V150 Traction systems

[HSTEd]

I have a rather technical question about the V150, so its a toss up between here and the Traction forum, but I guess people who know more about TGVs are likely to hang around here so I will ask it here.

The V150 seems to have had powered bogies that contributed more to the traction power of the train than the power cars themselves, but were these powered bogies supplied from transformers carried in the power cars, in the end cars, or in the central coach in the formation?

I ask because I've been puzzling over the "TGV Grande Capacité" concept in the context of producing a ~400m TGV Duplex type formation for HS2.

I was wondering if you could just add fifteen trailers to the V150 formation, and how the location of the traction motors would have to be altered to allow this. (Ie: whether the motors have to be mounted together in the centre of the train somehow or if they could be mounted at one or both ends)

It would seem that if a modified V150 could be used as the basis of this train that development would not be very long and thus 400m trains could be used for the line without massive development costs.
This would also enable a train that would have ~1300 seats at similar to existing densities to be put into the train with only one train's worth of crew (catering, driver and guard).

Anyone have any thoughts?

 

[TGV]

OK the layout was this:

POS power car with 4 x traction motors uprated from 1250kW each to 1950kW each at each end of the formation. That gave a total of 15,600kW (15.6MW).

In the centre of the formation was a modified duplex R4 with an AGV transformer mounted underneath feeding via traction packs and inverters to 4 AGV permanent magnet motors mounted on the bogies at either end of the central vehicle. These motors are rated at 1,000kW each - up from 750kW in normal use. That contributed a total of 4,000kW.

The total train power was therefore 19,600kW: 15,600kW from the power cars, and 4,000kW from th AGV trailer motors. The other two trailers were an R1 and R8 from a duplex set and had non-powered end bogies next to the power cars, but like all other wheelsets, they were modified for the run even though not powered.

 

[HSTEd]

OK the layout was this:

POS power car with 4 x traction motors uprated from 1250kW each to 1950kW each at each end of the formation. That gave a total of 15,600kW (15.6MW).

In the centre of the formation was a modified duplex R4 with an AGV transformer mounted underneath feeding via traction packs and inverters to 4 AGV permanent magnet motors mounted on the bogies at either end of the central vehicle. These motors are rated at 1,000kW each - up from 750kW in normal use. That contributed a total of 4,000kW.

The total train power was therefore 19,600kW: 15,600kW from the power cars, and 4,000kW from th AGV trailer motors. The other two trailers were an R1 and R8 from a duplex set and had non-powered end bogies next to the power cars, but like all other wheelsets, they were modified for the run even though not powered.

Ah, so I assume this had some deleterious effects on the motors involved in terms of reduced life and so on and that this in no way proves that you could build a 400m TGV trainset that replaced the central two power cars with a handful of AGV power bogies in an attempt to improve seating capacity?

I ask as it appears that a double deck AGV appears a long way off, indeed if it ever arrives at all.

 

[TGV]

Yes, pumping up the power from the motors is outside of their designed limits and while they are perfectly capable of it, the maintenance regime is not intended to work with them at this level. It would be financially impractical to up the maintenence to follow. Also, the extra performance in service, simply isn't needed.

There already is a 400m TGV... but it's a Eurostar, not a Duplex. A 400m duplex would be possible, but the flexibility of simply joining two 200m sets together and splitting them when you don't need the capacity is still SNCF's preferance.