Upcoming SWR driver pay deal

pompeyfan

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As many are aware, ASLEF are currently negotiating a pay deal that was due in April 2019 for SWR drivers. Whilst I fully expect the drivers to take a pay deal to take full door control on 701s (and future compatible stock), is there a chance the union (or its members) might sacrifice a small part of that pay rise to negotiate the agreement to state they’ll do the doors but not move a train without the guard on board?

I’m very much aware everyone is bored of the whys and why not of DOO, and to avoid getting my collar felt by the admins I want to make it specifically clear I’m only interested in how the union works in terms of its driver members and if this would be something they’d be interested in and how they would feed this back up to the boardroom.

EDIT: date corrected after information from @theironroad
 
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grid56126

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ASLEF state clearly that there will be no extension of DOO in their charter:

https://www.aslef.org.uk/charter.html

No extension of Driver-Only Operation (DOO) schemes or introduction of DOO in the form of DCO or any other name. All current DOO(P) schemes to be revisited and safety risk assessed with a policy of all trains having a second person who is trained and licensed at least to the standard required to carry out the duties of guard as detailed in the industry rule book.

But then they said that at GTR and quietly allowed East Grinstead and Rainham to be added to the list of routes TL drivers had not previously worked DOO proving that a small input of tenuous links to custom and practise will see them take the silver over their chater quite easily.
 

nuts & bolts

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But why would/should they need to negotiate for a safety critical guard in their terms & conditions. It was promised in the current franchise contract that guards are guaranteed for the 7 year life life of franchise.
 

pompeyfan

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But why would/should they need to negotiate for a safety critical guard in their terms & conditions. It was promised in the current franchise contract that guards are guaranteed for the 7 year life life of franchise.
In which case the company should have no problem writing it into the drivers contract.
 

theironroad

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As many are aware, ASLEF are currently negotiating a pay deal that was due in November 2018 for SWR drivers. Whilst I fully expect the drivers to take a pay deal to take full door control on 701s (and future compatible stock), is there a chance the union (or its members) might sacrifice a small part of that pay rise to negotiate the agreement to state they’ll do the doors but not move a train without the guard on board?

I’m very much aware everyone is bored of the whys and why not of DOO, and to avoid getting my collar felt by the admins I want to make it specifically clear I’m only interested in how the union works in terms of its driver members and if this would be something they’d be interested in and how they would feed this back up to the boardroom
Not sure why you think November 2018.

SWR mainline drivers (i.e. not depot drivers) have a pay anniversary date of 1 April and it is the April 2019 pay deal that is outstanding right now.
 

theironroad

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But why would/should they need to negotiate for a safety critical guard in their terms & conditions. It was promised in the current franchise contract that guards are guaranteed for the 7 year life life of franchise.
AFAIK there was no guard guarantee from first/MTR at any time hence the strikes started.
 

nuts & bolts

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AFAIK there was no guard guarantee from first/MTR at any time hence the strikes started.
We’re going to go off thread with this, and I don’t want @pompeyfan having his collar felt:)

So just to be clear on the point you have raised.
The DfT placed this requirement ‘in the life of the franchise’ it’s set in stone!
 
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slicedbread

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11 Oct 2012
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Would this be a good place to ask a question that's been bugging me.

It keeps being mentioned that DOO(P) is in the SWR drivers contracts, but what is it?

I (think) I know DOO is driver only operation but what does that extra P stand for?
 

Economist

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24 Feb 2013
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Why do ASLEF and the TOCs generally wait until the old pay deal has come to an end before starting to negotiate for a new one? I know it's not always the case but it does seem to favour the TOC slightly since it seems drivers are more likely to vote for an early deal to get the back pay.
 

Bigfoot

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Usually because the TOC wants to change terms and conditions or introduce a new practice/training aspect or traction and the union will use this as a bargaining tool.
 

WA_Driver

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As many are aware, ASLEF are currently negotiating a pay deal that was due in April 2019 for SWR drivers. Whilst I fully expect the drivers to take a pay deal to take full door control on 701s (and future compatible stock), is there a chance the union (or its members) might sacrifice a small part of that pay rise to negotiate the agreement to state they’ll do the doors but not move a train without the guard on board?

I’m very much aware everyone is bored of the whys and why not of DOO, and to avoid getting my collar felt by the admins I want to make it specifically clear I’m only interested in how the union works in terms of its driver members and if this would be something they’d be interested in and how they would feed this back up to the boardroom.

EDIT: date corrected after information from @theironroad
From my understanding ASLEF haven’t spoken to it members or discussed in an open forum about what they are hoping to achieve in this pay deal. One district council member saying ‘the new stock is coming there’s no stopping it, drivers will be operating doors’ and also said it down to company to tell ASLEF what they expect & how much they are willing to pay for it.

I think ASLEF are happy for drivers to go without a second ‘safety critical’ person. Son it’s going to left to drivers to vote yes or no

A quote from the divisional update:

‘As you're all aware we have been engaged with pay negotiations for around 8-months, and those talks are now reaching a conclusion. We had a ‘final’ set of meetings planned for late January, but they have now been moved to mid-February. The primary reason for this was the recent industrial action as the management team were ‘distracted’ from their day jobs throughout December, thus not finalising the offer. We’ve also had a change of MD which has a knock-on effect to people’s diaries, but rest assured we will be concluding the talks fairly soon, hopefully at the meetings in February in all honesty.
Once we have an agreement in principle, we will furnish the EC with the details, meet all our local reps, prior to the offer going out to our Driver members for referendum.
What we can say, at this moment in time, is that we are reasonably happy with the negotiations so far and we don’t believe the recent franchise announcement will affect the outcome of those discussions. Nor will it result in Driver redundancies on SWR, in fact the complete opposite as we physically can’t recruit and train Drivers quick enough to support the advertised WTT.’
 

Surreytraveller

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ASLEF state clearly that there will be no extension of DOO in their charter:

https://www.aslef.org.uk/charter.html

No extension of Driver-Only Operation (DOO) schemes or introduction of DOO in the form of DCO or any other name. All current DOO(P) schemes to be revisited and safety risk assessed with a policy of all trains having a second person who is trained and licensed at least to the standard required to carry out the duties of guard as detailed in the industry rule book.

But then they said that at GTR and quietly allowed East Grinstead and Rainham to be added to the list of routes TL drivers had not previously worked DOO proving that a small input of tenuous links to custom and practise will see them take the silver over their chater quite easily.
Wave enough money in people's faces, and they'll agree to anything
 

387star

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The SWR offer is not at present the Southern deal

Guards are guaranteed
Guards remain safety crit (although losing route knowledge?)

Door duty passed to Drivers is of course the same

So it is the same as the 2015 GWR proposals when Mark was also MD and which resulted in only a few days of strikes before an agreement was reached with the union which was AFAIK a Driver open Guard close deal
 

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