USA response to Covid-19 and face masks

[duncanp]

I saw President Elect Biden on the TV last night saying "..please wear a mask..", saying later that it is "...the single most effective thing that you can do in the fight against COVID-19.."

Whilst he didn't say so explicitly, he seem to imply that every American should wear a mask at all times outside the home.

This is despite evidence that transmission of the virus is very low in outdoor settings where social distancing is possible.

I can understand that some people in the US are pleased that Donald Duck Trump will no longer be the president after January, but I saw large rallies celebrating his victory where people, although wearing masks, where gathered together with little or no social distancing.

This is one of the problems with masks, in the US as in the rest of the world, where they give people a false sense of security, and make them think that other measures against COVID-19, such as social distancing and hand washing, are no longer required.

 

[bengley]

I saw President Elect Biden on the TV last night saying "..please wear a mask..", saying later that it is "...the single most effective thing that you can do in the fight against COVID-19.."

Whilst he didn't say so explicitly, he seem to imply that every American should wear a mask at all times outside the home.

This is despite evidence that transmission of the virus is very low in outdoor settings where social distancing is possible.

I can understand that some people in the US are pleased that Donald Duck Trump will no longer be the president after January, but I saw large rallies celebrating his victory where people, although wearing masks, where gathered together with little or no social distancing.

This is one of the problems with masks, in the US as in the rest of the world, where they give people a false sense of security, and make them think that other measures against COVID-19, such as social distancing and hand washing, are no longer required.

You only have to look at a Reddit thread about COVID to see all the terrified yanks aggressively demanding that everyone wears masks outdoors and anyone who is exempt from wearing masks shouldn't be out of their house in the first place.

I saw a post recently where a business owner over there had put a sign up stating 'No mask no service - no exceptions. If you're not able to wear a mask you shouldn't be out and about'

It received mostly supportive comments from people who completely agreed and don't accept exemptions at all.

Shocking, sickening in fact.

 

[DB]

I saw President Elect Biden on the TV last night saying "..please wear a mask..", saying later that it is "...the single most effective thing that you can do in the fight against COVID-19.."

Have any journalists asked for his evidence of this? The "single most effective thing" - which has absolutely no evidence to show that it's effective to any degree, never mind what is claimed!

 

[Skimpot flyer]

Have any journalists asked for his evidence of this? The "single most effective thing" - which has absolutely no evidence to show that it's effective to any degree, never mind what is claimed!

I look forward to his next pronouncement, about the effectiveness of carrying elephant repellent...

 

[initiation]

Have any journalists asked for his evidence of this? The "single most effective thing" - which has absolutely no evidence to show that it's effective to any degree, never mind what is claimed!

This. It is curious to note how many times Trump has been 'fact checked' in the media - why not apply the same here?

 

[hst43102]

This. It is curious to note how many times Trump has been 'fact checked' in the media - why not apply the same here?

As much as I dislike Trump, it's clear that the media has a double standard with American politics.

 

[bramling]

This. It is curious to note how many times Trump has been 'fact checked' in the media - why not apply the same here?

Yes it's quite odd that Biden can make a pretty significant claim yet provide zero evidence to back it up. I haven't seen him use hand sanitiser before touching his mask either.

 

[duncanp]

You only have to look at a Reddit thread about COVID to see all the terrified yanks aggressively demanding that everyone wears masks outdoors and anyone who is exempt from wearing masks shouldn't be out of their house in the first place.

I saw a post recently where a business owner over there had put a sign up stating 'No mask no service - no exceptions. If you're not able to wear a mask you shouldn't be out and about'

It received mostly supportive comments from people who completely agreed and don't accept exemptions at all.

Shocking, sickening in fact.

It seems to me that masks are much more of a party political issue in the USA than anywhere else in the world.

Supporters of President Trump make a point of not wearing masks even in situations where they might be advisable, whereas supporters of President Elect Biden make a point of wearing them all the time, even when they are not really necessary and don't do any good.

One hopes that if Joe Biden enacts a mask law, he will take note of what has happened in the UK, and have categories of people who are exempt, plus a recognised symbol of exemption like the sunflower lanyard, a means of obtaining this symbol of exemption plus a publicity campaign to make people aware that exemptions exist. Mask exemptions could then be covered by the ADA (Americans With Disability Act) which would make it illegal to refuse service to someone not wearing a mask who has a genuine exemption.

