Upcoming Northern Strikes / Advances

[Deerfold]

I've need to travel a couple of times in the near future between Preston and Leeds.

I've looked up on Northern's websites travel on 09/02/19 and 23/02/19.

I happen to know that the first of these dates is a strike day and that on previous strike days no trains have run on this route.

The website offers me tickets and an itinerary for both dates on direct trains - including advance tickets for the 23rd without any warnings about strikes affecting them.

What would be my position if I were to buy either of these tickets. Just a refund? The ability to travel via Manchester and TPE?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Just a refund, there is no acceptance for Advances. Or if there is any service running, travel on the Northern trains that do run.

 

[mikeg]

I disagree. This may be Northern's position but it is flagrant violation of the NRCoT. Where the OP is not able to travel on a booked service, Northern must offer assistance. In any case, the OP cannot be left stranded by the railway, the NRCoT states that

28.2. Where disruption prevents you from completing the journey for which your ticket    is valid and is being used, any Train Company will, where it reasonably can, provide    you with alternative means of travel to your destination, or if necessary provide    overnight accommodation for you.

It is not for Northern to opt out of this, and if TPE are in a position to help where Northern have failed, they must do so.

 

[Deerfold]

Just a refund, there is no acceptance for Advances. Or if there is any service running, travel on the Northern trains that do run.

Only the ticket on the 2nd date is an Advance.

Is it not rather poor for Northern to give no indication there may be problems with these itineraries?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Only the ticket on the 2nd date is an Advance.

Is it not rather poor for Northern to give no indication there may be problems with these itineraries?

Yes, I think it is appalling - but that's yet another example of Northern's management for you. No Northern Only Advances should be on sale for any Saturdays until this is resolved.

Really, what they should do is put the strike timetable in the system for the foreseeable future to stop people planning for it, or put a note on every service warning it may not run.

 

[mikeg]

Is it not rather poor for Northern to give no indication there may be problems with these itineraries?

Yes it is, though they seem to think it's okay if passengers blame the RMT and not Northern for not honouring their commitments. The RMT have taken lawful strike action, to which Northern respond by unlawfully depriving passengers of their rights. Irrespective of whether the strike is productive, to me it speaks volumes of which is the worst party in this.

 

[ForTheLoveOf]

Only the ticket on the 2nd date is an Advance.

Is it not rather poor for Northern to give no indication there may be problems with these itineraries?

It's exceptionally poor but there is no real way of holding them to account over it.

Whether it's an Advance or a flexible ticket, @mikeg is correct that if Northern can't or won't transport you, any other TOC in a position to do so must help, regardless of formal "acceptance" or lack thereof.

 

[ForTheLoveOf]

No Northern Only Advances should be on sale for any Saturdays until this is resolved.

That wouldn't entirely solve the problem though. There are still those lines or stations which are only served by Northern and which don't tend to get trains on strike days. And what about Northern only walk-up tickets?

Blocking the sale of Northern only Advances would be one option but I suspect it has revenue implications for Northern, whereas the current approach is fine by them given they are doing this all on the DfT's payroll.

put a note on every service warning it may not run.

That might work on their website, but certainly far from all people will use their website - those who book elsewhere wouldn't see such a warning.

Perhaps this issue, as well as that of timetable changes and confirmations generally, means that the data structure should be changed so that TOCs can add a message to timetable data as to whether or not running is confirmed?

 

[30907]

I have just checked Skipton Carlisle on NRE so I presume the situation is the same across Northern.
1. Times are amended now for 2 Feb.
2. There is a warning about industrial action for 9 and 16 Feb and no Advances are available for those days.

 

[sheff1]

Just a refund, there is no acceptance for Advances.

What makes you say that ? Northern's FAQ page says acceptance is in place for Advances:
https://www.northernrailway.co.uk/strike/tickets

"What if I have a Northern Advance Purchase ticket to travel on a strike day?
Customers with Advance Purchase ticket (your ticket will say ‘AP Northern only’) have a number of options:

Customers can use their ticket for trains on either the day before or the day after the strike, but are advised to travel close to their original booked train times on these days.

We have also arranged ticket acceptance on a number of other train operators to help Northern customers with Advance Purchase tickets (your ticket will say AP Northern only).

The following operators will accept these tickets: Cross Country, East Midlands Trains, TransPennine Express, Transport for Wales, Grand Central, Hull Trains, London North Eastern Railway and Virgin Trains. Customers are advised to travel as close as possible to the original booked train times on these days."

 

[robbeech]

A key issue is if you purchase an advance for a service that doesn’t run due to strikes but you travel on an alternative service later (or the following day) then your delay repay request will be denied and you will be told to request a refund from the retailer. Of course the retailer will reject this (rightly so) and leave you with nowhere to go. I can only assume this is deliberate by Northern to thin out a few more claims from people that give up as they don’t have time to chase it.

I agree they are obligated to get you to your destination but they simply will not do this as they feel they are above the law.
I don’t think it hurts for passengers to try their best to adjust their travel plans to avoid incident but in the cases where there is simply no alternative, like a late evening Nottingham to Sheffield after the last EMT service leaves before 2100 iirc then they should be doing something about it.
A gentleman in his 70s was stranded at Nottingham station overnight the other week with an advance for one of the late evening trains. Northern refuses to help. EMT who run the station refused to help (both have not followed 28.2 there). This is Northern. This is what they do, this is what they get away with. Nobody that works there can personally suffer from this, they’re not personally liable, they don’t have to pay anything out of their own pocket so they have no worries.

 

[ForTheLoveOf]

This is Northern. This is what they do, this is what they get away with. Nobody that works there can personally suffer from this, they’re not personally liable, they don’t have to pay anything out of their own pocket so they have no worries.

Indeed, this is a major problem - members of staff might know the correct rules, but even if they do (which I would wager the majority don't), internal company policies or briefings may mean they'd be subject to disciplinary action if they sent the customer in a taxi at Northern's expense, for example.