Upgrade needed for newquay station

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bailey65

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The newquay line in cornwall is getting busier and with a planned 3000 home eco town being built along the route the line needs an upgrade so that long distance and local trains can both run on summer saturdays.
At the moment intermediate stations on the line can't be served when long distance summer saturday trains run as newquay has been reduced to one platform so there is no room for a local unit and a long distance sevice there would probably need to be additional passing loops as well as goonbarrow.
This all costs though which is a problem in todays economic climate but in holiday season the roads into newquay get clogged and the more people that can be encouraged onto rail with whatever special tickets,offers and marketing the better.
Also newquay station itself is very tatty and basic and not a good advert for people entering the town.
 
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HSTEd

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My parents tell stories of four platforms at Newquay and swarms of people coming off the train there, myself I've seen a two coach Sprinter heavily loaded and the platform at Par alive with people getting off the Paddington HST.

But the days when the town gets a good set of through services are long gone, especially with CML travel times being what they are.

There wont be any work done on the line to improve capacity atleast until the next CML resignalling and I have a feeling nothing will change unless we are lucky enough to get the Cornish Main Line to be the testbed for ERTMS-Regional, being as almost all the long distance stock will have to have the ERTMS trainside gear anyway for the GWML.

If it got ERTMS regional the extra cost is the extra points for a second platform at Newquay (two trains would then be able to follow each other in and back out again).

Are the additional platforms (not the tracks) still in situ at Newquay? I don't remember seeing them and I have a feeling they are now a carpark.
 

tbtc

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the days when the town gets a good set of through services are long gone, especially with CML travel times being what they are
It surprises me that there are no few/long distance services to some of the branch lines in Devon/ Cornwall - I accept that a HST/ Voyager couldn't stop at a lot of the stations but a FGW Sprinter could provide a longer distance service to places like Falmouth/ Newquay.

In the realms of fantasy I'd have portions splitting off, which I accept isn't realistic, but surely not *all* the long distance demand in Cornwall is for services that terminate in Penzance? Why is there no (MF) Falmouth/ Newquay - Plymouth service?
 

HSTEd

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It surprises me that there are no few/long distance services to some of the branch lines in Devon/ Cornwall - I accept that a HST/ Voyager couldn't stop at a lot of the stations but a FGW Sprinter could provide a longer distance service to places like Falmouth/ Newquay.

In the realms of fantasy I'd have portions splitting off, which I accept isn't realistic, but surely not *all* the long distance demand in Cornwall is for services that terminate in Penzance? Why is there no (MF) Falmouth/ Newquay - Plymouth service?
Its a pity IEP isn't going to be deployed in Cornwall, the idea of splitting the service to allow portion working to various branches would be nice.
 

TEW

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It surprises me that there are no few/long distance services to some of the branch lines in Devon/ Cornwall - I accept that a HST/ Voyager couldn't stop at a lot of the stations but a FGW Sprinter could provide a longer distance service to places like Falmouth/ Newquay.

In the realms of fantasy I'd have portions splitting off, which I accept isn't realistic, but surely not *all* the long distance demand in Cornwall is for services that terminate in Penzance? Why is there no (MF) Falmouth/ Newquay - Plymouth service?
The timetables work better with units confined to branches. That way you manage roughly 1tph on the mainline, 1tph on the Looe branch, 2tph on the Falmouth and St Ives branches and 1tp2h on the Gunnislake and Newquay branches. To maintain those frequencies with through services to Plymouth would require more units, which simply aren't available. It also means delays are more likely on the branches which as they are mainly single track will mess up the timetables on the. The Newquay branch used to run through to Plymouth a lot more, but that mean 4 rather than 7 trains a day running.
 

HSTEd

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Well once the GWML upgrade is done and if NR were to install ERTMS-Regional (for testing) on the Bristol-to-Plymouth line and the Cornish Main Line+branches, we could start seeing a semi-fast/fast timetable develop. (Although electrification to Plymouth would be ideal).
 

fgwrich

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Have the plans to divert the line via St Austell and Burngullow been abandoned?
I presume so - i think one of the reasons for diverting the route via Burngullow to St Austell was that of the infamous Goss Moor bridge on the A30 - Which has now been replaced with the A30 Improvements (7 miles of dualling and diverting the A30 away from Goss Moor).

