Updates on communication

[Mojo]

Back in January we introduced a system whereby members automatically receive a PM to advise them that the post or thread they created has been deleted, and the reason for the deletion. This was introduced on a trial basis and we would like to know your opinion; please vote in the poll above. Should feedback prove satisfactory we will leave this in place on a permanent basis, but making adjustments where necessary.

Further to this, it has been noticed that quite a lot of new threads recently have been posted in the incorrect forum. I'd therefore like to ask that when making a new thread please check the forum in which you are creating a new thread is correct. Some common mistakes are posting London Underground topics in one of the National Rail forums (there is a LU subforum) or posting questions about rolling stock in the NR General Discussion forum (there is a Traction & Rolling Stock forum). If you're not sure of the right place to post, please ask a member of forum staff.

In order to help educate those who post in the wrong forum, and also to help those find threads which have been moved, we are expanding on a trial basis the automatic PM system to advise thread starters when their thread has been moved and what forum it has been moved to.

 

[MCR247]

The thing with the PMs if you ask me, is that if you post a lot, you just get a PM saying 'your post in this thread was deleted' which isn't very helpful, if you can't remember what it said!

It would be so much better if it could say what the post said, so you know what you did wrong etc

 

[Ivo]

The thing with the PMs if you ask me, is that if you post a lot, you just get a PM saying 'your post in this thread was deleted' which isn't very helpful, if you can't remember what it said!

It would be so much better if it could say what the post said, so you know what you did wrong etc

I would second this. I would however like to say that such PMs are often accompanied by a further one (usually from yorkie in my experience) detailing what has happened, as was true when he deleted a thread I made (I shan't go into details about the thread, but it was a potential security risk that neither he nor I was aware of!), and that this has been very helpful. If this could be merged into the automatic system, it would help further.

 

[Mojo]

It would be so much better if it could say what the post said, so you know what you did wrong etc

If you had done something wrong then you would probably receive a warning, infraction or follow up message.

As you have received none of these, then you are probably okay

 

[DaveNewcastle]

Yes, it is helpful to be advised automatically.
If a Personal Message expands on the action then that would be a very considerate and welcome additional message.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

I had once a few weeks ago saying a post had been deleted which appeared to be vecause the thread it was in had been deleted, but yet I could not find any of my posts missing at all, so several weeks later I am none the wiser as to which one it was...

So yes, a bit more detail, including reasons, would be useful...

 

[SS4]

Do you want us to report threads that are posted in the wrong place using the report button? (I know one forum that does this). If so the rules could do with being amended.

I've deleted all my post removed PMs so can't verify what's given

 

[Jordy]

No we don't want you to do that, the report post function is just for emergencies as it states - thanks anyway

Note: This is ONLY to be used to report spam, advertising messages, and problematic (harassment, fighting, or rude) posts.

It is not to be used for reporting duplicate posts and is not to be used for general queries, issues with signatures or requests for posts to be edited/deleted (unless they fall into one of the categories mentioned above).

 

[martinsh]

I've never received a "Post Deleted" PM, but would think it is a good idea.

But should people be alllowed to read THIS thread if they are not logged in ?

 

[ainsworth74]

But should people be alllowed to read THIS thread if they are not logged in ?

Why shouldn't they be allowed to read it if their not logged in?

Also just like to add like others above it is useful to get a PM when I've had a post deleted (I've had one or two) but it would also be useful to get a follow up PM as to why it's been deleted (as Mojo did once and it was very appreciated ).

 

[yorkie]

It can be very time consuming to PM people when posts are deleted, and that is what an automatic system is for*. A reason is given (we have to choose a reason), this should be sufficient in most cases. A common one is a meet topic, it may get to 10 pages and I may then cut it down dramatically (and add useful info in the 1st post so people don't have to read loads of pages!), the reason would be "Forum tidy" and I would hope people would find that obvious!

* But of course this is not always sufficient, e.g. if it was something complicated or the post contained confidential info, or there was some unusual reason then I would expand on the auto PM by sending a proper PM myself.

I am encouraged to delete more posts in the fares & ticketing forum where people post inaccurate advice, but it's usually quoted and corrected by subsequent posters before I see it. The problem then is there is no point in me deleting the inaccurate advice if I don't also delete the correction(s) which can be time consuming (more so if people want custom PMs rather than 'Refers to content in deleted post' ) so it is difficult to satisfy all these demands. (Also, what if the inaccurate advice has been left for many hours, and I then see it? Do I then correct it, or delete it? Problem with deleting it and not quoting/correcting is that people may have already ingested the duff info and believed it and may not notice if it is simply removed). However your feedback is important and does help us to make decisions on what to do in certain situations.

We are a bit limited by the software (as excellent as it is) at times. It's a shame it can't say which post exactly was removed (MCR247 your request is noted and shared by me!), but that's a limitation we are stuck with at present. But these things do develop, so who knows.

