Unsuitablilty of Merseyrail Pacers on longer routes (e.g. Leeds to Morecambe)

Discussion in 'Traction & Rolling Stock' started by yorksrob, 3 May 2015.

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  1. yorksrob

    yorksrob Veteran Member

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    Given that Northern Rail have a wide variety of 142s, every one of which has more comfortable seating than the Merseyrail abomination, what on earth possessed them to put one on a long journey like Leeds - Morecambe?

    Given the scarcity of services, I just know the damned thing will be on my return journey.

    Northern will be receiving a formal complaint.
     
  2. jcollins

    jcollins Veteran Member

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    Northern diagrams are for the type of unit only not type of interior.

    A 142 diagram could be any type of 142 interior. The same with 150s. They sometimes put the ex-ATN 142s in single formation on peak services out of Manchester, which is just as bad.

    Many of the longer services finish up being Pacers because Metro and Merseytravel offer financial incentives to Northern for using 156s and 158s on local services, so other longer services finish up with any old rubbish.
     
  3. 47802

    47802 Established Member

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    Yawn is this going to be yet another 20 pages moaning about Railbuses.

    Unfortunatly as jcollins says the Mersey abominations can turn up just about anywhere, not much point moaning about it really

    Lets just wait and see what happens regarding the next Northern Franchise
     
  4. D365

    D365 Established Member

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    At least it won't be 20 pages of suggestions for Class 442 haulage!

    But now that I mention it... :shock:
     
  5. yorksrob

    yorksrob Veteran Member

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    Yawn all you like.

    Given 142's are going to be with us for some time, these particular examples could do with being confined to shorter diagrams.

    I note also that the toilet tanks haven't been filled. This might be unfortunate at the end of the night, but is unacceptable at eleven o'clock in the morning.
    --- old post above --- --- new post below ---
    I would welcome a loco hauled 442.
     
  6. 47802

    47802 Established Member

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    Given Northern's random unit generator that's about as likely as me winning a million on lotto, especially as I don't even play lotto.:lol:
     
  7. 455driver

    455driver Veteran Member

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    He would moan like eff if the train was cancelled due to the only available unit having the wrong seats! :roll: :lol:
     
  8. yorksrob

    yorksrob Veteran Member

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    I certainly would.

    However, Northern's fleet is made up of many units which itself includes many different 142's.

    Just because I would prefer there to be a train than not (hardly the revelation of the year, given that I'm a rail traveller) that shouldn't preclude Northern exercising a little more care and attention in their diagramming.
     
  9. simon7929

    simon7929 Member

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    We never see them in the North East thankfully! It tends to be a mix of former ATN units or one of the Severn former FNW units which are allocated to HT. I have to admit they would be great in the summer for all the pushchairs travelling on the Saltburn to Bishop line with all that extra luggage space. However as soon as winter comes, NH can have them back.
     
  10. crehld

    crehld Established Member Senior Fares Advisor

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    I regularly use this route and previous experience tells me it's between a 144 (which have more comfortable seating, relatively speaking) or a 150 (sometimes you get the odd 153 coupled on the end of either). The 144s are usually out and about on the weekends and on the 1639 weekday service from Leeds (which is possibly the worst service to put these units on: passengers unable to board at Leeds, and still standing room only after Hellifield). The 150s usually work during the weekdays.

    However, over the last three weeks I've noticed 142s putting in an appearance too, and it seems to be a newish development.
     
  11. yorksrob

    yorksrob Veteran Member

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    Funnily enough, I concur with everything you've said, although I have had 142's on the line before - even the dreaded Merseyrail. Come to think of it, that was a bank holiday weekend as well!

    I remember using the line in the late 90's and getting a 155 I think!
     
  12. Jonfun

    Jonfun Member

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    Never had a problem with the ex Merseytravel units seating. Much more comfortable than that found in some of the (ex-LM?) 150s and on the 319s.
     
  13. 61653 HTAFC

    61653 HTAFC Established Member

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    True enough... The main problems are a lack of legroom, and the fact that the padding in some seats (mostly those with enough legroom!) has become so compacted it may as well not be there!
     
  14. yorksrob

    yorksrob Veteran Member

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    The back of the Merseyrail unit seat is the wrong shape and gives absolutely no back support, and the padding non existant, and that's aside from the leg room issues. A traditional 142 with 1980's bus seats is a palace on a wheels in comparison.

    The ex LM 150's are a bit scruffy, but the seats are infinitely superior to the Merseyrail examples as they have some padding and actually slope into the shape of the human back, rather than having a completely vertical seat back that is worse than useless.
     