Though how much would it have sped up journey times? Ok, so it would have avoided the Luxulyan Valley, but you would still have to navigate through the clay 'mines'...and miss out Roche, Bugle and Luxulyan.

As for Newquay station, whilst the other two former platforms are now under a CO-OP, there is at least one remaining unused platform remaining - Whilst it’s not exactly HST Length, it could be useful for Sprinters and Voyagers...

(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/5b/Newquay_43138.jpg)
 

Penmorfa

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I presume so - i think one of the reasons for diverting the route via Burngullow to St Austell was that of the infamous Goss Moor bridge on the A30 - Which has now been replaced with the A30 Improvements (7 miles of dualling and diverting the A30 away from Goss Moor).

Though how much would it have sped up journey times? Ok, so it would have avoided the Luxulyan Valley, but you would still have to navigate through the clay 'mines'...and miss out Roche, Bugle and Luxulyan.
It would have done a lot for local passenger service from Newquay to St Austell and probably allowed the Par stop to be omitted by some trains.
 

TEW

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I believe it is still something Cornwall Council are talking about, it's connected with the development of an eco town along the route as far as I know.
 
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I presume so - i think one of the reasons for diverting the route via Burngullow to St Austell was that of the infamous Goss Moor bridge on the A30 - Which has now been replaced with the A30 Improvements (7 miles of dualling and diverting the A30 away from Goss Moor).

Though how much would it have sped up journey times? Ok, so it would have avoided the Luxulyan Valley, but you would still have to navigate through the clay 'mines'...and miss out Roche, Bugle and Luxulyan.

As for Newquay station, whilst the other two former platforms are now under a CO-OP, there is at least one remaining unused platform remaining - Whilst it’s not exactly HST Length, it could be useful for Sprinters and Voyagers...

(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/5b/Newquay_43138.jpg)
The Co-op is not on the platforms. It is built on the freight depot area.

Platform 2 is in use. Platform 1 is on the edge of the parking area. Part demolished. It was a 15 coach platform.
Platform 3 was to be retained as a siding, but the rails appear to be gone.
Crossover was scrapped in 1987 and Newquay box closed. The last 13 coach train left Newquay that year. Only DMU's /HST's can now use the branch. Up to the 80's prior to closing St Dennis Junction passing loop, you would often see 3 trains in Newquay station on Summer Saturdays. Arrivals /departures every 20 minutes. The second line on the viaduct went to platform 3.
With the reduced facilities the first Summer Saturday HST from London was then retimed to arrive before 5 am in the morning!! :(
 

Requeststop

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It surprises me that there are no few/long distance services to some of the branch lines in Devon/ Cornwall - I accept that a HST/ Voyager couldn't stop at a lot of the stations but a FGW Sprinter could provide a longer distance service to places like Falmouth/ Newquay.

In the realms of fantasy I'd have portions splitting off, which I accept isn't realistic, but surely not *all* the long distance demand in Cornwall is for services that terminate in Penzance? Why is there no (MF) Falmouth/ Newquay - Plymouth service?
The Cornish mainline is considered to be a branch in many minds. Saltash, St Germans, Menheniot, Lostwithiel, Hayle are treated as branchline stations. The Cornish use the mainline for travel between towns. It would be a change for the best if through trains ran from Newquay/Falmouth, but those of us from the west of Par, west of Truro, would be quite upset if we consequently lost services because of the Newquay/Falmouth direct services.

I agree that Newquay station is an eyesore (as is the town itself), and Falmouth Town is not too central, Falmouth Docks, as a terminus, is not in the exact centre of the town and would also need substantial development to take larger trains.
 
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through trains ran from Newquay/Falmouth, but those of us from the west of Par, west of Truro, would be quite upset if we consequently lost services because of the Newquay/Falmouth direct services.

I agree that Newquay station is an eyesore (as is the town itself), and Falmouth Town is not too central, Falmouth Docks, as a terminus, is not in the exact centre of the town and would also need substantial development to take larger trains.
BR in the 70's ran the Newquay train to Bodmin Road. Also they tried running to St Austell. (Not easy to that now or have someone on the groundframe!) There were a few through services to from Plymouth.