As for stuff in the wrong forum, it would be good if there was a way to report this, perhaps some software will become available to us at some point (other than the reporting system, which we prefer to keep for genuinely 'concerning' content only).

By the way people who do use the reporting system to report spam etc, we are very grateful. Again it'd be great if there was a way of easily giving feedback but there isn't (that I know of). However all reports are read, even if we feel no action is required, but I think it's safe to say the vast majority are acted on. There are a lot of spam "bots" registering these days and I particularly thank people for reporting those. At the end of the day if it isn't reported we may not see it (or, if we do, perhaps not for hours).

 

[Ivo]

How many different reasons are there? I ask this because I recall having three different codes, two of which (01 and 03) are very close together, but the other (98) is miles away! Surely there aren't 98+ different reasons for a post to be deleted?

For reference:
01 = Requested by individual
03 = Contains confidential information
98 = Forum tidy

N.B.: Regarding the Fares & Routeing section, leaving our mistakes present does of course help us learn from them. If these mistakes are then removed, and we forget what has happened, how can we learn from it?

 

[Jordy]

There are 39 deletion reasons at the moment, the reason the numbers seem random is because we have left gaps (they are currently listed in some kind of order) so more can be added if need be.

 

[ralphchadkirk]

Personally I find the automatic pm's very useful. I can't remember whether they include the thread title though. If they do then it shouldn't be too much trouble to include the content of the post that was deleted.
Regarding posts being deleted for inaccurate info, I don't think this should happen. A vast amount of issues in FT&R come down to the basis of an opinion due to unclear rules. That area is not the only place where advice is asked ( see the CRB thread), sonic this rule was to be implemented then it would have to be a blanket rule.

 

[DaveNewcastle]

N.B.: Regarding the Fares & Routeing section, leaving our mistakes present does of course help us learn from them. If these mistakes are then removed, and we forget what has happened, how can we learn from it?

Interesting PoV.

I'm unhappy about leaving factual errors in that specific sub-forum if they could ever be used in a manner that led to an unnecessary expense, inconvenience, unlawful travel, misinformation to others or a prosecution.
If the Forum staff have a tool which allows misinformation to clearly marked as such, then I'd agree with leaving them, otherwise I'm unable to support the suggestion that they remain indistinguishable from 'approved' or 'corrected' posts.
(This view doesn't apply in other sections where errors and unsubstantiated opinions are comparatively benign).

 

[theblackwatch]

One of the reply codes we have is 'Incorrect Information (removed to avoid confusion)', so the OP should actually learn from it when they read why the post has been removed.

 

[ralphchadkirk]

To be honest, I think the misinformation problem is actually, quite small. If people are facing court/penalty fares/complaints and they are basing their defences and questions on what has been said by unknown persons on the internet, then they really are being a little silly.
Perhaps the solution is to just have a disclaimer at the head of the FT&R section saying that the members/forum take no responsibility for losses incurred should the advice prove to be incorrect.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

One of the reply codes we have is 'Incorrect Information (removed to avoid confusion)', so the OP should actually learn from it when they read why the post has been removed.

But how can they if the content of the post is not included in the PM?

 

[Peter Mugridge]

With fares and routings wouldn't the regular updates to the routing guide - such as has happened this week - render an awful lot of recent advice invalid overnight, thus complicating the matter?

 

[theblackwatch]

To be honest, I think the misinformation problem is actually, quite small. If people are facing court/penalty fares/complaints and they are basing their defences and questions on what has been said by unknown persons on the internet, then they really are being a little silly.
Perhaps the solution is to just have a disclaimer at the head of the FT&R section saying that the members/forum take no responsibility for losses incurred should the advice prove to be incorrect.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


But how can they if the content of the post is not included in the PM?

Perhaps people should remember what they wrote!

 

[ralphchadkirk]

Perhaps people should remember what they wrote!

True, but if it is an active topic, where you have posted a lot, and you get a post deleted, how is anyone meant to know exactly what they have written?
All that is needed to solve the problem is just to include the post content in the automatic PM.

 

[theblackwatch]

If someone posted a lot and can't remember it, I think it's a sign they have posted too much! :P

 

[ralphchadkirk]

If someone posted a lot and can't remember it, I think it's a sign they have posted too much! :P

I can hardly remember what I had for dinner!

 

[transportphoto]

For those who have never received one.. this is how it appears:

Dear [user name],

This is an automatic message to indicate that the following post which you created has been deleted.

This message is advisory and it does not indicate that you have broken the forum rules, if any moderating penalties have been applied they will be detailed in another message.

Thread: [thread name & hyperlink to thread]
Reason: [98 - Forum tidy]

Please do not reply to this message. If you have any questions, please contact a member of forum staff or use our 'Contact us' form.

Regards,
RailUK Forums

* All text in [ ] square brackets have been added by me and that these are just to show what would be placed there.


