Using a cheaper season ticket...

[_toommm_]

So I've found a season ticket which is valid in journey planners for the route I'm wanting to use, but could possibly raise some eyebrows from guards and inspectors - especially as I'll be passing through Manchester Picc.

What's the best way to avoid any trouble? I realise this sounds dodgy, but as the routing on this ticket is a bit wild, I won't be posting the destination and start station of the ticket.

And for the sake of any questions, the ticket is a point-to-point with no splits, and the ticket is valid on the route I'm using it for, albeit, like I said, a circuitous route.

 

[maniacmartin]

It's hard to give advice when the information provided is so vague.
Is the route a mapped route in the PDF copy of the Routeing Guide?
Also, are you intending to start or finish short at a station that is only on a valid route by virtue of the Group Stations rule?

 

[_toommm_]

It's hard to give advice when the information provided is so vague.
Is the route a mapped route in the PDF copy of the Routeing Guide?
Also, are you intending to start or finish short at a station that is only on a valid route by virtue of the Group Stations rule?

I'm not au fait with the routing guide as I can't comprehend it. The station at which I wish to disembark is a valid interchange station on the season ticket, and the route I wish to take is shown in all journey planners quite easily.

I'm being vague as I don't want to shout it out and have the route removed.

If you're not in a position to report it I'd love to PM you and talk about it

 

[ForTheLoveOf]

So I've found a season ticket which is valid in journey planners for the route I'm wanting to use, but could possibly raise some eyebrows from guards and inspectors - especially as I'll be passing through Manchester Picc.

What's the best way to avoid any trouble? I realise this sounds dodgy, but as the routing on this ticket is a bit wild, I won't be posting the destination and start station of the ticket.

And for the sake of any questions, the ticket is a point-to-point with no splits, and the ticket is valid on the route I'm using it for, albeit, like I said, a circuitous route.

Ultimately if you are entering and exiting at a major station and the ticket is not accepted by the ticket barriers automatically - or if only manual checks are in operation and no barriers - then you will have difficulty keeping your ticket a "secret" and there may well be difficulties and/or challenges. But if you have an annual season ticket then at the end of the day there may be challenges but your contract is fixed for one year and so for that length of time you can still make use of the anomaly on the terms/validity originally applicable when buying.

Obviously it would be highly advantageous to print out evidence of the validity (preferably with the date on the printout) but ultimately if you're sure it's valid, that's it!

 

[_toommm_]

Turns out the ticket (at least the off peak day return) works the barrier at Leeds and doesn't swallow the ticket either. Perhaps it's just a forgotten about concession...

 

[_toommm_]

The season works at Leeds and Piccadilly in the barriers - had one guard ask what route I was taking (probably just double checking I knew what I was doing) and he smiled and went on his way after the fact.

 

[maniacmartin]

In this case, the Group Stations rule would mean your route passes through Micklefield twice. You might want to read upon the rule if that is the case

 

[_toommm_]

In this case, the Group Stations rule would mean your route passes through Micklefield twice. You might want to read upon the rule if that is the case

I don't pass through Micklefield at all...

 

[_toommm_]

Had my first argument with a guard on the train tonight - did get a little bit heated but no unpleasantries were exchanged. Some valid points made either side, I apologised if I came across as rude as that wasn't my intention which probably helped a bit. Guard left and is going to report it as a potentially not valid route.

Seems weird as I went into a ticket office, they photocopied my ticket to issue seat reservations and it was allowed. And I showed the guard an itinerary to prove my validity. Hey ho...

 

[Kite159]

And chances are the loophole will be gone within a couple weeks

 

[_toommm_]

If it does get patched I'll post the route that I took.

 

[A Challenge]

If you buy it before they change it then it's valid for up to a year (for an annual)

 

[_toommm_]

If you buy it before they change it then it's valid for up to a year (for an annual)

I've only got two to three weeks of this commute left so I should be ok hopefully.

Regardless, the way I was treated last night was appalling. I had an itinerary but he would have none of it!

 

[ForTheLoveOf]

I've only got two to three weeks of this commute left so I should be ok hopefully.

Regardless, the way I was treated last night was appalling. I had an itinerary but he would have none of it!

What exactly was he demanding/threatening? Payment of a new ticket?

 

[_toommm_]

What exactly was he demanding/threatening? Payment of a new ticket?

Yep, then for my details, then for the police. Making out I've scammed the rest of the coach out of money, shouting about prices and that everyone else has bought full price tickets and I was somehow costing them money.

 

[ForTheLoveOf]

Yep, then for my details, then for the police. Making out I've scammed the rest of the coach out of money, shouting about prices and that everyone else has bought full price tickets and I was somehow costing them money.

Interesting. Did you offer to pay anything? Did you offer your details?

