Unpopular opinions

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SprinterMan

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Hello Everyone,
Ever had an opinion that just about everyone on this site seems to disagree with? Well, this is the thread for them. :D I'll start us off:

Class 444>>>Class 442

Aside from smelly toilets, Pendolinos and Voyagers are in fact as comfortable as or better than most Mark 3 coaches.

IC70 seats are awful.

323s aren't brilliant.

FGW's HSTs are very comfortable and not claustrophobic at all, and the TVs are superb.

The 'one' brand was instantly recognisable and very strong, and NX were morons to kill it.

The XC network now is better than it ever has been before.

WSMR were doomed to fail from the outset, and it is better now that their superb stock has been put to good use.

Please leave your unpopular opinions, however bizarre or obscure :P
 
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tbtc

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Yorkshire, Yorkshire, Yorkshire
Hello Everyone,
Ever had an opinion that just about everyone on this site seems to disagree with? Well, this is the thread for them. :D I'll start us off:

Class 444>>>Class 442

Aside from smelly toilets, Pendolinos and Voyagers are in fact as comfortable as or better than most Mark 3 coaches.

IC70 seats are awful.

323s aren't brilliant.

FGW's HSTs are very comfortable and not claustrophobic at all, and the TVs are superb.

The 'one' brand was instantly recognisable and very strong, and NX were morons to kill it.

The XC network now is better than it ever has been before.

WSMR were doomed to fail from the outset, and it is better now that their superb stock has been put to good use.

Please leave your unpopular opinions, however bizarre or obscure :P
I think I'd agree with almost all of that (not used enough 442/444s to comment).

I'll add in:

  • Open Access is a waste of time/ resources/ paths
  • Running 125mph+ trains on a conventional railway (that shares lines with freight/ Pacers etc) is a waste of time/ resources/ paths
  • ATW and Northern are both running more services than at the start of the franchise, despite being "no growth"
  • What you call "overcrowding" is often just "not getting a double seat to myself"
  • Your local station isn't the worst on the network/ your local line isn't the most neglected on the network/ the grass isn't greener everywhere else
  • National Express have done more good than bad since privatisation
 

Robinson

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Class 170s are extremely pleasant and comfortable units.
Electrostars - ditto.
Southern is actually, on the whole, a very good TOC.
Walk-on is still better than advance in many situations, even for long-distance journeys.

By the way, I agree about Pendolinos and Voyagers.
 

MCR247

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7 Nov 2008
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9,086
Hello Everyone,
Ever had an opinion that just about everyone on this site seems to disagree with? Well, this is the thread for them. :D I'll start us off:

Class 444>>>Class 442

Aside from smelly toilets, Pendolinos and Voyagers are in fact as comfortable as or better than most Mark 3 coaches.

IC70 seats are awful.

323s aren't brilliant.

FGW's HSTs are very comfortable and not claustrophobic at all, and the TVs are superb.

The 'one' brand was instantly recognisable and very strong, and NX were morons to kill it.

The XC network now is better than it ever has been before.

WSMR were doomed to fail from the outset, and it is better now that their superb stock has been put to good use.

Please leave your unpopular opinions, however bizarre or obscure :P
I agree with all of those, except for 323s & 442s which although I've travelled on them I don't really have a strong opinion on them!
 

SprinterMan

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Class 170s are extremely pleasant and comfortable units.

Electrostars - ditto.

Southern is actually, on the whole, a very good TOC.
I agree with all of this, as long as the 170s have their interior pannels screwed in tightly, otherwise the rattling noises are ungodly.

SOU are very good, their 313 refurb puts FCC's to shame tbh. :)
 

Zoe

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Walk-on is still better than advance in many situations, even for long-distance journeys.
I agree but on some routes these days even Off Peak fares are getting to be unaffordable so the only option is to book in advance.
 