 

[bramling]

It seems to me that masks are much more of a party political issue in the USA than anywhere else in the world.

Supporters of President Trump make a point of not wearing masks even in situations where they might be advisable, whereas supporters of President Elect Biden make a point of wearing them all the time, even when they are not really necessary and don't do any good.

One hopes that if Joe Biden enacts a mask law, he will take note of what has happened in the UK, and have categories of people who are exempt, plus a recognised symbol of exemption like the sunflower lanyard, a means of obtaining this symbol of exemption plus a publicity campaign to make people aware that exemptions exist. Mask exemptions could then be covered by the ADA (Americans With Disability Act) which would make it illegal to refuse service to someone not wearing a mask who has a genuine exemption.

Surely he'd have to or there would be a pretty high chance of things kicking off, not helped by it being a political issue. At least here it's not political.

 

[duncanp]

Surely he'd have to or there would be a pretty high chance of things kicking off, not helped by it being a political issue. At least here it's not political.

I would also hope that President Biden makes it clear that masks are not a substitute for hand washing and social distancing, and that it is not necessary to wear one outdoors if it is possible to maintain social distancing, such as in a suburban street with little foot traffic, or when walking in the countryside.

I am planning to go to the US in August next year (postponed twice due to COVID-19) so I am interested in what happens with regard to masks on the other side of the pond.

 

[HSTEd]

Have any journalists asked for his evidence of this? The "single most effective thing" - which has absolutely no evidence to show that it's effective to any degree, never mind what is claimed!

Well its because no one can really do anything.

 

[DB]

It seems to me that masks are much more of a party political issue in the USA than anywhere else in the world.

Supporters of President Trump make a point of not wearing masks even in situations where they might be advisable, whereas supporters of President Elect Biden make a point of wearing them all the time, even when they are not really necessary and don't do any good.

One hopes that if Joe Biden enacts a mask law, he will take note of what has happened in the UK, and have categories of people who are exempt, plus a recognised symbol of exemption like the sunflower lanyard, a means of obtaining this symbol of exemption plus a publicity campaign to make people aware that exemptions exist. Mask exemptions could then be covered by the ADA (Americans With Disability Act) which would make it illegal to refuse service to someone not wearing a mask who has a genuine exemption.

Does the president actually have the power to do that? If not he could of course encourage state legislatures to do so - but the terms (and the issues it would cause) would then be their problem, not his!

 

[MikeWM]

Does the president actually have the power to do that? If not he could of course encourage state legislatures to do so - but the terms (and the issues it would cause) would then be their problem, not his!

I don't believe he has any such power, no. With the help of Congress, you can put pressure on the states to comply with things (eg. look at the way the legal drinking age was raised to 21 in every state) but in this case the Senate is likely to remain Republican, so that wouldn't help.

Note that a few weeks ago you had the head of the CDC claiming that a mask is going to protect you better than a vaccine (!) - perspective has been entirely lost. (Well, either that, or he knows more about the progress of vaccine development than he is letting on!)

 

[duncanp]

Does the president actually have the power to do that? If not he could of course encourage state legislatures to do so - but the terms (and the issues it would cause) would then be their problem, not his!

I don't know, to be honest.

It could be that public health is managed at state level in the US, rather like it is a devolved matter in the UK.

I suppose the US federal government could incentivise states to do what the president wants, with the promise of money for those states who implement his plans.

Or Congress could pass an act making the management of COVID-19 a federal matter.

 

[packermac]

It seems to me that masks are much more of a party political issue in the USA than anywhere else in the world.

Supporters of President Trump make a point of not wearing masks even in situations where they might be advisable, whereas supporters of President Elect Biden make a point of wearing them all the time, even when they are not really necessary and don't do any good.

One hopes that if Joe Biden enacts a mask law, he will take note of what has happened in the UK, and have categories of people who are exempt, plus a recognised symbol of exemption like the sunflower lanyard, a means of obtaining this symbol of exemption plus a publicity campaign to make people aware that exemptions exist. Mask exemptions could then be covered by the ADA (Americans With Disability Act) which would make it illegal to refuse service to someone not wearing a mask who has a genuine exemption.

