Unpaid Train Fine

[Sehnsucht]

Hello

In March 2019 I was on the train from Tipton to Birmingham New Street without having purchased a ticket, I wasn't familiar with the train station and was running for the train, so I didnt think it would be a problem to buy it on the train from a conductor which I often do. This time I was fined 20 pounds. I didn't have a fixed address as I've been travelling so I gave an old address I no longer lived at, my name and email etc. The inspector told me to appeal and I would most likely get the fine struck off, I do so and forgot about it, assuming it would be. I jsut got an email from Lowell saying they are following up on their client and to call them. I know it has to be for this fine, I searched my email and found a message declining my appeal and saying that I needed to pay or there would possibly be charged/court proceedings. I didn't see it before! Now I'm extremely worried about the fine growing, or maybe there have been letters sent to that old address. Is there a possibility I've had a court summons or anything like that to that address? I'm travelling and not working at the moment and can't afford a large fine, so I don't know what to do.

How likely am I have to have a large fine or court proceedings over having not paid this fine? What do I do?

Thank you very much

 

[malc-c]

I can't help reading between the lines in your post and thinking there is more to this. Maybe I'm old fashioned but I do find posts like these hard to understand, in that you have gotten yourself into this mess, and given the circumstances have complicated the issue as people cant track you down.

I guess the only thing you can do is telephone whatever telephone number is stated on that e-mail that rejected your appeal, and explain to them that you have no fixed abode, you are travelling and there is a chance that you never received any letter as you are not at that address anymore. If it's been a while and has already gone to court then I'm guessing that it's already gone against you and there will be some form of fine against you. Either way you need to make contact with them or the courts (if its gone that far) and find out what can be done. If there is a fine then (and I have no legal understanding) it may be means tested which given your employment status may mean the fine is deferred. Whatever you do don't ignore things.

In future give yourself more time to find a ticket machine and purchase a ticket in advance. Don't assume that there will be a conductor who will allow you to purchase a ticket whilst already on the train, and (the part I find hard to understand as everyone has their faces in their phones these days) check you email daily.

Good luck

 

[ForTheLoveOf]

Hello

In March 2019 I was on the train from Tipton to Birmingham New Street without having purchased a ticket, I wasn't familiar with the train station and was running for the train, so I didnt think it would be a problem to buy it on the train from a conductor which I often do. This time I was fined 20 pounds. I didn't have a fixed address as I've been travelling so I gave an old address I no longer lived at, my name and email etc. The inspector told me to appeal and I would most likely get the fine struck off, I do so and forgot about it, assuming it would be. I jsut got an email from Lowell saying they are following up on their client and to call them. I know it has to be for this fine, I searched my email and found a message declining my appeal and saying that I needed to pay or there would possibly be charged/court proceedings. I didn't see it before! Now I'm extremely worried about the fine growing, or maybe there have been letters sent to that old address. Is there a possibility I've had a court summons or anything like that to that address? I'm travelling and not working at the moment and can't afford a large fine, so I don't know what to do.

How likely am I have to have a large fine or court proceedings over having not paid this fine? What do I do?

Thank you very much

Did you have any address at all at the point you gave your old address?

What exactly does the Lowell email say? Can you upload a photo of it (suitably redacted of personal details)?

How did you intend to pay for the ticket, and what time of day and day of the week did this happen?

 

[t_star2001uk]

Do Lowell buy debt from the railways. If they have only asked to contact them, it maybe for another matter.

 

[30907]

My guess would be that this firm are acting for the relevant train operator, and seeking payment of the Penalty Fare plus an amount in "administrative costs." Alternatively, the operator may be considering prosecution and asking for your account of events.
Either way, you would be well advised to reply.
I doubt that you have been issued with a summons already.

 

[Master29]

Do Lowell buy debt from the railways. If they have only asked to contact them, it maybe for another matter.