---

Would it be possible for the PM's to show which member of staff has deleted the post? No worries if not (see edit)

---

EDIT

As an explanation into my request... where it says "If you have any questions, please contact a member of forum staff or use our 'Contact us' form." it would be helpful to know exactly who has deleted the post so we can contact them personally via PM, if we do have a question, as they would be the one who would know the full answer.

(Hope you get the jist.)

 

[Mojo]

We will not be adding the name of the person who deleted the post to avoid any potential issues which may arise. Similarly if you ask who deleted your post your request will be politely declined. It is up for the person who deleted the post to contact you.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

If someone posted a lot and can't remember it, I think it's a sign they have posted too much! :P

Being a member of 5 weeks standing, can you or any other moderator send me a PM detailing the maximum number of posts combined on ALL forums in total that you can make in any month and the maximum number of posts on ANY SINGLE forum that is allowed in one month. Some people seem to have interests on one forum, others have interests on many forums.

The quiz sub-forum can cause numerous postings per month, dependant on how wide your knowledge is of ech specific quiz question. I was unaware of the quiz forum for nearly a month, as it is the bottom item on the list.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

There are 39 deletion reasons at the moment, the reason the numbers seem random is because we have left gaps (they are currently listed in some kind of order) so more can be added if need be.

Is it possible to send me this information on the 39 deletion reasons with the PM reply to me, that I have just requested from another moderator, so I can add this to my files, please.

 

[Jordy]

Your "files"? What are these "files" for?

In answer to your first question, there is no physical limit on total per month (either overall or per individual forum).

 

[wintonian]

Is it possible to send me this information on the 39 deletion reasons with the PM reply to me, that I have just requested from another moderator, so I can add this to my files, please.

Surly if they were to give this information out (they may not want to) then it should be posted somewhere for all to see?

 

[MidnightFlyer]

I am also wondering why he needs to know. I have only ever had posts deleted for about five reasons; I would assume about 50% of the reasons would be the ones used 95% of the time. As with wintonian, I think that if they were ever made public (i.e. passed to the one requesting them) then it would only be fair to let all others know. Somehow I doubt it will happen.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Your "files"? What are these "files" for?

In answer to your first question, there is no physical limit on total per month (either overall or per individual forum).

Thank you, Jordy, I was worried that I might have exceeded a "limit" without knowing it, had one existed.

When I say "files", this is a term that I used for over forty years whilst dictating to my secretary, as part of my standard "business-speak", and it appears that I still do. If I speak to Northern or ATW or First TPE, I always ask for a copy of their reply FOR MY FILES.

All I wondered was if this information was given to all members as being part of the forum, in order if you said a "78" had occurred, we would know what you meant, but if a number followed by an explanation of what that number referred to then there would be no need for what I had requested.

I hereby assure you and your fellow moderators, that no surrespticious meaning was intended by my comments, nor was ever such an implication made or implied. On reflection, I can see that you may have taken my original request somewhat out of the context in which I intended to be a simple request for clarification. I am well aware that confidentially of private information is of the greatest importance to you and I would knowingly never ask you to breach any confidentality of forum documentation where such matters were not to be disclosed to forum members.

I trust that you and your fellow moderators will discuss my response to your query and accept the wording in this posting as my true feeling on the matter and to make allowances for my lack of knowledge of forum protocol, due to my extremely short period of membership.

 

[wintonian]

Thank you, Jordy, I was worried that I might have exceeded a "limit" without knowing it, had one existed.

When I say "files", this is a term that I used for over forty years whilst dictating to my secretary, as part of my standard "business-speak", and it appears that I still do. If I speak to Northern or ATW or First TPE, I always ask for a copy of their reply FOR MY FILES.

All I wondered was if this information was given to all members as being part of the forum, in order if you said a "78" had occurred, we would know what you meant, but if a number followed by an explanation of what that number referred to then there would be no need for what I had requested.

I hereby assure you and your fellow moderators, that no surrespticious meaning was intended by my comments, nor was ever such an implication made or implied. On reflection, I can see that you may have taken my original request somewhat out of the context in which I intended to be a simple request for clarification. I am well aware that confidentially of private information is of the greatest importance to you and I would knowingly never ask you to breach any confidentality of forum documentation where such matters were not to be disclosed to forum members.

I trust that you and your fellow moderators will discuss my response to your query and accept the wording in this posting as my true feeling on the matter and to make allowances for my lack of knowledge of forum protocol, due to my extremely short period of membership.

I suspect that you wouldn't just get a "reason 23" type response; you would likely be given an actual reason for it along the lines of "…duplicate post" or “…that used to be the case but the rules were changed"

I don't know myself as I don't think I have had any posts deleted, but knowing some of the staff on here, they would give you an explanation.

Personally I can't see any reason why the information couldn't be made public, but obviously there may be reasons I have not thought of.