    Last edited: 3 May 2015
  15. Stonesourscotty

    Stonesourscotty Member

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    The merseyrail 142's are worse than Urban 90 seats on buses there dire... i have previously let services go past if formed by them
     
  16. bramling

    bramling Established Member

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    Anything is better than nothing, but those seats really are awful, absolutely uncomfortable and the legroom is such that those with longer legs are literally wedged in. I bet that some large people physically cannot fit in the normal seats on these units.

    How the design ever happened is something else, but even with the limited life left it would be worthwhile replacing the seats. The original bus seats are much more comfortable, so it's hard to see why they were replaced. Many other 142s retain their original seats.
     
  17. HSTEd

    HSTEd Established Member

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    Clearly what we need is a formation of pacers operating as trailers hauled by a Class 442......
     
  18. childwallblues

    childwallblues Established Member

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    On trips that I have made to Sheffield recently I have noted that there are many more NH based units on local services. You only used to get HT 142s, NL 142/144 or NL 153/158.
     
  19. SpacePhoenix

    SpacePhoenix Established Member

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    Give that there's a shortage of DMUs is probably a case of they use them or don't run them services
     
  20. Paul Sidorczuk

    Paul Sidorczuk Veteran Member

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    I do know of a number of people who would never claim that "the original bus seats are much more comfortable".
    --- old post above --- --- new post below ---
    ....all en route to Booth's...:D
     
  21. yorksrob

    yorksrob Veteran Member

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    Or, confine them to shorter, local journeys would be preferable. Or, if all else fails, buy an old bus going for scrap and replace the seats with those.
    --- old post above --- --- new post below ---
    Out of interest, have they ever actually experienced a Merseyrail Pacer specifically, or are they getting confused with other less dreadful designs of seating used in the various Pacer classes?
    --- old post above --- --- new post below ---
    No, the 442's are good!
     
  22. Paul Sidorczuk

    Paul Sidorczuk Veteran Member

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    All of them are similar in age to me (70) and all are living in Aigburth and in Childwall, so I feel that they are well able to recognise an ex-Merseyrail Pacer.
     
  23. Arctic Troll

    Arctic Troll Established Member

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    The old bus seats are just as uncomfortable as the Merseyrail seats, it is just the legroom that is the issue.

    And if you think a Morecambe train is bad for one of them, try Manchester Victoria to Bradford on a Saturday teatime.
     
  24. Clip

    Clip Established Member

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    Preferable yes, but given you don't know whether it was a choice to run it or run nothing then at least you got a train and for that you should be happy about.

    Unless of course you know the health of Northerns own fleet and its maintenance schedule and how many dud units happened on its network that day.
     
  25. jcollins

    jcollins Veteran Member

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    The Merseyrail seats are generally in fairly good condition even if they are uncomfortable and are probably the worst train interior anywhere for leg room.

    Some of the old bus seats are in very poor condition. A new seat cover doesn't fix a worn out seat.
     
  26. crehld

    crehld Established Member Senior Fares Advisor

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    Being happy that a service exists and being satisfied with the quality of service are two different things. It has already been established further up the thread that a 142 rather than no service would be preferable, but if you pay a fare for a service and the quality of said service fails to live up to expectation then one is entitled to have a moan about it.

    As for whether it's a one off occurrence due to maintenance, the presence of these units on the line over the last three weeks (as noted further up the thread) would suggest to me this is a more permanent feature rather than a off stop gap measure... Unless northern are very slow at maintenance which I guess is entirety possible!
     
  27. jcollins

    jcollins Veteran Member

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    It could relate to Porterbrook taking one of the 144s back for conversion to an 'ePacer.'
     
  28. simon7929

    simon7929 Member

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    Couple of 319's are now in service in the NW so some DMUs are likely to be surplus.
     
  29. Arctic Troll

    Arctic Troll Established Member

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    The "surplus" DMUs have gone to Chiltern.

    Coincidentally people in the Chilterns tend to vote Conservative and people in the PTE areas don't.
     
  30. jcollins

    jcollins Veteran Member

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    I don't think they've actually gone yet but Northern have had to send a couple of 156s to TPE for crew training purposes.

    The 319 thread mentions 10 x 319 diagrams from May. Northern will loan 6 x 156s to TPE from May. One extra diagram is required for the Todmorden-Blackburn services and strengthening a Hazel Grove-Preston diagram was agreed a long time ago. That doesn't leave many DMUs for other lines, especially with the suggestion in the 319 thread that remaining Chat Moss diesel services will be 4 car not 2 car.
     
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