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Vaccine Passports/Permanent restrictions

Typhoon

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Boris Johnson has promised a review into the use of vaccine passports, but said there were "deep and complex issues" to consider.

He said the idea of Covid status certificates - having to show something to go to a pub or the theatre - was a "novelty" for the UK.

Cabinet Office Minister Michael Gove will lead the vaccine passport review.

Note how our PM is suitably vague over whether he wants them or not, and has passed the buck to Gove. Typical Boris ploy so he can't be blamed when it goes wrong. Now all they have to do is find a suitable Tory donor to head up the Vaccine Passport Agency.

(from https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-56169616)
 
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Horizon22

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If it's a case of getting a lateral flow test before you go on holiday or to a large event like a festival then it's pretty affordable since it's a small proportion of the current cost of the ticket. If you need it to go to the pub or to the shops then it's completely unworkable. In both cases it's probably pointless, but I'm a lot more open to pointless safety theatre if doesn't get in the way too muh

Quite. It entirely depends on what sort of "level" we are pitching a negative lateral flow test at. This is an entirely different kettle of fish than vaccines.

International travel is essentially open from mid-May and many won't have had a vaccine by then. Yet you can book a holiday now for June - what happens if the rules change and you're required to have a vaccine but you've already booked your holiday and your slot isn't until July? That could cause some serious issues.
 

35B

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Quite. It entirely depends on what sort of "level" we are pitching a negative lateral flow test at. This is an entirely different kettle of fish than vaccines.

International travel is essentially open from mid-May and many won't have had a vaccine by then. Yet you can book a holiday now for June - what happens if the rules change and you're required to have a vaccine but you've already booked your holiday and your slot isn't until July? That could cause some serious issues.
At that point, frankly, my sympathy is with the poor customer service staff who will take the flak, and NOT the customer who's losing out.

I am in my late 40s, with no relevant health conditions. I know, based on government announcements, that I won't be able to travel abroad until at least mid-May, and that my cohort are not promised to receive a first vaccine until the end of July. I also know that there is a live discussion over vaccine passports, and that other countries have yet to announce any plans of any kind.

If I choose to plan travel in June when I have that knowledge, and things don't drop in a way that allows me to follow my plan, that's on me. I'm not sure I'd have the cheek to demand my money back in those circumstances.
 

Horizon22

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At that point, frankly, my sympathy is with the poor customer service staff who will take the flak, and NOT the customer who's losing out.

I am in my late 40s, with no relevant health conditions. I know, based on government announcements, that I won't be able to travel abroad until at least mid-May, and that my cohort are not promised to receive a first vaccine until the end of July. I also know that there is a live discussion over vaccine passports, and that other countries have yet to announce any plans of any kind.

If I choose to plan travel in June when I have that knowledge, and things don't drop in a way that allows me to follow my plan, that's on me. I'm not sure I'd have the cheek to demand my money back in those circumstances.

If the government of this country slaps up a date of June 21st which says "All legal limits on social contact removed" when actually its "All legal limits on social contact removed, but oops we forgot to add you will be required to have a vaccine before you travel abroad" and remains vague about passports at the present time, I think the vast majority of people will take it as fine to book a trip abroad and would be rather outraged if in the following months they change the rules.

Luckily most firms are allow free cancellations these days, but that doesn't get away from the moral/ethical issues of restricting travel to a select group of people through no fault of their own.
 

LAX54

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If the government of this country slaps up a date of June 21st which says "All legal limits on social contact removed" when actually its "All legal limits on social contact removed, but oops we forgot to add you will be required to have a vaccine before you travel abroad" and remains vague about passports at the present time, I think the vast majority of people will take it as fine to book a trip abroad and would be rather outraged if in the following months they change the rules.

Luckily most firms are allow free cancellations these days, but that doesn't get away from the moral/ethical issues of restricting travel to a select group of people through no fault of their own.
I think it maybe other Countries that say, 'we need proof' rather than the UK saying a 'passport is needed' for all travel
 

Gadget88

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Partick Harvis and Willie rennie don’t support it well done for them standing up in Scottish Parliament.
 

