Using an expired 16-25 Railcard

Discussion in 'Disputes & Prosecutions' started by furio000, 16 May 2018.

  1. furio000

    furio000 Member

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    Five months ago, I bought a train ticket(on Virgin train APP) from Liverpool Lime Street to Manchester Airport with 16-25Railcard. But I didn't check the expired date of the railcard before and use it. The staff took the railcard away, asked my details(I gave my address and phone number) and gave me a fine ticket(I'm not sure if it is a fine ticket). Because of some reasons, the fine ticket was lost and I can't remember the content of that fine ticket. I had emailed to the railway company, but they did not give me a solution. Now, after 5 months, they still didn't contact me. Am I very lucky for this and is this end?
     
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  3. robbeech

    robbeech Established Member

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    You would benefit from trying once again to contact them. 5 months does seem like a long time but I’m not sure if there is a time limit, it would depend upon the charges they’re trying to bring against you. Have you since purchased another railcard that was backdated to be valid?
     
  4. furio000

    furio000 Member

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    Thanks for your reply. I didn't buy a new railcard since it happened. I used to contact with Railcard.co.uk, but they told me to contact with the train operating company. Then I try to contact with virgin train company, and they didn't give me a solution.
     
  5. robbeech

    robbeech Established Member

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    Have you made a note of when you called these people. There’s a small possibility that you’ll need to present this as evidence if something goes wrong. If not I’d try giving Virgin another call (and make a note of the date and time and who you speak to). It may just be that speaking to a different member of the team will yield better results. I appreciate that ‘better results’ are by default not hearing anything and the problem going away but if they have sent a letter which has got lost in the post (it happens less than we think but it does happen) then it’s in your interest to keep a check on things.
    If they are in the process of dealing with it then you’ll get it anyway, if they’ve discarded it then they won’t have a record and won’t be interested in reopening a case if you call them.
     
  6. robert7111a

    robert7111a Established Member

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    Can you remember if you were given a Penalty Fare? (technically, this is not a fine)

    If you have lost it, then the window of opportunity to pay has probably gone and the TOC may start legal procedings against you.

    Of course, you may be lucky and the matter hasn't been escalated (or the TOC has forgotten) or, as other posts suggest, it can take up to 6 months for correspondance to be sent out to you
     
  7. swt_passenger

    swt_passenger Veteran Member

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    Is that even possible?
     
  8. Merseysider

    Merseysider Established Member Fares Advisor

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    Based on the journey made, it won’t be a Penalty Fare.
     
  9. scrapy

    scrapy Member

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    Assuming you were on a direct train between Liverpool and Manchester Airport you would have been on a train operated by Northern. Can you confirm if that was the case?

    Northern only started issuing penalty fares on that route this week so five months ago you would not have received a penalty fare. What you called a 'fine ticket' may have been one of the following.
    a) a receipt for the expired Railcard, b) an unpaid fares notice or c) a failure to purchase notice.

    Were you asked to sign this notice or anything else like a witness statement? Where did this take place? (On the train or on arrival at Manchester Airport station). Can you remember if there was an amount on the notice you were given? If so what was it approximately? Was further payment requested at the time? If so how much?

    It is likely to be Northern that is dealing with this although could be Transpennine if you were stopped on arrival at Manchester Airport. If you went via Warrington or Crewe it would also be helpful to know as a number of train operators could be invokved.
     
  10. robbeech

    robbeech Established Member

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    Possibly not, perhaps using the term backdated wasn't necessary. I suppose the more general have you since bought another railcard would have done. However the answer appears to be no regardless.
     
  11. Bensonby

    Bensonby Member

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    Aren’t all ticketing offences summary? Therefore, if they don’t start proceedings within 6 months they are out of time.
     
  12. ForTheLoveOf

    ForTheLoveOf Established Member

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    A fraud offence wouldn't necessarily be summary - but it would have to be significantly more than an out of date Railcard once for it to reach that level, even for overzealous railway prosecutors.
     
  13. Puffing Devil

    Puffing Devil Established Member

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    Correct. Though if the OP has heard nothing to date, there is the possibility of an incorrect name/address being recorded, hence no follow-up.

    [Edit to add]

    Which means that it could have gone to court already with the OP being unaware.
     
    Last edited: 17 May 2018
  14. furio000

    furio000 Member

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    I can''t remember if they ask me to sign it. It was took place on arrival at Manchester Airport station. They don't ask me to pay anything at that time. I think I need try to contact with Northern
     
    Last edited: 17 May 2018

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