SprinterMan

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I agree but on some routes these days even Off Peak fares are getting to be unaffordable so the only option is to book in advance.
This.
SUY-BNG return is £65 for me with a railcard, but booking in advance I ahve got it for £24 before, a big saving. :)
 

ainsworth74

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There is nothing wrong with units, in fact just about all cases they are the best solution to any problem. Effectively LHCS is dead apart from special services such as the sleeper.
 

Zoe

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Bi-mode IEP is not a stupid idea. You can't electrify everything at once and the units will be able to take advantage of the electrification that is available. As and when electrification is extended to cover the entire route, the units can be converted to EMUs.
 

Schnellzug

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loco-hauled coaching stock is a flexible and versatile answer to just about any situation where there are large variations in demand, and is far more passenger friendly than diesel multiple units, and so should be the standard for inter-city services.

:lol:
 

Failed Unit

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Bi-mode IEP is not a stupid idea. You can't electrify everything at once and the units will be able to take advantage of the electrification that is available. As and when electrification is extended to cover the entire route, the units can be converted to EMUs.
Lol - but you don't need IEP because passengers don't mind cross platform connections. London - Aberdeen would be be perfect if the London train arrived at Waverley platform 8 and the Aberdeen one left on 9. The connection would never be missed and a wheelchair user with a suitcase would be happy.
 

317666

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Sprinters are brilliant, Turbostars are rubbish. Class 317s are brilliant, Electrostars are rubbish. Class 66s are good, Class 37s are boring. I could go on :lol:
 

fgwrich

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Virtually all Bombardier stock is outdated and poorly constructed - Rattling, easily stainable panels for a start, and dont get me started on reliability!

Adelantes vs Voyagers - Adelantes were a far better design and build, better looking, better designed - very similar to a Mk3, just a shame about their reliability...

444s Vs 442s - Living in joint SWT / FGW Land ive got quite a choice, and have used 444s since their introduction and dont get me wrong, like the rest of Siemens built rolling stock in this country they are excellent units...But give a refurb condition SWT 442 anyday over the 444s, with the original comfortable seats and the Snug / Buffet area...

BI Mode - It's not a bad idea, and i agree with it in principle, but like the rest of the IEP idea it's not being thought out properly - though sadly this is the Civil Servants in the dft trying to pretend that they know how to run a railway..

And that National express might have done more good than bad since privatisation - but since the East Coast debarcle, shouldnt be alowed near a major franchise again - C2C Maybe...

Those of the ones coming to the top of my head for the moment - I think this is going to be a partly disagreeable thread and partly agreeable!
 

Zoe

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Lol - but you don't need IEP because passengers don't mind cross platform connections. London - Aberdeen would be be perfect if the London train arrived at Waverley platform 8 and the Aberdeen one left on 9. The connection would never be missed and a wheelchair user with a suitcase would be happy.
It wouldn't be as bad if the connection was dealt with as though it was the same service and always held regardless of how late the arrival from London was. A direct train is always more convenient though.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Adelantes vs Voyagers - Adelantes were a far better design and build, better looking, better designed - very similar to a Mk3, just a shame about their reliability...
The class 180s did not have to be built to a tilt profile though.
 
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WestCoast

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Similar to Schnellzug; Loco hauled stock can be a modern, efficient and flexible alternative to Multiple Units on medium and long distance services e.g OBB RailJet, DB Regional Express.
 

SprinterMan

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Chester-Warrington Bank Quay is a very good line for scenery (at night).
I was doing CTR-WBQ at about 6am once, just before the sun came up so it was still completely dark, and the views of the big oil refineries that litter the route with all their lights on was amazing, like a christmas tree. The view from the viaduct at Frodsham was great. After Runcorn East, the sun had just risen above the horizon, and the swooping over the WCMl before joining at Warrington bridge, with Fiddler's Ferry power station, spewing out smoke like an entrance to hell, on the horizon, was brillaint. Warrington bridge is also very impressive.
 