This is interesting because if the debt has been bought by another party, in this case Lowell does it still remain under the same rail regulations should Lowell decide to go for an enforcement? Does this now constitute a new contract? Don`t quote me on this however.

 

[t_star2001uk]

If lowell have purchased this debt then there must be a notice of assignment, if they are just pursuing then there must be an introduction from them to tell what they are doing. Lowell are a usually a consumer credit debt type of of collectors and debt portfolio purchasers. Thats why the OP should wait for a letter from them as an email is just a data phishing exercise.

 

[t_star2001uk]

This is interesting because if the debt has been bought by another party, in this case Lowell does it still remain under the same rail regulations should Lowell decide to go for an enforcement? Does this now constitute a new contract? Don`t quote me on this however.

'If' Lowell have purchased this, and thats a big 'IF', then they would have to use the same legislation that created the debt in the first place. Thats why i think the Lowell thing maybe for something else as they are 'usually' consumer credit debt purchasers and enforcers..

 

[Sehnsucht]

If lowell have purchased this debt then there must be a notice of assignment, if they are just pursuing then there must be an introduction from them to tell what they are doing. Lowell are a usually a consumer credit debt type of of collectors and debt portfolio purchasers. Thats why the OP should wait for a letter from them as an email is just a data phishing exercise.

Thank you so much for your reply. The problem is I gave an old address? I do not know if they've sent letters of any kind and have no way of getting that mail. It's only been a few months so I don't know, but I've heard of people ignoring these until they give up, as it was only 20 pounds. I just don't know however, and I don't want a huge fine accumulating because I ignored it. If I explain my circumstances havinf no income, low income background as well etc, surely they'll agree for me to pay a small amount over time or something of the kind?

Thanks again

 

[Sehnsucht]

Did you have any address at all at the point you gave your old address?

What exactly does the Lowell email say? Can you upload a photo of it (suitably redacted of personal details)?

How did you intend to pay for the ticket, and what time of day and day of the week did this happen?

I don't mind my name being posted here. This is the email and its very strange that they haven't given any details. I am wondering if they've been sending letters to my old address and only emailed when I didn't reply. If Lowell have bought my debt doesn't that signify they're really trying to gwt this paid and possibly considering some kind of prosecution or bigger fine?

Thank you

 

[AlterEgo]

The amount outstanding isn't likely to be just £20. I cannot see an agency like Lowell purchasing a debt this small without adding collection fees. You need to urgently contact them to find out what is owed and when.

 

[Sehnsucht]

'If' Lowell have purchased this, and thats a big 'IF', then they would have to use the same legislation that created the debt in the first place. Thats why i think the Lowell thing maybe for something else as they are 'usually' consumer credit debt purchasers and enforcers..

I don't have any consumer debt but I do have an old littering fine that I haven't paid either. I just remembered. I was told at the time by people that it's nothing to worry about but maybe I was being naive. I honestly have not heard of anyone having problems with this sort of thing as I know people with thousands in debt and I suppose I didn't think this was important. I may regrwt this.

 

[Sehnsucht]

Did you have any address at all at the point you gave your old address?

What exactly does the Lowell email say? Can you upload a photo of it (suitably redacted of personal details)?

How did you intend to pay for the ticket, and what time of day and day of the week did this happen?

I did not have a stable address that I could stay at for long enough, no. And I didn't want to use someone else's address althoufh maybe I should have. Such as a relative

 

[Sehnsucht]

The amount outstanding isn't likely to be just £20. I cannot see an agency like Lowell purchasing a debt this small without adding collection fees. You need to urgently contact them to find out what is owed and when.

I have extreme anxiety over things like this so I wanted to be more informed before I called! If I explain my circumstances do you think that will help with any fine or further action? Thank you

 

[Rockhopper]

You need to ring them rather quickly and find out whats going on.

 

[Sehnsucht]

I can't help reading between the lines in your post and thinking there is more to this. Maybe I'm old fashioned but I do find posts like these hard to understand, in that you have gotten yourself into this mess, and given the circumstances have complicated the issue as people cant track you down.

