Unwanted V250s finally find use

Discussion in 'International Transport' started by Bungle965, 21 Aug 2017.

  1. Bungle965

    Bungle965 Established Member

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    http://www.railjournal.com/index.php/high-speed/trenitalia-reveals-plans-to-modify-v250-fleet.html
    I'm sure like allot of other things produced by AnsaldoBreda significant work is going to have to be done to ensure they work.
    Sam
     
    Last edited: 21 Aug 2017
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  3. LNW-GW Joint

    LNW-GW Joint Veteran Member

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    Some more information here: http://www.railwaygazette.com/news/...nitalia-agrees-to-acquire-v250-trainsets.html
    They will mostly be concentrated south of Rome.
    Note that Hitachi, who now own the manufacturing plant at Pistoia, will not be taking on responsibility for the design (though they will be doing some upgrade work).

     
  4. sarahj

    sarahj Established Member

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    Thats a bit unlike to railjournal in their reporting. Returned due to the 'collapse' of Fyra. errrr, it went wrong as the trains were late and had the build quality of a Lada* and the reliability of a chocolate fireguard.



    *I know someone will say, Lada's, built to last, but the ones imported into the UK had to be rebuilt by the importer and have you seen one in a crash, they just disintegrate.
     
  5. Bungle965

    Bungle965 Established Member

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    I seem to remember the 'collapse' of Fyra was down to the V250s exceptionally poor reliability and them having to be withdrawn from service.
    Sam
     
  6. sarahj

    sarahj Established Member

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    I thought thats what I said. Oh well. :|
     
  7. Bungle965

    Bungle965 Established Member

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    Yes! Sorry should have read through what you said a bit more, I was simply agreeing with you that Fyra's demise was down to the V250s themselves.
    Sam
     
  8. Groningen

    Groningen Established Member

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    Hope that there is in southern Italy no snow, freezing rain or other stuff falling down in the winter.
     
  9. Wolfie

    Wolfie Established Member

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    Hmmm... state-owned company leaned on to take ("buy"?) old junk to bail out another company (Finmeccanica, AnsaldoBreda's former owner - Hitachi had the sense to go nowhere near this rubbish) where the state is a significant shareholder...

    Cynical, moi... Wonder how this aligns with EU rules on state aid?
     
    Last edited: 21 Aug 2017
  10. duesselmartin

    duesselmartin Member

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    Interesting that the rubbish will be dumped in the south. No Milanese will ever be bothered with it ;)
     
  11. MarcVD

    MarcVD Member

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    Still some snow in North Italy during winter sometimes... Sending them south should help avoiding some very predictable *incidents*.

    Envoyé de mon SM-T819 en utilisant Tapatalk
     
  12. eastwestdivide

    eastwestdivide Established Member

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    News article (in Italian) on these trains at:
    http://www.ferrovie.it/portale/articoli/7336

    saying that they've got a unit doing test runs on the high speed lines around Naples, with the line blocked to other traffic.
    They're now designated ETR.700, and should be in regular Frecciarossa service from Dec 2018.
     
  13. LNW-GW Joint

    LNW-GW Joint Veteran Member

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    It just parallels what is happening at Alitalia, which the state will not let die or be absorbed by the big boys.
    Trenitalia is now a UK (and Greek) operator, of course, and is supposed to be readying itself for partial privatisation (to pay for the last EU Italian bailout).
    It will be fun if they win West Coast and run HS2 with First.
     
  14. Bletchleyite

    Bletchleyite Veteran Member

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    I really, really hope they don't.
     
  15. Iskra

    Iskra Established Member

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    It snows in Southern Italy too. The whole of the South is mountainous away from the coast.

    As a regular visitor to the South, I'll be happy to take a ride on these for the novelty if nothing else.
     
  16. axlecounter

    axlecounter Member

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    Why not?

    According to supposedly reliable rumours the V250 will be doing Frecciarossa trains in northern Italy.
     
