Used my mom's freedom pass, got caught and received a letter from TFL:

[Dyda]

Dyda, you have plead guilty to a Byelaws offence. This conviction is instantly spent. You do not have to declare it in job applications. Do not concern yourself with anything about the RORA or anything else.

Tony_mac was correctly pointing out that there are a small number of jobs which have exceptions to the normal rules on criminal records, and he linked to a page which lists some jobs which might fall into this rule. If you were ever applying for these roles, it would be made very clear on an application that the job is an exception to the normal rules.

Oh! Thank you so much! I don't work in any sensitive jobs so hopefully it won't be a problem!

 

[tony_mac]

This conviction is instantly spent.

Do you have a reference for that?
I am not convinced that it is correct - the usual period for a fine is 1 year.
(I know it's not recorded on the PNC, but that's not legally the same thing as being spent.)

 

[Puffing Devil]

Do you have a reference for that?
I am not convinced that it is correct - the usual period for a fine is 1 year.
(I know it's not recorded on the PNC, but that's not legally the same thing as being spent.)

Agree. This is a big grey area and no-one has yet produced a definitive answer.

 

[some bloke]

my potential employers do not usually ask...so should I just take initiative and tell them"

No need.
"Before your conviction is spent, you only have to tell the employer about your past crime if they ask you."
https://www.gov.uk/exoffenders-and-employment

[Edit 3 May 2019: There's an error on that government advice page.
It says that for people under 18 at the time of conviction who are fined, the conviction is spent after a year. In fact it's 6 months.]

On whether the conviction needs a year to be spent, that page refers to a year for fines from adult convictions generally; there is no mention of a difference for non-recordable offences. The mention of "instantly spent" relates to simple cautions.

Same here: https://www.nacro.org.uk/resettleme...sing-criminal-records/criminal-record-checks/

 

[cuccir]

OK; I think my advice on that matter must have been incorrect. I'm very sorry.

 

[najaB]

...though in general an employer should only be asking about unspent convictions.

Most employers are only allowed to ask about unspent convictions.

 

[najaB]

http://hub.unlock.org.uk/knowledgebase/recordable-offences-2/

If they are not on the PNC then they are, de facto, not going to show up on a DBS check.

 

[Puffing Devil]

http://hub.unlock.org.uk/knowledgebase/recordable-offences-2/

If they are not on the PNC then they are, de facto, not going to show up on a DBS check.

Unfortunately, there's still a lot of uncertainty in that document and it shows with the advice:

How do I know if my offence was for a recordable offence?
The rules around what is and isn’t recordable are quite complicated, and have changed over the years.

If you are not sure whether your offence is classed as recordable or not, and so are unclear whether it’s held on the PNC, the best thing to do is to apply to your local police force [for a report]​

The article says that the Home Office does not publish a list and that some forces may enter information anyway, also when alongside recordable offences. This may lead them to be included on a Disclosure report.

We're still searching for the Holy Grail of a definitive statement of what is, and what is not recordable and how and when these offences are spent.

Maybe a good FOI request would start it off?

 

[tony_mac]

If they are not on the PNC then they are, de facto, not going to show up on a DBS check.

That doesn't mean you don't have a legal duty to disclose them.
Yes, he would probably get away with it , but if it was discovered later then it could cause problems.

 

[najaB]

We're still searching for the Holy Grail of a definitive statement of what is, and what is not recordable and how and when these offences are spent.

The National Police Records (Recordable Offences) Regulations 2000 state:

2. The National Police Records (Recordable Offences) Regulations 1985(2), the National Police Records (Recordable Offences) (Amendment) Regulations 1989(3) and the National Police Records (Recordable Offences) (Amendment) Regulations 1997(4) are hereby revoked.

3.—(1) There may be recorded in national police records—

(a)convictions for; and

(b)cautions, reprimands and warnings given in respect of,

any offence punishable with imprisonment and any offence specified in the Schedule to these Regulations.

Byelaw offences are not punishable with imprisonment, and the Byelaws aren't specified in the regulations. Hence, they are non-recordable.

 

[AlterEgo]

That doesn't mean you don't have a legal duty to disclose them.
Yes, he would probably get away with it , but if it was discovered later then it could cause problems.

I agree.

It is also of note to consider that companies may not use a DBS check but instead conduct their own background check. A bylaw conviction in the Magistrates' Court will be a matter of public record.

 

[some bloke]

That doesn't mean you don't have a legal duty to disclose them.

Agreed. Without clear official information that a conviction is immediately spent, it's not obvious what advice can be given apart from disclosing when asked.

https://www.gov.uk/exoffenders-and-employment

... there is no mention of a difference for non-recordable offences.

Same here:
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/new-guidance-on-the-rehabilitation-of-offenders-act-1974
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/rehabilitation-periods/rehabilitation-periods-table
https://www.askthe.police.uk/Content/Q89.htm

 

[najaB]

Agreed. Without clear official information that a conviction is immediately spent, it's not obvious what advice can be given apart from disclosing when asked.

I don't know how much more 'official' you want. You have the relevant legislation on what can and cannot be recorded on the PNC (only offences that are eligible for a custodial sentence or specifically listed) so Byelaw offices won't be recorded.

How about the DBS filtering guide which states:

What Police National Computer (PNC) information will be shown on a DBS certificate?
Standard and enhanced DBS certificates will include details of convictions and cautions (which include youth cautions, reprimands and warnings) recorded on the PNC.

PNC information relating to protected cautions and convictions will be filtered and will not appear on the certificate.

and

What other types of information are shown on enhanced DBS certificates?
In addition to information from the PNC, it may also include information taken from police records that a chief officer of a police force considers relevant to the application and ought to be disclosed, or details of whether an individual is included on one or both of our two lists barring people from working with children and/or vulnerable adults.