Whilst I have always been very interested in US Politics I find it strange that anyone here should be worried about mask wearing exemptions for US Citizens. Currently despite their disability laws flying without a mask is not allowed now, even under Trump. There is also the issue of those who think they may wish to travel to the US or elsewhere that vaccination may need to be proved, and certain ones may not be excepted by certain countries. I would not be surprised for example to see a Biden led US, even if they mask exemptions for US Citizens, require the wearing of them by any aliens who are visiting until things get a lot safer throughout the world. That of course assumes they reopen their borders quickly anyway.

 

[bramling]

Does the president actually have the power to do that? If not he could of course encourage state legislatures to do so - but the terms (and the issues it would cause) would then be their problem, not his!

This might merit its own thread, however I was thinking this week about the Trump election result, and how it’s generally being taken to be that Covid probably cost it for him. To what extent do we think that Trump’s handling has correlated with their quite high death figure? For a start Americans aren’t generally the healthiest people in terms of factors like obesity, and then a lot of the response has presumably been at state level for which Trump isn’t directly accountable.

How much more could Trump have realistically done to influence things? This is a genuine question as I’m not too up on their setup there.

 

[Mojo]

The problem with the USA is that almost everything you do is a political statement. Probably hence Biden yesterday said that it is not a political statement, because to me as an outsider it is quite clear that wearing a mask in the USA is quite clearly a political statement.

It is clear that he is a bit of a mask obsessive as he can often be seen wearing two masks at the same time!

 

[Richard Scott]

I look forward to his next pronouncement, about the effectiveness of carrying elephant repellent...

So far then he's about the same as Trump with silly messages that have no foundation?

 

[MikeWM]

So far then he's about the same as Trump with silly messages that have no foundation?

Yep. And Trump was effectively getting behind the rather more sensible idea of 'focused protection'/Great Barrington. Biden is a big step backwards as far as Covid is concerned.

 

[brad465]

By the time he's been inaugurated I can see many restrictions being on their way out in the coming months, so anything he does in response, whether it be for face masks or any other demands, won't be around for long and won't be a large chunk of his presidency. The current surge in infections in the US is expected to peak not long before this planned inauguration according to some sources.

We now have a vaccine that will likely start getting used at least as a means to improve things, while the progression of winter should see the virus burn through more of the population and be on the decline for the spring, where other countries are likely to see pressure to ease things, which will have a knock on effect in the US.

 

[GRALISTAIR]

Whilst I have always been very interested in US Politics I find it strange that anyone here should be worried about mask wearing exemptions for US Citizens. Currently despite their disability laws flying without a mask is not allowed now, even under Trump. There is also the issue of those who think they may wish to travel to the US or elsewhere that vaccination may need to be proved, and certain ones may not be excepted by certain countries. I would not be surprised for example to see a Biden led US, even if they mask exemptions for US Citizens, require the wearing of them by any aliens who are visiting until things get a lot safer throughout the world. That of course assumes they reopen their borders quickly anyway.

And this is another example of all things being political. Democrats - Biden included - claim they want open borders - but to control a virus you might need to close them. I have lived here for 20 years. Please trust me on this- EVERYTHING is political particularly in a US election year and aftermath.

As for masks, I personally wear one on a plane and at airports and entering a restaurant and Walmart etc, but not outside when exercising.

Surely to god there has to be commonsense somewhere?

 

[duncanp]

And this is another example of all things being political. Democrats - Biden included - claim they want open borders - but to control a virus you might need to close them. I have lived here for 20 years. Please trust me on this- EVERYTHING is political particularly in a US election year and aftermath.

As for masks, I personally wear one on a plane and at airports and entering a restaurant and Walmart etc, but not outside when exercising.

Surely to god there has to be commonsense somewhere?

If a vaccine becomes widely available, I would imagine that the US, along with several other countries I suspect, will make proof of vaccination a condition of entry.

Several African countries require proof of vaccination against diseases such as typhoid and malaria, so requiring proof of vaccination against COVID-19 is similar.

 

[GRALISTAIR]

If a vaccine becomes widely available, I would imagine that the US, along with several other countries I suspect, will make proof of vaccination a condition of entry.