Personally, I would have stood my ground like you did. If a ticket is valid, it's valid irrespective of how much it costs or what the origin and destination are. If the person checking tickets cannot be 100% sure that your ticket is invalid - e.g. because they have not received training on the Routeing Guide, or if they have, but they haven't understood it - then they are in no position to be ruling your ticket as invalid as judge, jury and executioner!

They should certainly not be shouting at you or making unjustified threats, regardless of what you have done. Most unprofessional. Have you made a customer services complaint?

 

[yorkie]

I strongly recommend attending a free fares workshop (or, failing that, at least a forum event such as a meal) where we can advise on the validity and give you some tips for conflict avoidance/management.

 

[_toommm_]

Interesting. Did you offer to pay anything? Did you offer your details?

Personally, I would have stood my ground like you did. If a ticket is valid, it's valid irrespective of how much it costs or what the origin and destination are. If the person checking tickets cannot be 100% sure that your ticket is invalid - e.g. because they have not received training on the Routeing Guide, or if they have, but they haven't understood it - then they are in no position to be ruling your ticket as invalid as judge, jury and executioner!

They should certainly not be shouting at you or making unjustified threats, regardless of what you have done. Most unprofessional. Have you made a customer services complaint?

I've made a complaint indeed. I was asked to pay for a new ticket, but politely refused as I had, and have, a valid ticket. I offered my details, which were never took, but as I refused to pay, that's when the threat of the police was introduced which luckily never transpired.

Really is a sad indictment When you're shown proof after proof that your ticket is, rightly or wrongfully, valid, and you're still made to feel puny

 

[_toommm_]

I strongly recommend attending a free fares workshop (or, failing that, at least a forum event such as a meal) where we can advise on the validity and give you some tips for conflict avoidance/management.

I really need to but I never have time what with a long commute to work and a six day working werk! If there's one in Manchester soon I'll try to attend.

Just a question though: do many younger people attend? I'm 19 so I don't want to me too too young and stick out!

 

[krus_aragon]

Just a question though: do many younger people attend? I'm 19 so I don't want to me too too young and stick out!

My recollections of having attended a fares workshop in Crewe many years ago was that there was a large spread of ages from 20s to 60s (more young ones than older). There was a significant imbalance in the gender demographic, though...

If you're intelligent and interested (which this thread shows you are) then you'll be welcome.

 

[ForTheLoveOf]

As long as you can understand what's going on (which clearly you will from what you have written), you'll fit right in!

 

[_toommm_]

So at Chesterfield I was asked for my ticket by the guard before I boarded so I couldn't really avoid this one - guy was really nice and accepted my itenaray, but he did take the details of the route so chances are it will be patched in a week of three.

Worried there may be a repercussion for me at Piccadilly, but he didn't take my personal details so...

 

[BluePenguin]

Just a question though: do many younger people attend? I'm 19 so I don't want to me too too young and stick out!

Yes are quite a few of us young ones in our 20s that do. I'm 22 and go to the London meals every so often which normally consist of a combination of young people of similar age to me who live and work in London and but also slightly older men in their 30s-40 whose work near by the meal location. There is always the odd few down from the North who are in the area on a business trip too. It is usually a good turn out and everyone gets on.

I am not sure about any in York Manchester as they are too far me to get to and from in an evening. But if you're in the area and have the chance to you should definitely go along to one of them.

 

[_toommm_]

Finally received a response back from TPE about the lovely guard who threatened to call the police, and here it is - in short, they're still adamant the guard was right and my ticket was invalid:

 

[ForTheLoveOf]

Finally received a response back from TPE about the lovely guard who threatened to call the police, and here it is - in short, they're still adamant the guard was right and my ticket was invalid:

View attachment 55620

It's up to you whether you want to escalate the matter. If you do, it may be fixed.

 

[gray1404]

I do think that, although the situation that happened on the TPE service was not of your making and unavoidable, at the same time you have drawn attention to the ticket. If you are using a loophole ticket then is not advised (even if you are in the right) as it increases the chance of it getting removed. Things like contacting TPE customer relations and going to make seat reservations at the booking office is just giving them another chance to see what you are doing and getting it removed.

 

[_toommm_]

I do think that, although the situation that happened on the TPE service was not of your making and unavoidable, at the same time you have drawn attention to the ticket. If you are using a loophole ticket then is not advised (even if you are in the right) as it increases the chance of it getting removed. Things like contacting TPE customer relations and going to make seat reservations at the booking office is just giving them another chance to see what you are doing and getting it removed.

It was quite interesting as I used this ticket from Manchester to Sheffield everyday and I knew I would have had to get seat reservations for it, but Virgin at Piccadilly never objected to it. They even took the ticket overnight to issue the reservations and there were no problems..