It is highly unlikely in the extreme that the chief officer of a police force will consider a non-recordable offence (which he won't have record of) to be relevant to any application.

That said, it is usually better to be open and honest.

 

[some bloke]

Is the issue about computer/certificates/police chief, or whether the employer has a legal right to an honest answer?

Perhaps, if asked: "I was in a compulsory ticket area of a station without a valid ticket. It's an automatic offence - they didn't claim I was dishonest".

 

[pedr]

The requirement to not be dishonest when applying for jobs is, I think, the important element here, rather than the concept of a criminal record. The Rehabilitation of Offenders Act effectively makes it honest to say you have never been convicted of an offence if the only offences you’ve been convicted of are spent and the Act applies to the job you are applying for.

The fact that common checks wouldn’t reveal a conviction isn’t the same as not having been convicted, so while it would make a lot of sense if non-recordable offences didn’t “count” as convictions when applying for jobs and other times when someone might have to answer questions about convictions, it’s not clear that this is what the law says.

 

[Dyda]

Hi guys, I think I forgot to mention that I lost my job but finally found a new one and will be starting in two weeks. The company will be doing my background checks through Experian.
Does anyone know what checks they are and if my criminal record (or not criminal - sorry I'm still confused ) will show there? Do I need to worry?
Again, thank you all very much in advance fot your precious help!

 

[Dyda]

Hi guys, I think I forgot to mention that I lost my job but finally found a new one and will be starting in two weeks. The company will be doing my background checks through Experian.
Does anyone know what checks they are and if my criminal record (or not criminal - sorry I'm still confused ) will show there? Do I need to worry?
Again, thank you all very much in advance fot your precious help!

My new job is for a software company that provides mainly systems for accountants.

 

[najaB]

My new job is for a software company that provides mainly systems for accountants.

I don't think you've got much to worry about, that kind of job won't be eligible for a Standard or Enhanced DBS check. So be honest ("I had some trouble with a rail ticket a few months back.") and you don't need to go into any more detail than that.

 

[Dyda]

So should I take the initiative and tell them even if they didn't ask me? I think I'm too afraid to do that

 

[some bloke]

I thought the conviction hasn't happened yet, so that for now nothing would appear in any check.

People don't need to disclose criminal convictions unless asked (apart from for some jobs where you are told, or for specified/more serious crimes).

Maybe there won't be any questions about it anyway. If you'll be starting in two weeks, does that mean they didn't ask about convictions? Have they told you anything about needing to declare any future convictions?

 

[Dyda]

I don't think they asked that, actually I'm pretty sure they didn't because I interviewed with them after I was caught so I would have definitely stopped the interviewing process. And they also didn't ask to declare any future convictions, I would remember that. And when they sent me the contract will all the forms to fill in there was no mention of any criminal records, so they didn't ask so I didn't declare anything.
So what should I do? I think I'm too afraid to just tell them

 

[30907]

https://www.experian.co.uk/background-checking/

What is a background check?
...Our background checks provide a detailed history and understanding of an individual’s background, including their identity, education, employment history, credit history and any relevant criminal record information, so you’ll know who to trust from the start. .... A full background check can confirm the information you are provided with is valid and help to safeguard against potentially negative aspects, including fraudulent activity, income loss or damage to your reputation.

(my bold)

If you have been convicted of a byelaw offence by the time of the check it may show up on the check (let's assume it's not immediately spent, to be safe). If the employer then asks you, you must obviously confirm that you travelled without a valid ticket.
Otherwise, as they have not asked previously, I think you have no need to worry - you have not tried to mislead them.
Employers worry about gaps on CVs, being economical with the truth and so on, and I can't see that a byelaw conviction would cause them to worry..

 

[najaB]

If you have been convicted of a byelaw offence by the time of the check it may show up on the check (let's assume it's not immediately spent, to be safe).

Even if it's not spent, it won't show up on a DBS check (excepting the chance that it's entered onto the PNC accidentally).

 

[30907]

Even if it's not spent, it won't show up on a DBS check (excepting the chance that it's entered onto the PNC accidentally).

Agreed, but do Experian work to the same criteria? I've no idea.

 

[najaB]

Agreed, but do Experian work to the same criteria? I've no idea.

Well, I'd be very concerned if Experian had greater access to criminal records than the police do!

 

[30907]

Well, I'd be very concerned if Experian had greater access to criminal records than the police do!

Agreed, but they might read the court report in the local rag.

Anyway, we agree that the OP need not worry.

 

[Dyda]

Thank you guys, I will worry anyway as this is my nature

 

[Dyda]

Hi guys,

I’ve just received a ‘Result of court case’ and it says:

----
On (date) magistrates considered the case brought against you by Transport for London and the following orders were made:

Offence – Enter a compulsory ticket area on the transport for London regional railway network without a valid ticket.

Fine £294, Costs: £100, Victim surcharge: £30

You have been found guilty of this offence. You need to pay a total of £424 within 14 days.

A collection order in case I don’t pay….

How to pay….
-----

So, it is all over? Of course I've already paid.
In this letter (1 page, 2-sided) nothing is mentioned about a criminal record, it’s all about a fine for an offence. It doesn’t say if it’s spent or unspent and how long it takes to spend it.

What does it mean? Should I call them to check if I have criminal record or would they just tell me?

Please I’m begging for your help, again!

 

[najaB]

So, it is all over? Of course I've already paid.

Yes, if you've paid then that is that.

Should I call them to check if I have criminal record or would they just tell me?

It's a non-recordable offence so no, you don't have a criminal record. You can check for yourself by requesting a basic disclosure check in a couple of weeks.

 

[boxy321]

It's an expensive parking ticket basically. Which is good news!