Several African countries require proof of vaccination against diseases such as typhoid and malaria, so requiring proof of vaccination against COVID-19 is similar.

Which to me seems a fair enough response. Proof of vaccination would be a good idea imho.

 

[Domh245]

If a vaccine becomes widely available, I would imagine that the US, along with several other countries I suspect, will make proof of vaccination a condition of entry.

Several African countries require proof of vaccination against diseases such as typhoid and malaria, so requiring proof of vaccination against COVID-19 is similar.

I remain unconvinced that we'll see proof of vaccination introduced for Covid, at least with these first generation vaccines. They mostly seem to be around symptom mitigation more than actively preventing spread

And that's before considering the distribution order. Tough luck if you're a young healthy person - you've been asked to put your life on hold and now whilst the people you "did it to protect" are off swanning about the world having had their vaccines and you're still stuck at home. That'd go down well

 

[duncanp]

I remain unconvinced that we'll see proof of vaccination introduced for Covid, at least with these first generation vaccines. They mostly seem to be around symptom mitigation more than actively preventing spread

And that's before considering the distribution order. Tough luck if you're a young healthy person - you've been asked to put your life on hold and now whilst the people you "did it to protect" are off swanning about the world having had their vaccines and you're still stuck at home. That'd go down well

I hadn't considered the distribution order. No, it would not go down well amongst those not eligible for a vaccine if they were not able to travel abroad, or had to pay privately for a vaccine in order to enter certain countries.

Not that the US government would be particularly concerned about this aspect though. They would say "no vaccine, no entry", and that if you could afford to travel from Europe to the US you can afford to pay privately for a vaccine if required.

There would be more of a problem if young healthy people in the UK were prevented from going on holiday to EU destinations for lack of a free vaccine on the NHS.

 

[HSTEd]

Assuming the vaccines are even available for sale.

Far more likely that all supplies in Britain will be seized by the state for distribution to the chosen subset of the population.

Enabling young people to go on holidays is not really a priority of the current government after all

 

[bramling]

I hadn't considered the distribution order. No, it would not go down well amongst those not eligible for a vaccine if they were not able to travel abroad, or had to pay privately for a vaccine in order to enter certain countries.

Not that the US government would be particularly concerned about this aspect though. They would say "no vaccine, no entry", and that if you could afford to travel from Europe to the US you can afford to pay privately for a vaccine if required.

There would be more of a problem if young healthy people in the UK were prevented from going on holiday to EU destinations for lack of a free vaccine on the NHS.

Yes I agree that wouldn't go down too well, especially if retired older people are seen to be getting it.

 

[HSTEd]

Yes I agree that wouldn't go down too well, especially if retired older people are seen to be getting it.

It won't amount to anything that the government cares about.

What are they going to do?
At the end of the day, almost no young people vote Tory anyway.
They will fall back on the argument "why do you want to murder granny by stealing her vaccine?"

Kind of offtopic though.

 

[Grecian 1998]

This interesting claim was made two months ago by Dr Robert Redfield, the head of the Centers of Disease Control and Prevention:

Masks may be more effective than vaccines -CDC

A top public health official on Wednesday delivered perhaps the most compelling reason yet for wearing a face mask, saying it may be more effective in protecting against the coronavirus than even a vaccine. Speaking at a Senate hearing on U.S. response to the virus, Dr. Robert Redfield, the...

news.yahoo.com

If he thinks masks are more effective than vaccines, I can only assume he has very low expectations of a vaccine, given the considerable lack of success mask mandation has had in preventing new lockdowns across much of Europe.

Reading his Wikipedia page, he seems to have an interesting past. Whilst Wikipedia is not an overly reliable source, anything blatantly untrue about a public figure isn't likely to last long.

 

[philosopher]

The problem with the USA is that almost everything you do is a political statement. Probably hence Biden yesterday said that it is not a political statement, because to me as an outsider it is quite clear that wearing a mask in the USA is quite clearly a political statement.

It is clear that he is a bit of a mask obsessive as he can often be seen wearing two masks at the same time!

To me it almost seems that in the US now you can identify what side of the US political divide people are from whether they are wearing a mask or not. If you are wearing a mask you are probably a Democrat, not wearing one likely equals a Republican. It is almost as if masks have become an identifier to your political views.