WelshBluebird

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Yet you can book a holiday now for June - what happens if the rules change and you're required to have a vaccine but you've already booked your holiday and your slot isn't until July? That could cause some serious issues.
If you are booking any holiday right now for June, within the UK or internationally, you should plan for it to be disrupted in some way. If you don't then that is on you. It is the same for people who have booked to go away throughout all of this. We all knew that what is allowed is able to be changed at a moments notice. Maybe that isn't fair - but it is what has been the situation for almost 12 months now, so you really should factor that into your plans if you are making plans.
 

35B

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If the government of this country slaps up a date of June 21st which says "All legal limits on social contact removed" when actually its "All legal limits on social contact removed, but oops we forgot to add you will be required to have a vaccine before you travel abroad" and remains vague about passports at the present time, I think the vast majority of people will take it as fine to book a trip abroad and would be rather outraged if in the following months they change the rules.

Luckily most firms are allow free cancellations these days, but that doesn't get away from the moral/ethical issues of restricting travel to a select group of people through no fault of their own.
The Prime Minister of the United Kingdom has said "all legal limits on social contact removed" in an announcement on the plans to change English restrictions. He can be entirely accurate, the plans can remain entirely on track, and yet another government may impose a requirement that prevents my being able to take advantage of that change in law.

The vast majority of people may through ignorance or choice miss the limits on the scope of that announcement, but it makes them no less foolhardy in planning something that they do not, can not, know that they can do at the time they plan to. Whether that applies to someone unable to travel to Scotland, or to Spain, or to NZ is frankly irrelevant.

Personally, on this point, the only grounds on which I consider there will be valid grounds for complaint from frustrated travellers will be if they are otherwise eligible to travel to their chosen destination, and the government do not have an appropriate means of documenting their vaccination status to the satisfaction of the authorities in their destination.
 

WelshBluebird

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The Prime Minister of the United Kingdom has said "all legal limits on social contact removed" in an announcement on the plans to change English restrictions.
The announcement was of the earliest possible date too. Not that it will 100% happen on that date. Peoples reactions that I have seen online seem to be missing that important point too.
 

STINT47

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One option that came to me could be to have specific times for those who have not been vaccinated.

Supermarkets and shops could have a set hour or two a week for people who have refused, cannot have or not yet had chance to get the vaccine. This could also apply to pubs and restaurants whilst cinemas could have specific no vacination screenings.

This would stop people facing discrimination, allow everyone to still use services whilst keeping those who have been vaccinated safe. Not ideal i know but perhaps this could be a fair compromise?
 

RomeoCharlie71

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One option that came to me could be to have specific times for those who have not been vaccinated.

Supermarkets and shops could have a set hour or two a week for people who have refused, cannot have or not yet had chance to get the vaccine. This could also apply to pubs and restaurants whilst cinemas could have specific no vacination screenings.

This would stop people facing discrimination, allow everyone to still use services whilst keeping those who have been vaccinated safe. Not ideal i know but perhaps this could be a fair compromise?
Err, no.
 

LAX54

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The Prime Minister of the United Kingdom has said "all legal limits on social contact removed" in an announcement on the plans to change English restrictions. He can be entirely accurate, the plans can remain entirely on track, and yet another government may impose a requirement that prevents my being able to take advantage of that change in law.

The vast majority of people may through ignorance or choice miss the limits on the scope of that announcement, but it makes them no less foolhardy in planning something that they do not, can not, know that they can do at the time they plan to. Whether that applies to someone unable to travel to Scotland, or to Spain, or to NZ is frankly irrelevant.

