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Update on various London rail schemes

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Rational Plan

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Well that did not take long.

Two images of TFL's preferred options for Crossrail 2.

http://www.transportxtra.com/magazines/local_transport_today/news/?id=28776

crossrail2autometro.jpg


The first is for an automated metro line, which is pretty much just the core Chelsea Hackney route between Kings Road and Hackneys Downs, with an extension to Seven Sisters in the North and Clapham Junction to the South.

Then there is their regional metro option.

crossrail2regional.jpg


This is much more interesting. Again we have a core route but with fewer stations in the core because of their size. The tunnel would start at Wimbledon and then divert to Tooting Broadway, where it could intercept traffic from the Southern end of the Northern Line, before going back to Clapham Junction.

At the Northern end it is even more creative and reminds me of the two eastern branches of Crossrail 1. The line diverges into two tunnels at Angel, where one goesto Hackney and then Tottenham Hale before surfacing and taking over the West Anglia line to Hertford East. The other line goes to Dalston, Seven Sisters, Wood Green and then Alexander Palace. This line would intercept traffic on the other branch of the West Anglia, Northern Piccadilly and the Great Northern lines.

It seems to me this is TFL's attempt preempts Network Rails concerns particularly in the South West, while sneakily squeezing a few more suburban stations. Only one Northern Line takes over Suburban rail services, the other intercepts suburban traffic at interchange station, coincidently acting as a new suburban line for TFL.
 
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HSTEd

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Where would all the trains go?
They would need a lot of turnback platforms somewhere unless they take over virtually all the SWML and WAML services, not just the ones to Hertford East.

6tph to Alexandra Palace and 18tph via the WAML in the north and the trains spread between the southern branch routes?

Is that route to Wimbledon the same as the one in the earlier proposals?

EDIT: Nvm, it appears that southern route to Wimbledon is entirely new, which could cause a tonne of headaches.
Also, any reason you couldnt take over the Epping Branch of the Central line as well and use it to spread more of the trains out in ways that dont saturate the West Anglia Main Line?
 
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Rational Plan

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Where would all the trains go?
They would need a lot of turnback platforms somewhere unless they take over virtually all the SWML and WAML services, not just the ones to Hertford East.

6tph to Alexandra Palace and 18tph via the WAML in the north and the trains spread between the southern branch routes?

Is that route to Wimbledon the same as the one in the earlier proposals?

EDIT: Nvm, it appears that southern route to Wimbledon is entirely new, which could cause a tonne of headaches.
Also, any reason you couldnt take over the Epping Branch of the Central line as well and use it to spread more of the trains out in ways that dont saturate the West Anglia Main Line?

I would imagine in the North they would be 12 trains each (assuming 24 trains an hour) they could easily build several turnbacks as there would be no need for 12 trains an hour to Hertford East. The western most branch looks to be entirely in tunnel.

In the South you could have four for each branch except Woking where you could have 8 trains an hour. There is no end of places where they could turn trains around in SWT territory. I don't see what the difficulty is with the Southern portal, it has a new station below Wimbledon, with the entrance the south of the Station, with a bit extra track that would get you two of the branches at Raynes Park.
 

tbtc

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I don't think that the "unbalanced" service numbers will stop the planners, given the lop-sided Crossrail numbers (with half of the services not planning to go beyond Paddington)
 

jopsuk

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I'd assume the second option would include four-tracking Tottenham Hale to Chesunt, or even possibly Broxbourne? That would then allow all trains from the WAML to run that section fast, and might even allow "slow" trains from Bishops Stortford or even Cambridge to call at the stations from Tottenham Hale to Liverpool Street.

I'm also guessing that outside of the "core" on the second one only "principal" stations have been shown?
 

Rational Plan

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Here is some greater detail.

crossrail2metrooptions.jpg


It appears that Essex Road, Piccadilly Circus and Kings road are optional.

crossrail2regionalmetrooptions.jpg


This really is the big scheme option.

One alternative for the Metro option is to miss a few central stations and extend the line to Tooting Broadway and Wimbledon. Thereby reducing interchange at Clapham and still relieve the district.
 

ntg

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I'm still perplexed by ally pally. I suppose the core of the route is the same but the amount of safeguarding required for the regional version seems to be double that. I'd hazard a guess we'll see the central section as "phase 1" and the rest as subsequent phases if they prove viable.

Interesting to see "Euston St Pancras" as one (double ended) station

Indeed, the station would amalgamate Euston, Euston Square, and Kings Cross St Pancras it seems, quite an impressive conglomeration.
 

jopsuk

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That'd be interesting on oyster if you were foolish enough to use the Northern or Vic to get from Kings Cross to Euston. Could this be the first station complex to feature more than one stop in a row on the same line?
 

cle

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I guess if it is a SWT replacement with 10-12 car trains, double-ended stations would be possible.

Maybe a diagonal TCR station, with an exit in central Soho could cover off Piccadilly.
 

swt_passenger

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That'd be interesting on oyster if you were foolish enough to use the Northern or Vic to get from Kings Cross to Euston. Could this be the first station complex to feature more than one stop in a row on the same line?