I believe Falmouth Docks was reopened as more freight was envisaged to the Docks in the 70's. The new platform was renamed 'The Dell', now Falmouth Town. For a tour of Falmouth, alight at Penmere Platform, walk downhill into Moor St, and continue to Falmouth Town/ Docks. Don't forget to visit 'Trago Mills', the last big shop B4 'Town' station!!
 

tbtc

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The Cornish mainline is considered to be a branch in many minds. Saltash, St Germans, Menheniot, Lostwithiel, Hayle are treated as branchline stations. The Cornish use the mainline for travel between towns. It would be a change for the best if through trains ran from Newquay/Falmouth, but those of us from the west of Par, west of Truro, would be quite upset if we consequently lost services because of the Newquay/Falmouth direct services.

I agree that Newquay station is an eyesore (as is the town itself), and Falmouth Town is not too central, Falmouth Docks, as a terminus, is not in the exact centre of the town and would also need substantial development to take larger trains.
There are a few "branches" that have gained some mainline services since privatisation (e.g. Anglia tried running through trains from Great Yarmouth etc into London) - I just found it surprising that there had been no attempt to attach a 153 at Par (to the Penzance unit) to give Newquay a Plymouth service.

With the corridor connections of 150/153/158s I wondered whether it'd be worth looking at some portion working (without reducing the service that Penzance gets)
 

TEW

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The problems then are the extra units you'd require, as you'd have to detach a unit off a train coming the other way to work the branch, timetabling, timetables would have to match up perfectly, delays, any delays could have huge effects due to the amount of portion working and platform lengths, if you started attaching lots of units together you'd be too long for platforms. I still think well timed connection serve the branches better, and in Newquay the through trains to London, Birmingham, Manchester and the North in the summer serve it well too.
 

83G/84D

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My parents tell stories of four platforms at Newquay and swarms of people coming off the train there, myself I've seen a two coach Sprinter heavily loaded and the platform at Par alive with people getting off the Paddington HST.

But the days when the town gets a good set of through services are long gone, especially with CML travel times being what they are.

There wont be any work done on the line to improve capacity atleast until the next CML resignalling and I have a feeling nothing will change unless we are lucky enough to get the Cornish Main Line to be the testbed for ERTMS-Regional, being as almost all the long distance stock will have to have the ERTMS trainside gear anyway for the GWML.

If it got ERTMS regional the extra cost is the extra points for a second platform at Newquay (two trains would then be able to follow each other in and back out again).

Are the additional platforms (not the tracks) still in situ at Newquay? I don't remember seeing them and I have a feeling they are now a carpark.
Newquay never had 4 platforms - only three.
 

caliwag

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Bit off topic, but since falmouth has been mentioned. I understand that once the Town (The Dell) was opened, Docks was effectively closed...though whether the full process was invoked I know not. But it seems that regulations would not allow the driver to change ends of the train at Town with passengers on board (plainly passengers travelling from Penmere to Truro would board the Falmouth bound train rather than hang about for its return.)
So the train would continue to Docks, driver changed ends, and proceed back to Truro...so Docks survived. I don't see many using it and its car-park never seems busy. There is new student accommodation near-by.

It is not a pleasant walk to Falmouth from the Dock station, in fact it's not intuitive at all (the dock lands, including the old dockyard access line block a route to Falmouth. So you leave the station on the wrong side, weave your way through some holiday houses, a burnt out hotel and generally Space Left Over after Planning (Sloap in the trade!).

Town (The Dell) is a lot better, though despite the recent Exhibition Square development, is still far from attractive...though indeed the excellent Trago Mills is a beacon! Again the station car park is never busy...hardly park and ride!

Regarding Dock line freight, my questions here and elsewhere have elicited nought. Eighteen months back, it was weeded and a number of rotten sleepers were replaced in the access area (possibly for enthusiast special run rounds)! I believe they brought some scrap out from a disabled ship a few years ago. I guess though, now with the 2tph, timetabling regular freight would be difficult, if even desirable!
 
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The passing loop at Penryn was designed to allow large freight trains to run. (One line is signaled both ways) Freight would have to run at night!
In the 70's the Falmouth train terminated at the Dell.
Sometimes in BR days it could take a long time for Swindon to realize a 'illegal' movement was being made! Eg passengers going over a crossover/ points with no locking etc!!
 

