at work. I’m so stressed by this I feel truly lost.

Yes, get your husband to speak to Union rep ASAP. It won't be the 1st time this has happened and the rep will almost certainly be able to give some advice, including when best for your husband to alert HR etc.

You've made a genuine mistake, just got to focus on sorting that out.

If you can, read the T&Cs of your pass to try and understand them correctly, so you can understand what you may (and may not) have done wrong.

Also probably worth going through your diary to list out the dates when you used it in a way that might be in error over the period you mention.

Also (if they work like this), perhaps you can log on to the Oyster journey account to get a list of trips, print this out (or screen grab and save it) so you have a record so you can start to look at your use and clarify in your mind when you may have been making use of it by mistake.

I'm sure others will be along with clearer knowledge of the card use conditions to help with other advice.

Try not to worry too much and good luck.

 

[LouiseSt]

I travel in from Rye House which is on the oyster system. It has no barriers but there are barriers at London Liverpool Street which allow me to enter and exit using the card. The gentleman said the issue was I was on a Greater Anglia service and not a TFL and that my oyster history was showing all incomplete journeys as Rye House was not recognised. I feel so afraid of the implications of this. I would and never have boarded a train without a ticket so the intention to not pay for my journeys was not there. I don’t know how I can prove this point though and therefore what consequences I will face.

 

[Islineclear3_1]

Isn't Rye House served only by Greater Anglia trains ?

If this is so, then surely the ticket inspector was wrong...?

 

[LouiseSt]

Yes Rye House is Greater Anglia only but does have Oyster facilities from TFL. His point was that with a TfL nominee card I couldn’t use that service?!

 

[Islineclear3_1]

Yes Rye House is Greater Anglia only but does have Oyster facilities from TFL. His point was that with a TfL nominee card I couldn’t use that service?!

Sounds barmy considering TfL doesn't operate services through Rye House...

 

[LouiseSt]

Well this is where my confusion has arisen but they were not willing to listen

 

[benk1342]

Sounds barmy considering TfL doesn't operate services through Rye House...

The TfL staff passes and nominee passes are issued as Oyster cards, but they are only valid on TfL services (plus a very few national rail services). They are not valid on the Greater Anglia services to Rye House, even though regular Oyster and contactless is valid there.

This is a common mistake (I know staff who have made similar errors) and if you are contrite and forthright from here on and can show that there was no intention to defraud I’m sure this can all be worked out and that your husband’s job will be safe.

Best of luck.
Ben

 

[Islineclear3_1]

@LouiseSt Does your husband regularly travel from Rye House using Oyster? Has he encountered any problems using it?

Do not worry, the forum experts will soon be along to advise as to what to do

 

[LouiseSt]

Thank you Ben. I was forthright as I wasn’t aware I had done anything wrong but he said it was my responsibility to be aware of the terms and conditions.

In terms of being contrite I couldn’t be more sorry or feel more embarrassed about this for both myself and my husband.
Thank you again for all of your time in reading and responding

 

[LouiseSt]

@LouiseSt Does your husband regularly travel from Rye House using Oyster? Has he encountered any problems using it?

Do not worry, the forum experts will soon be along to advise as to what to do

My husband does not commute for work so drives to his place of work and very very rarely uses his card at all which was the same for me until I mistakenly began using it from Rye House a few months back.

 

[najaB]

I actually feel sick with the worry of it and cannot eat or sleep.

I was totally honest with my answers as i had nothing to hidebut since reading up on this i now see that i could face court/criminal convictions/thousands in fines...

First things first - don't panic.

There's almost zero chance of a maximum fine (which is £1,000 not thousands). If you've been tapping in/out all the time then they should have a pretty accurate idea of the fares that haven't been paid so at worst I would expect you to have to pay those plus a fine that's likely to be less than £250.

I'll leave it to the Oyster experts to comment on the specifics of your situation.

 

[WesternLancer]

I didn't know what the staff nominee Oysters look like - but given the obv potential for innocent confusion maybe the Unions could get the employer to print on them clearly some of the basic T&Cs (eg 'valid only on TfL operated services') or some such. Maybe this is not a feasible option?

 

[furlong]

Did you tap in and out each day on the reader at Rye House? Or were you only tapping at the London end of your journey?

 

[ComUtoR]

Is this an issue with it being issued for 'leisure purposes only' Our staff passes for partners and kids etc are specifically for leisure/eduation only. Did they tell you which clause/term you have broken ?