Personally, on this point, the only grounds on which I consider there will be valid grounds for complaint from frustrated travellers will be if they are otherwise eligible to travel to their chosen destination, and the government do not have an appropriate means of documenting their vaccination status to the satisfaction of the authorities in their destination.
There should be no vaccine passports / ID cards as such, BUT if another Country says they need one, then by June/July the process should be in place to deal with this, its' not hard, they have ALL your details when you get jabbed ! just a matter of getting it to you in a format that is acceptable to all.
 

TheAlbanach_

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Not just you. It astounds me that people aren't remembering that the ability to restart traveling overseas will be limited by the destination country, not by UK rules. Shouldn't be beyond the wit of holidaymakers to understand this but apparently it is.
This. Exactly this. Do people think that just because restrictions end here they can do travel wherever they want? I’ve said it before, and I’ll say it again. No one has the right to travel, any country can set whatever entry requirements they please for people that aren’t citizens. I don’t get how people don’t understand that.
 

Gadget88

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One option that came to me could be to have specific times for those who have not been vaccinated.

Supermarkets and shops could have a set hour or two a week for people who have refused, cannot have or not yet had chance to get the vaccine. This could also apply to pubs and restaurants whilst cinemas could have specific no vacination screenings.

This would stop people facing discrimination, allow everyone to still use services whilst keeping those who have been vaccinated safe. Not ideal i know but perhaps this could be a fair compromise?
Why if you had the vaccine you are protected. Surely the person is more at risk is the unvaccinated person so why would vaccinated people want to avoid those unvaccinated when there may be a small spread still even with the vaccine?

This. Exactly this. Do people think that just because restrictions end here they can do travel wherever they want? I’ve said it before, and I’ll say it again. No one has the right to travel, any country can set whatever entry requirements they please for people that aren’t citizens. I don’t get how people don’t understand that.
A very ignorant opinion. We live in a free society so travel should be included. Clearly you have the lockdown glasses on.
 

greyman42

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I see that the narrative seems to be changing, and Boris is suggesting that it may be a good idea for domestic vaccine passports to be used here.

Goodbye human rights and medical confidentiality.
He could just be scaremongering to try to get people to get the jab, who are reluctant.
 

Freightmaster

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Do people think that just because restrictions end here they can do travel wherever they want?
Yes.

Boris said "no foreign holidays until June", people take that to mean that they have been given carte blanche
to book a foreign holiday from mid-June onwards because 'Boris said so'

I’ve said it before, and I’ll say it again. No one has the right to travel, any country can set whatever entry requirements they please for people that aren’t citizens.
I don’t get how people don’t understand that.
With all due respect, I think you are missing the point that 99% of the UK population is utterly incapable of critical thinking,
as has been proven time and time again over the past 12 months, so they take everything that Boris says at face value;
if you don't "get" that, you obviously don't have much first hand experience of the general public!! ;)





MARK
 

TheAlbanach_

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Why if you had the vaccine you are protected. Surely the person is more at risk is the unvaccinated person so why would vaccinated people want to avoid those unvaccinated when there may be a small spread still even with the vaccine?


A very ignorant opinion. We live in a free society so travel should be included. Clearly you have the lockdown glasses on.
Okay, so go to Russia without a visa then, see how far you get on. I want this lockdown to end, I’m sick of this. I don’t want people to be restricted with what they can do in this country, but what say do I have in other countries? None.

Yes.

Boris said "no foreign holidays until June", people take that to mean that they have been given carte blanche
to book a foreign holiday from mid-June onwards because 'Boris said so'


With all due respect, I think you are missing the point that 99% of the UK population is utterly incapable of critical thinking,
as has been proven time and time again over the past 12 months, so they take everything that Boris says at face value;
if you don't "get" that, you obviously don't have much first hand experience of the general public!! ;)





MARK
Oh believe me I have too much experience with the general public, maybe I’m just numb to it now? :D:lol:
 

MikeWM

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He could just be scaremongering to try to get people to get the jab, who are reluctant.

He seems all over the place, just for a change

https://www.theguardian.com/society...ow-covid-vaccine-status-or-latest-test-result
People could have their vaccine status or their latest Covid test result put on their NHS app

...just as I suggested was the plan in September...