Xenophon PCDGS

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It is not a pleasant walk to Falmouth from the Dock station, in fact it's not intuitive at all (the dock lands, including the old dockyard access line block a route to Falmouth. So you leave the station on the wrong side, weave your way through some holiday houses, a burnt out hotel and generally Space Left Over after Planning (Sloap in the trade!).

Town (The Dell) is a lot better, though despite the recent Exhibition Square development, is still far from attractive...though indeed the excellent Trago Mills is a beacon! Again the station car park is never busy...hardly park and ride!
Falmouth Docks station serves a different area of the town on the seaward side of the railway station with attractions such as Pendennis Castle and many high-quality hotels and newly-built private apartment blocks on Cliff Road. There are two main beaches in this area that attract day trippers,especially the one at Gyllyngvase.

I note that the DfT give the same category rating of F1 to both Falmouth Town and Falmouth Docks railway stations.
 

Essexman

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Bit off topic, but since falmouth has been mentioned. I understand that once the Town (The Dell) was opened, Docks was effectively closed...though whether the full process was invoked I know not. But it seems that regulations would not allow the driver to change ends of the train at Town with passengers on board (plainly passengers travelling from Penmere to Truro would board the Falmouth bound train rather than hang about for its return.)
So the train would continue to Docks, driver changed ends, and proceed back to Truro...so Docks survived. I don't see many using it and its car-park never seems busy. There is new student accommodation near-by.

It is not a pleasant walk to Falmouth from the Dock station, in fact it's not intuitive at all (the dock lands, including the old dockyard access line block a route to Falmouth. So you leave the station on the wrong side, weave your way through some holiday houses, a burnt out hotel and generally Space Left Over after Planning (Sloap in the trade!).

Town (The Dell) is a lot better, though despite the recent Exhibition Square development, is still far from attractive...though indeed the excellent Trago Mills is a beacon! Again the station car park is never busy...hardly park and ride!

Regarding Dock line freight, my questions here and elsewhere have elicited nought. Eighteen months back, it was weeded and a number of rotten sleepers were replaced in the access area (possibly for enthusiast special run rounds)! I believe they brought some scrap out from a disabled ship a few years ago. I guess though, now with the 2tph, timetabling regular freight would be difficult, if even desirable!

That's interesting.
I recall using the line in the early 1970s and the train officially terminating at Town (Dell) but running on to Docks although the station was closed. I think it was closed from about 1970 - 1975. This seems to explain why it didn't just wait at Town.

Why would it be that the driver couldn't change ends with passengers on board? - Gradient?
 

caliwag

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Yes Essexman, I have heard it explained as gradient. Interesting you recall that, I hadn't realised it was early seventies.
I don't doubt that Docks Station does serve different bits of the area, but you'd be very confused not to say disappointed, if speculatively you arrived at Docks. BTW, I would never use Docks to access the very popular Gyllyngvase beach however...Town far more convenient.
Last time there I bought a return from Town to Docks from the conductor, thinking he would think it odd! Seems loads of people do it. Priv is it? so it's the only ticket in my collection.
 

cogload

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Meh.

-Portion working (off ECS movements) is in place now for some services, however it is difficult to balance when things go wrong - so that is one reason why it is not widespread in practice.
-There is little point in operating through services when you have an intensively diagrammed branch such as the Falmouth. There will be an additional requirment for stock and crews should you wish to run through trains plus there is also the consequence that delays on the main line can be fed through to the branch and vice versa. In saying that there is an aspiration on Cornwall CC's behalf to run Newquay - Famouth Docks services which leads on the following:
- The "missing link" between Parkindillack and St. Dennis is being actively looked at. The Council has European Convergence funding to spend on the railway and the proposal would be to run Newquay - Falmouth Docks services reversing at St. Austell. This also ties in with a proposed new town for Blackpool.
 
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dvboy

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I did notice it pretty much resembles a building site at the moment. There's not much seated waiting space.

I've no idea where the ticket office is right now.
 

dvboy

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I wondered that, but then on Friday evening there were full pre-boarding ticket checks taking place, and the guard didn't seem to have a mobile ticket machine on him.
 
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