  17. Bletchleyite

    Bletchleyite Veteran Member

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    Because I don't think TI are any good (and I don't like the Romance pseudo-airline approach to high speed rail)! But it's OT for this thread.

    As for the V250s, they are pig-ugly as well as technically rubbish. Will be interesting to see if they are made to be reliable.
     
  18. Royston Vasey

    Royston Vasey Established Member

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    One does worry about the Class 802s being made by AnsaldoBreda's Pistoia plant... hopefully now with a full Hitachi quality management system :lol:
     
  19. Bletchleyite

    Bletchleyite Veteran Member

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    I too am concerned about the 802s from the AnsaldoBreda plant being rubbish.
     
  20. axlecounter

    axlecounter Member

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    So, everything out of Italy is rubbish...:rolleyes:
     
  21. 43096

    43096 Established Member

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    In terms of rolling stock, that’s a pretty good first assumption. Ask NS, SNCB, DSB, Manchester Metrolink and numerous others what they think of Italian build quality.
     
  22. Bletchleyite

    Bletchleyite Veteran Member

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    There's a reason why FIATs are known as "Fix It Again Tomorrow".

    Italy is culturally good at design flair - but not at heavy engineering.
     
  23. gingerheid

    gingerheid Member

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    There's no escaping the fact that AnsaldoBreda were very often too awful for words; Fyra was not an isolated incident (though at least they didn't give one Fyra's trains to Gadaffi...) :(
     
  24. Bletchleyite

    Bletchleyite Veteran Member

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    And it strikes me that such a major cultural change at an established business is incredibly difficult. Therefore, I fear the products will still be rubbish (in terms of build quality; at least they now don't get to design them any more).

    Mind you, when I rode an 800 I observed quite a number of build quality issues, and that I think was a Japanese built one - I was shocked.
     
  25. LNW-GW Joint

    LNW-GW Joint Veteran Member

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    They seem to have made a pretty good fist of their high-speed network though, including some very long tunnels, and most of the trains are locally built.
    Over here the Fiat-designed Pendolinos are pretty good (didn't start too well, granted), but there's French Alstom in there too, not to mention Preston electrics.
     
  26. Royston Vasey

    Royston Vasey Established Member

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    Nobody said that :rolleyes:
     
  27. TheSeeker

    TheSeeker Member

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    I was on a Fyra commuting to the Netherlands on the second day of service (which I think was a Monday morning). Train crew had had little training and couldn't work the PA or doors correctly. Snow didn't help either. I remember we got as far as Roosendaal and we changed onto NS. Not the best time of year to start a new service.
     
  28. Darandio

    Darandio Established Member

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    Yet had they done so they wouldn't be far from the mark!
     
  29. EAD

    EAD Member

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    Parking some of the stereotypes being bandied about (I say this as someone married to a Sicilian so am well versed in some of the intra and extra Italian views held by people), here is hoping the ETR 700s as they will be actually work in service after the mods and testing given what they have inherited!

    For those interested Italian sites have a few articles on the testing, mods etc. This is on the testing on 13/14 April on the high speed line from Naples towards Rome (and back). PM is Posto di Movimento i.e. a location with points to cross over and often loops http://www.ferrovie.it/portale/articoli/7336

    And this one is on the works at Hitachi http://www.ferrovie.info/index.php/it/42-primo-piano/4866-ferrovie-procedono-i-lavori-sugli-etr-700-di-trenitalia-ex-fyra-v250.
     
  30. Chris125

    Chris125 Established Member

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    Hopefully it's more an issue with how they've been designed than anything fundamentally wrong with the factory, the Frecciarossa 1000s built at Pistoia in a joint venture with Bombardier seem to have turned out ok?
     
  31. 43096

    43096 Established Member

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    The issue - at least with the Fyras - was primarily with the build quality, which was abysmal (abysmal, not just poor) although there were also some design flaws.
     

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