That will already be the situation with a number of Crossrail (1) stations by then won't it? Eg Barbican/Farringdon will effectively be a dual station complex...
 

stut

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Ditto Moorgate and Liverpool Street.

It's rather similar to the Paris RER, with stations like Auber and Chatelet-les-Halles.
 

jopsuk

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That will already be the situation with a number of Crossrail (1) stations by then won't it? Eg Barbican/Farringdon will effectively be a dual station complex...

You're right, it will, with sequential Circle/Met/H&C stops at either end.
 

ntg

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I don't think there's a conflict with Oyster. Just if you're really silly you pay tfl to use their tunnels rather than tax funded streets!
 

tbtc

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I guess if it is a SWT replacement with 10-12 car trains, double-ended stations would be possible.

Maybe a diagonal TCR station, with an exit in central Soho could cover off Piccadilly.

Maybe thats the way forward - you only need to build half the stations. With a train being over 200 metres long a single entrance isn't going to distribute passengers very well along the coaches anyway.
 

HSTEd

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Can we have a High Speed Crossrail using Cl395s? :D Pleeeasse

Fixed formation ten carriage Cl395s which run all stations in the core of Crossrail (using those spare slots that apparently exist), then use a crossover from the slow lines to the fast lines and run to Bristol like a conventional service at 125/140mph.
They could also do something at the other end but I don't know.
 

Rational Plan

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Can we have a High Speed Crossrail using Cl395s? :D Pleeeasse

Fixed formation ten carriage Cl395s which run all stations in the core of Crossrail (using those spare slots that apparently exist), then use a crossover from the slow lines to the fast lines and run to Bristol like a conventional service at 125/140mph.
They could also do something at the other end but I don't know.

No, the have already decided that West Coast Mainline slows will use (LM) will use the spare slots from the west.
 

mr_jrt

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No, the have already decided that West Coast Mainline slows will use (LM) will use the spare slots from the west.

...which is such a shame, as I think that whilst it's a far bigger project (electrification, all the loops reinstated, and probably some quad tracking), using those paths for Chiltern line metro services over the old link makes so much more sense than the WCML slows, which are fine for now, but once they use Crossrail as an excuse to save money by cutting capacity at Euston it'll be gone forever.

The stations on the section of line between Northolt and Neasden Junctions have such a poor service and nearby alternatives that aside from Wembley Stadium for events, they may as well close (which would then enable all the metro services to be Crossrail and give Marylebone the capacity to handle more Mainline services and perhaps as well taking over the Met north of Rickmansworth too), but if they were deemed important enough to save, then a new branch of the Jubilee from Neasden could work out well here (with the Met stops moved to Neasden as well, plus whatever interchange happens with the West London Orbital proposals) by taking the services that terminate at Wembley Park (though you'd also want to restore the quad tracking to keep them segregated).

Personally, I'd like to see future provision built into the Euston rebuild for a North-South Crossrail to go via TCR and Waterloo. I'm just talking the platform box and approach tunnels, though I guess fitting them out as an additional pair of terminal platforms at build time wouldn't be so bad, but failing that some use would be found for them until needed.

That lot all has a great complementary "synergy" to it.
 

swt_passenger

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What is the current status of the link between St Pancras International Low Level & ECML?

The junction areas at the St Pancras end are currently being worked on, (IIRC oleman mentioned it in a post a few weeks ago) but the tunnel civils work has been completed for a few years. The ECML end of the tunnel is visible on various satellite views, such as Google maps. Don't expect any trains for a good few years though, nothing's expected to run until 2018...
 

anthony263

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Seems the go ahead has been given to the Croxley Green railink according to the Watford Observer.

Offical annoucement to be made tommorow
 

DXMachina

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Seems the go ahead has been given to the Croxley Green railink according to the Watford Observer.

Offical annoucement to be made tommorow

Croxley resident here: There have been mailshots to the surrounding area announcing it already, over a week ago in fact. I did think it was odd that there was nothing in the press.

Signs up at local stations making it appear it had already been decided too.
 

Tim B

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Croxley resident here: There have been mailshots to the surrounding area announcing it already, over a week ago in fact. I did think it was odd that there was nothing in the press.

Signs up at local stations making it appear it had already been decided too.
If this really happens I might even be tempted to vote Conservative in gratitude and happiness !
 

Chris125

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If this really happens I might even be tempted to vote Conservative in gratitude and happiness !

Before you get too excited its probably wise to see whats planned for CP5 - there's already been a suggestion that TPE and East-West arent extra investment, just the same money spent earlier.

Chris
 

swt_passenger

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Before you get too excited its probably wise to see whats planned for CP5 - there's already been a suggestion that TPE and East-West arent extra investment, just the same money spent earlier.

Chris

TPE electrification was definitely in the CP5 proposal - so has been brought forward, but EWR wasn't really mentioned except in passing, as it was up until recently a local authority sponsored scheme.
 
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