Untold truths-Great Train Robbery

[WesternLancer]

Re Ian Allan. I'm sad that the name will disappear, having bought (or been bought) their bus fleetbooks from the early 1950s, in particular the London Transport one, which were stocked in a local newsagent as I remember, then Buses Illustrated magazine in 1958, from which date I've basically been buying it every month. My entry into bookselling as a full-time occupation in 1986 saw me buying copious amounts of Ian Allan books over the years to stock my small bookshop, mostly bus and rail titles, and I had a good relationship with the sales rep who, in this particular case, had a much higher role in the organisation. I tended to steer clear of the Masonic titles, being fundamentally sceptical to say the least about it, but was always aware that they were part of the 'mix' which was confirmed in an obituary I read of Ian Allan himself a few years ago, which revealed his involvement in the 'movement.' The magazine titles were sold off years ago, Pen and Sword Books took over some of the forthcoming bus titles, with mixed results, although I understand didn't buy any from Ian Allan. Crecy were involved too years ago, before I ceased involvement (almost!) in bookselling a couple of years ago. I never went into an Ian Allan bookshop (coals to Newcastle?) but now regret not going into the Waterloo one, from which on principle I would almost certainly have bought a title, at full price too, otherwise I'd loathe myself for ever more!

Yes, Ian Allan was quite a key 'brand' name so seems odd to me that the buyers would not retain it - unless it was not on offer of course.

 

[Taunton]

For Ian Allan as a company, I doubt the Old Man would have let the transport publishing go, but after his death three years ago his heirs and successors saw no value in it. IA's autobiography seems to point in this direction. It had previously been an integrated operation, with in-house printing, and the mags targeted at their book audience provided a substantial advertising channel. Even their motor dealers business around Surrey has shrunk to a fraction of its former scale. The old Terminal House head office at Shepperton appears sublet or abandoned.

 

[Busaholic]

Yes, Ian Allan was quite a key 'brand' name so seems odd to me that the buyers would not retain it - unless it was not on offer of course.

It's probably not well-known to contributors to this forum, but Ian Allan were very prolific in publishing military and aviation books too, even before their integration with Midland Counties Publications which specialised in titles like 'Bomber Command Losses March-November 1941' at very high prices (I had a customer who ordered every new title in the series) and it's that market that Crecy were interested in, I guess. Pen and Sword Books in Yorkshire, which was almost exclusively a military publisher, had already taken on some railway/bus titles, with variable results I guess: their newer bus titles are advertised every month in Buses mag at 25% discount with free p&p.

 

[g.satchwell]

A BOOK LAUNCH for 'GREAT TRAIN ROBBERY CONFIDENTIAL' has been arranged for Wednesday 9th October in a quiet old pub near Waterloo Station. Obviously, I need to keep a handle on the
numbers attending, so will those who would like to attend i drop me an email at [email protected] as soon as possible.

 

[Gonzoiku]

A BOOK LAUNCH for 'GREAT TRAIN ROBBERY CONFIDENTIAL' has been arranged for Wednesday 9th October in a quiet old pub near Waterloo Station. Obviously, I need to keep a handle on the
numbers attending, so will those who would like to attend i drop me an email at [email protected] as soon as possible.

Can't make it to the launch, but as Graham knows from another posting, I went ahead to order from Amazon. Received it on Saturday at lunchtime, finished it in time to cook Sunday lunch - yes, it's that readable! You will see my Amazon review here when they get around to approving it.

GZ

 

[g.satchwell]

Can't make it to the launch, but as Graham knows from another posting, I went ahead to order from Amazon. Received it on Saturday at lunchtime, finished it in time to cook Sunday lunch - yes, it's that readable! You will see my Amazon review here when they get around to approving it.

GZ

Wow! Thanks GZ. That put a smile on my face.

 

[JohnBarstow]

I read somewhere that immediately after the robbery BR changed its manual to say that cab doors were to be locked and that train crew were not to leave the cab at red lights.

Had these rules been in place at time of robbery the robbery would have been much more difficult to carry out.

 

[edwin_m]

I read somewhere that immediately after the robbery BR changed its manual to say that cab doors were to be locked and that train crew were not to leave the cab at red lights.

Had these rules been in place at time of robbery the robbery would have been much more difficult to carry out.

As far as I know drivers have always had to leave the cab at most red lights (or send someone else) to contact the signaler by phone if provided or by walking to the box (rule K3 formerly rule 55). Radio is now used instead for some signals, but trains didn't carry it in the 1960s. Never heard of this rule being suspended generally, or was it only for trains carrying valuable items?

 

[Tom Quinne]

I read somewhere that immediately after the robbery BR changed its manual to say that cab doors were to be locked and that train crew were not to leave the cab at red lights.

Had these rules been in place at time of robbery the robbery would have been much more difficult to carry out.

You’d be a job with that, prior to GSMR national radio network drivers would have to use the SPT as CSR or NRN was very poor in most areas.

 

[Ashley Hill]

I read somewhere that immediately after the robbery BR changed its manual to say that cab doors were to be locked and that train crew were not to leave the cab at red lights.

In the back of my mind this sounds familiar. It covered out of course stops on nominated parcel and postal trains. Perhaps a glance at a 1972 rule book could shed some light.

 

[Efini92]

Sorry if it’s already been covered, I’ve just joined the thread. If the train was stopped in an IB section it would’ve been track circuited throughout.
Given the time of 0300 it’s possible the signalman could’ve fell asleep after passing the train on. It seems strange however that the next box along hadn’t noticed the train had never entered section.

 

[ChiefPlanner]

Sorry if it’s already been covered, I’ve just joined the thread. If the train was stopped in an IB section it would’ve been track circuited throughout.
Given the time of 0300 it’s possible the signalman could’ve fell asleep after passing the train on. It seems strange however that the next box along hadn’t noticed the train had never entered section.

We have covered much of this in previous comments , - but there was a proviso in the signalling regulations for this - clear instructions on a train offered on by another box , but not appeared - Reg 16 "Train unusually long time in section"

I have certainly known this to be applied in service , and something that was usually picked up by the signalling inspectors (with approval in the cases I can think of) , when train register checks were made.

Another (unofficial) way of doing it , at the receiving box - was to send a long string of bell codes- say 4-4-4-4 to the other box , known as a "wake up call" , and maybe a phone call later on. ....

 

[Tom Quinne]

The gang went to such lengths to get a driver etc, is it not possible they got to the two signallers concerned to look the other way ?

 

[Puppetfinger]

Thanks to all for the recent posts to this thread, ordered my copy last night. The event itself was before my time but enjoyed the BBC dramatisation a few years ago,so looking forward to reading the book @g.satchwell.

 

[Tom Quinne]

My copy arrived yesterday, really looking forward to starting it next week on nights.

 

[Railwaysceptic]

Thanks to this thread, I've now in the past few days read both books by Mr. Satchwell and have enjoyed them hugely. I'll read them again in about six months but this time An Inspector Recalls will come first. (That's a brilliant title. I'm sure J. B. Priestley would have been amused!)

 

[g.satchwell]

Hi 'Railwaysceptic', when I first read your 'handle' I thought you must be an American. Then I realised I had misread it - 'sceptic' not 'septic.'

Anyway, thank you very much for the kind comments.

Given the amount of time spent researching and writing a book, there would be a better (much better)
financial return on the time invested by taking up a paper round.

But the buzz of reading comments like yours brings a smile to my face and makes it
worthwhile.

Thank you again, 'sceptic' if I may be that informal!

Best wishes,
Graham.