Upgrading part of a return anytime to first class

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yashicamat

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OK folks, I could really do with a bit of guidance here (and ideally a conclusive answer!).

Reading from the national rail website (http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/times_fares/ticket_types/first_class_upgrade.html), under the upgrading to first class section, it clearly states the way a standard anytime return can be upgraded to first class in one direction;

"Return tickets - change of class in one direction
One of the following options, according to the ticket type held:
Standard Anytime Return - simply pay the difference between the Standard and First Class Anytime Single fare"


My example journey is an anytime return (any permitted route) from Macclesfield to Crewe. This ticket is valued at £15.40. Using the above logic, if I were to upgrade to first class for the return portion of my journey only

The standard anytime single is valued at £14.00
The first anytime single is valued at £17.50

The difference between them is £3.50 - this would be the excess fare. Indeed this is what I have paid on a number of occasions. However, I frequently encounter resistance at Crewe station with regards to this request and having a little spare time today, a member of staff explained their stance on it then gave me an extract from their handbook (apparently published by ATOC) which states:

"Return tickets - change of class in one direction. The difference between the price already paid and the sum of the appropriate Standard Single for one leg and the appropriate First Single for the other leg. If cheaper, charge the difference up to the appropriate First Return for the journey (as if upgrading for both directions)."

Following that logic, the upgrade cost comes in at something like £16.10.

These two bits of information seem to conflict - does anyone have a definitive answer please?

Thanks.

Rob
 
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GadgetMan

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The way I was taught to do it and still do (on train guard);

If the passenger holds a Anytime return ticket and they want to upgrade to first class in one direction, then it's half the difference between Anytime return and First Class return.

In your case I would charge;

Anytime return: £15-40
First Open Return: £33-30

Difference in the above halved= (33.30 - 15.40)/2
=£8.95



editted to add....

This seems to agree with the last part of your post.



From the manual;
Return tickets - change of class in one direction

The difference between the price already paid and the sum of the appropriate Standard Single for one leg and the appropriate First Single for the other leg. If cheaper, charge the difference up to the appropriate First Return for the journey (as if upgrading for both directions).
 
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hairyhandedfool

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The rules for first class excess have recently changed (again), the NRES site is incorrect in it's advice because of this, the clerk is correct in that they are following the instructions in The Manual (FRPP/NFM). However, no actual announcement is ever given when excess fares information changes (despite a section of The Manual's front page being devoted to news and updates) and so the 'rules' used by on train (and indeed ticket offices) can vary wildly, including the complete denial of excess fares even existing.
 

hairyhandedfool

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Sadly the member of staff has misunderstood
If cheaper, charge the difference up to the appropriate First Return for the journey (as if upgrading for both directions).
It is if the return is CHEAPER, then it is a full upgrade
So if the difference to a First Class return was £3.00 then that would be the price and it would give you First Class both out AND return

As this query was made at Crewe, raise a formal (written) complaint to Virgin Trains and require a response in writing
You can then present this in future when purchasing this ticket

I used to make loads of such upgrades, it was an easy way to make commission if it was cheaper than weekend first

The singles each way are £9.50+£17.50.

The First return is £33.30.

The Op paid £15.40 for their return so the excess to the singles is £11.60 and the excess to the return is £17.90. The singles are therefore cheaper.

The Op does not say the clerks at Crewe charged £16.
 
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