I guess the only thing you can do is telephone whatever telephone number is stated on that e-mail that rejected your appeal, and explain to them that you have no fixed abode, you are travelling and there is a chance that you never received any letter as you are not at that address anymore. If it's been a while and has already gone to court then I'm guessing that it's already gone against you and there will be some form of fine against you. Either way you need to make contact with them or the courts (if its gone that far) and find out what can be done. If there is a fine then (and I have no legal understanding) it may be means tested which given your employment status may mean the fine is deferred. Whatever you do don't ignore things.

In future give yourself more time to find a ticket machine and purchase a ticket in advance. Don't assume that there will be a conductor who will allow you to purchase a ticket whilst already on the train, and (the part I find hard to understand as everyone has their faces in their phones these days) check you email daily.

Good luck

I do feel responsible for this myself and disappointed in myself, not in a public service making sure everyone pays to use it. I just want to know what I'm dealing with as I am not in a stable situation. Thank you

 

[t_star2001uk]

The amount outstanding isn't likely to be just £20. I cannot see an agency like Lowell purchasing a debt this small without adding collection fees. You need to urgently contact them to find out what is owed and when.

What you have to take into account with collection agencies is, if they purchase a debt portfolio they will often pay 5-10% of the actual value. The older the debt the less they will pay. They then try to collect the full amount. They can only add collection charges if the original debt allows this to be added. Did the OP give the email address to the TOC as a contact. Rather than calling Lowells, first contact the TOC concerned and ask what they have done with the fine. Also look at you credit score using one of the free services, looking at the ' Search History' and that should give you more of a clue as to what this is about.

 

[t_star2001uk]

I do feel responsible for this myself and disappointed in myself, not in a public service making sure everyone pays to use it. I just want to know what I'm dealing with as I am not in a stable situation. Thank you

If your situation is difficult please visit the Citizens Advice Bureau or National Debtline for further advice. Lowells are obliged to take into account your circumstances and whether you are classed as vulnerable.

 

[AlterEgo]

What you have to take into account with collection agencies is, if they purchase a debt portfolio they will often pay 5-10% of the actual value.

What do you think the likelihood is of an agency like Lowell paying one or two pounds for a debt which they can only collect £20 on? The costs of collecting such a debt may end up being much higher.

Rather than calling Lowells, first contact the TOC concerned and ask what they have done with the fine.

We don't know that this is a fine, but it seems like it is a Penalty Fare. I'd advise not to contact the TOC, because at this stage my suspicion is the debt is much larger and may be for something totally unrelated to the railway. The OP seems to have upped and left to go travelling, and it's not unreasonable to think there may be another unknown debt which needs settling, or even an identity fraud going on where the OP is the victim.

 

[tony_mac]

Nobody has ever posted of a Train company passing on a debt to Lowell before, and it doesn't make a lot of sense for them to do it. Train companies have much more effective ways of getting the money they are owed; in this case, they still have time to prosecute.
There seems to be little point in speculating until you know what the 'debt' is about. It's even possible that it's for a different person with a similar name.

 

[t_star2001uk]

What do you think the likelihood is of an agency like Lowell paying one or two pounds for a debt which they can only collect £20 on? The costs of collecting such a debt may end up being much higher.



We don't know that this is a fine, but it seems like it is a Penalty Fare. I'd advise not to contact the TOC, because at this stage my suspicion is the debt is much larger and may be for something totally unrelated to the railway. The OP seems to have upped and left to go travelling, and it's not unreasonable to think there may be another unknown debt which needs settling, or even an identity fraud going on where the OP is the victim.

That's how the debt collection industry works. They buy a portfolio of debt for 5-10% of its actual value then collect on the full value. Fine or penalty fare, i was just going by what the OP has written in the original post.......

 

[Master29]

The amount outstanding isn't likely to be just £20. I cannot see an agency like Lowell purchasing a debt this small without adding collection fees. You need to urgently contact them to find out what is owed and when.