 

[benk1342]

Is this an issue with it being issued for 'leisure purposes only' Our staff passes for partners and kids etc are specifically for leisure/eduation only. Did they tell you which clause/term you have broken ?

They’re not “leisure purposes only” - both staff and nominees are able to use them for their daily commutes.

It’s purely that TfL staff and nominee passes are not valid on that non-TfL line. So as the OP has correctly identified there are two issues. (1) With GA, that she did not have a valid ticket. This will be handled in the normal way. (2) With TfL, that she has (inadvertently) misused the pass. This means it could be subject to withdrawal or theoretically there could be disciplinary implications for her husband but in my experience this is unlikely if it was an honest mistake.

 

[benk1342]

I didn't know what the staff nominee Oysters look like - but given the obv potential for innocent confusion maybe the Unions could get the employer to print on them clearly some of the basic T&Cs (eg 'valid only on TfL operated services') or some such. Maybe this is not a feasible option?

I didn't know what the staff nominee Oysters look like - but given the obv potential for innocent confusion maybe the Unions could get the employer to print on them clearly some of the basic T&Cs (eg 'valid only on TfL operated services') or some such. Maybe this is not a feasible option?

They look like Oyster cards but are different colours. The staff ones are light blue and the nominee ones are green. The conditions are clearly posted on the staff travel intranet site but you’re right that it would be helpful if some key warnings were printed directly on the cards themselves.

 

[Mag_seven]

Did you tap in and out each day on the reader at Rye House? Or were you only tapping at the London end of your journey?

With staff passes there is no requirement to tap in or out except if required to open the ticket barrier gates.

 

[Aivilo]

Any nominee pass is generally for leisure and this is most likely what will be the issue

 

[LouiseSt]

So I tap at the barriers only so only at London Liverpool Street. Leisure use is not an issue here at all the issue is I’ve used a TfL card on a non TfL service mistakenly thinking I could with the Oyster machines being in place at Rye House and this being part of the network. When I’ve used my bank card from Rye House the charge on my statement is from TfL not Greater Anglia hence my misuse. Their argument will be that I should have been purchasing a monthly season ticket from Rye House to LST instead to the time of approx £280 a month hence my huge fear now of potentially thousands owed and ruin/embarrassment/prosecution/prison for myself or consequences at work for my husband who is truly innocent in all ways - it is me who has failed to use the card correctly but an honest mistake and one I’ve also had waved through by guards etc previously! I’m so worried about all of this.

 

[LouiseSt]

For clarity the back of my pass says for a copy of conditions of use please contact TfL at the following postal address (as in write and obtain them) which in ten years of holding the pass I have never done.

 

[WesternLancer]

For clarity the back of my pass says for a copy of conditions of use please contact TfL at the following postal address (as in write and obtain them) which in ten years of holding the pass I have never done.

I've got to say that's pretty poor. Obv it is your responsibility to check, but then the employer / card provider should make that easy to do and clear. It's obvious to me how you could make a genuine mistake here. Hope your husband can get to see a Union rep soon to help discuss the situation and get some advice.

 

[WesternLancer]

Presumably your alternative would be to have a 'public' season ticket Rye House to Cheshunt then use the London Overground service on to Liverpool Street, using the nominee card.

Not that that is your immediate problem at this moment of course.

 

[transplanted]

These passes are allowed for any purpose, commuting or leisure it doesn't matter.

The pass is only eligible for use on TfL underground services, tfl rail, dlr, overground, bus, tram and some select national rail routes.

The barriers open due to the overground and tfl rail services.

You can't look at your journey history on tfl app or website with a staff or nominee pass.

 

[LouiseSt]

Yes from what they have said Cheshunt to LST on a LO service would be permissible. This is such a mess! As far as I’m aware TfL aren’t involved in this only GA looking to take further as it was then who took my details and interviewed me under caution.

 

[LouiseSt]

These passes are allowed for any purpose, commuting or leisure it doesn't matter.

The pass is only eligible for use on TfL underground services, tfl rail, dlr, overground, bus, tram and some select national rail routes.

The barriers open due to the overground and tfl rail services.

You can't look at your journey history on tfl app or website with a staff or nominee pass.

The machine the revenue officer had could apparently see my journey history and indicated all incomplete journeys.

 

[Islineclear3_1]

The machine the revenue officer had could apparently see my journey history and indicated all incomplete journeys.

I'm guessing this is why you have attracted attention and put forward for investigation

I'm not sure if ignorance is a defence but I do really feel for you

If you did not tap in at Rye House yesterday morning, how would the card reader (that the GA Inspector had at Liverpool Street) "know" where you have travelled from?