Yew

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The disadvantages of LHCS are made up by the increase in passenger comfort compared to mordern IC DMU's, and about 50/50 for EMU's

A new batch of Carriages and some DBSO's and Lightweight CO-CO locos (or maybe a 20-esque loco at each end) would be useful for medium distance services that use 4-6 carriages
 
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scarby

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Passenger rolling stock 30 years ago was generally far far better than today.

Trains on many routes had much longer formations and there was a huge supply of stock. At busy times DMUs were just doubled up to increase capacity. If there was the same supply of rolling stock now there would be far less overcrowding problems.

First generation DMU seating was infinitely better; roomier and more comfortable. As was seating in Mark I coaches. The seats were all aligned to the windows. The overall design of the carriages was better on the eye.

It was much more pleasant to be able to open windows than have air-con.

Well, you did ask...
 

D6975

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Through London - Inverness/Aberdeen services should be withdrawn.
All London - Glasgow/Edinburgh services should be electric only.
Passengers for North of Glas/Ed should change from electric services to diesel services at Glas/Ed.
 

junglejames

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Bi-mode IEP is not a stupid idea. You can't electrify everything at once and the units will be able to take advantage of the electrification that is available. As and when electrification is extended to cover the entire route, the units can be converted to EMUs.
The funny thing is, if you dont go with IEP at all, you could easily save enough money to wire up enough extra miles to make bi mode worthless.
All you need then is a decent EMU (not IEP), and diesel locos to drag away from the wires.

Bi modes are fine, but not for Intercity journeys, and the IEP Bi mode is a nightmare. The extra cost to the railways is out of this world. Fares would rise, subsidy would rise.
Is the IEP bi mode even powerful enough to do a decent job? I know at one point it wasnt going to be.

No, Bi mode isnt a stupid idea (for medium length medium speed journeys), but no good for high speed Intercity journeys.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
As for unpopular opinions.
Out of all new stock since privatisation, Adtranz stock is up there as usually being the best for passengers. Electrostars and Turbostars are very good fleets. Siemens are just uncomfortable, bland and boring.
 

Jordeh

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Virtually all Bombardier stock is outdated and poorly constructed - Rattling, easily stainable panels for a start, and dont get me started on reliability!

Adelantes vs Voyagers - Adelantes were a far better design and build, better looking, better designed - very similar to a Mk3, just a shame about their reliability...

444s Vs 442s - Living in joint SWT / FGW Land ive got quite a choice, and have used 444s since their introduction and dont get me wrong, like the rest of Siemens built rolling stock in this country they are excellent units...But give a refurb condition SWT 442 anyday over the 444s, with the original comfortable seats and the Snug / Buffet area...

BI Mode - It's not a bad idea, and i agree with it in principle, but like the rest of the IEP idea it's not being thought out properly - though sadly this is the Civil Servants in the dft trying to pretend that they know how to run a railway..

And that National express might have done more good than bad since privatisation - but since the East Coast debarcle, shouldnt be alowed near a major franchise again - C2C Maybe...

Those of the ones coming to the top of my head for the moment - I think this is going to be a partly disagreeable thread and partly agreeable!
Most of them seem to be the prevailing opinions on this forum I think it's fair to say, far from unpopular.

Surprised I'm the first to say it but I think privatisation was very good for the railways.
 

NSE

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Well,
The 377 is the best class of train,
The Pendolinos and Voyagers are suitable and comfortable (apart from XC voyagers needing more carriages through the core),
After recent discussions with Zoe, Cambridge does not need an intercity service,
Thameslink Programme is not a good idea,
Southern could however operate both the current Southern and First Capital Connect franchises and I'd be happy,
HS2 is unnecessary,
And
My local station is fine just the way it is :)
 

Tim R-T-C

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Passengers do not need 'new' trains - they want comfort and reliability. I'd rather have cascaded sprinters and 322s on Northern than have to fork out via the ticket prices for new (and often unreliable and uncomfortable) rolling stock.

Variation (although good for spotters) is a waste of time and resources. Why continually re-invent the wheel when there are so many good designs out there - why are there only 16 class 333s for example?
 
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