It does seem odd that Lowells are involved given TOC`s don`t usually pursue this route.

 

[Master29]

'If' Lowell have purchased this, and thats a big 'IF', then they would have to use the same legislation that created the debt in the first place. Thats why i think the Lowell thing maybe for something else as they are 'usually' consumer credit debt purchasers and enforcers..

In that case why did the original TOC not pursue this course in the first place. No, there may be more here than just a simple £20 penalty.

 

[MotCO]

Just a thought: do the Courts also use Lowells to collect fines? Has the case gone to Court, and now Lowells are trying to collect the fine imposed in the OP's absence?

 

[ajs1981]

I have extreme anxiety over things like this so I wanted to be more informed before I called!

As someone else who suffers from anxiety over similar situations I can understand this. My thought (and I am not a medical expert, just someone who has similar issues) would be that not dealing with the email from Lovells will make the situation harder to deal with in the long term. I know that sounds like I'm stating the obvious a bit. If you are not comfortable with dealing with them initially then, perhaps as suggested above, contact someone such as Citizens Advice first?

 

[Llanigraham]

I don't have any consumer debt but I do have an old littering fine that I haven't paid either. I just remembered. I was told at the time by people that it's nothing to worry about but maybe I was being naive. I honestly have not heard of anyone having problems with this sort of thing as I know people with thousands in debt and I suppose I didn't think this was important. I may regrwt this.

I suspect that the highlighted comment above may be important.
I have certainly heard that "fines" from Councils for such matters have been passed to debt collection companies.
The OP needs to urgently clarify with them exactly who has issued the initial charge.

 

[Sehnsucht]

Just a thought: do the Courts also use Lowells to collect fines? Has the case gone to Court, and now Lowells are trying to collect the fine imposed in the OP's absence?

If the case has gone to court and I haven't shown up, what kind of fine would that be? There's also a littering fine I didn't pay. I feel like such an idiot.

 

[AlterEgo]

That's how the debt collection industry works. They buy a portfolio of debt for 5-10% of its actual value then collect on the full value. Fine or penalty fare, i was just going by what the OP has written in the original post.......

No company pays one pound for a debt to collect £20. The collection costs alone would eliminate any profit.

I'm almost certain this isn't a Penalty Fare we are talking about.

I have not heard of Lowell collecting fines on behalf of a court either. It'll be something along the lines of an unpaid utility bill, phone bill, a bank debt, or the like.

 

[t_star2001uk]

No company pays one pound for a debt to collect £20. The collection costs alone would eliminate any profit.

I'm almost certain this isn't a Penalty Fare we are talking about.

I have not heard of Lowell collecting fines on behalf of a court either. It'll be something along the lines of an unpaid utility bill, phone bill, a bank debt, or the like.

No company pays one pound for a debt to collect £20. The collection costs alone would eliminate any profit.

I'm almost certain this isn't a Penalty Fare we are talking about.

I have not heard of Lowell collecting fines on behalf of a court either. It'll be something along the lines of an unpaid utility bill, phone bill, a bank debt, or the like.

I should have inserted the word ' Perhaps' before 5-10%. Anyway they do not purchase debt at face value, and if they have started purchasing debt from the railways, it would not be a single debt, it would more that likely be in the hundreds if not thousands of unpaid fines/ penalties...

 

[AlterEgo]

I should have inserted the word ' Perhaps' before 5-10%. Anyway they do not purchase debt at face value, and if they have started purchasing debt from the railways, it would not be a single debt, it would more that likely be in the hundreds if not thousands of unpaid fines/ penalties...

...and the costs of collecting any debt are likely more than £20. It used to cost between £14 and £18 to handle a single Delay Repay enquiry when I worked for the railways.

As I keep repeating, this is so unlikely to be about a £20 Penalty Fare that I urge the OP to call Lowell and find out exactly what it's about.