“This is an area where we’re looking at a novelty for our country. We haven’t had stuff like this before,” Johnson said during a school visit on Tuesday.

“We’ve never thought in terms of having something that you have to show to go to a pub or a theatre, so there are deep and complex issues that we need to explore. Ethical issues about what the role is for government in mandating people to have such things, or indeed banning people from doing such a thing. There are complex issues we need to work out.”

Michael Gove, the Cabinet Office minister, will chair the review into the status certificates, Johnson confirmed.

“I know fervent libertarians will object but other people will think there’s a case for it,” he said.


So we may require them, or leave it up to the market, or ban them. Good to see how clear they are on this - not like it is a vitally important issue or anything.

I also don't think one needs to be a 'fervent libertarian' to object to a 'papers please' society, or a society that forces or coerces healthy people to undergo medical treatment.
 

Gadget88

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Okay, so go to Russia without a visa then, see how far you get on. I want this lockdown to end, I’m sick of this. I don’t want people to be restricted with what they can do in this country, but what say do I have in other countries? None.


Oh believe me I have too much experience with the general public, maybe I’m just numb to it now? :D:lol:
You are just a ignorant to the social inequality a vaccine passport would bring and the inequality is the words of Patrick Harvie.
 

Horizon22

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This. Exactly this. Do people think that just because restrictions end here they can do travel wherever they want? I’ve said it before, and I’ll say it again. No one has the right to travel, any country can set whatever entry requirements they please for people that aren’t citizens. I don’t get how people don’t understand that.

Have no issue with restrictions being placed if they are blanket but we run the risk of a de-facto "you can travel wherever you want, so long as you're over 50". If I was being really cynical, I'd suggest the government would be happy enough with that as its not like the young by and large vote Conservative anyway.
 

Darandio

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You are just a ignorant to the social inequality a vaccine passport would bring and the inequality is the words of Patrick Harvie.

They aren't being ignorant to it at all. It's fairly simple, if other countries require it for entry then there is little we can do about it.
 

Gadget88

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One good thing is we will have a debate in society about which I have been calling for. Some strong political voices talk about the social injustices and inequality it would bring. Hopefully the result is these discriminatory passports never got off the ground. We should turn round to Greece and say if you don’t want out tourism we will go elsewhere they will soon come running when they go bankrupt again.

They aren't being ignorant to it at all. It's fairly simple, if other countries require it for entry then there is little we can do about it.
Well we refuse to print the passports and people go elsewhere simple as. I am sure other countries will welcome Brits. Surely there is a bigger risk from countries with no land border than UK which will have a higher uptake than Europe. The risk isn’t from UK tourists. It’s simply vaccinated people on forums who are scared of unvaccinated people despite the fact the vaccine protects them!
 

Gadget88

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nlogax

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Well we refuse to print the passports and people go elsewhere simple as. I am sure other countries will welcome Brits. Surely there is a bigger risk from countries with no land border than UK which will have a higher uptake than Europe. The risk isn’t from UK tourists. It’s simply vaccinated people on forums who are scared of unvaccinated people despite the fact the vaccine protects them!

I'm sorry. Are you for real?
 

Gadget88

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I'm sorry. Are you for real?
Yes. It’s discrimination argue all day if you like but that’s the fact

And Nicola Sturgeon didn't even rule it out...

Domestically, vaccination passports need ruled out, pronto.
Exactly the idea of needing one for the supermarket is bonkers. In terms of countries it should only be certain ones I think a world wide ban would be OTT. As far as I am concerned I will happily never visit Greece.
 

nlogax

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Yes. It’s discrimination argue all day if you like but that’s the fact

You've missed the point by a few football fields, I'm actually quite impressed. This is about -countries that aren't even yet open for tourism-. There are apparently thousands of people out spending hundreds or thousands of pounds on holidays to countries that haven't even indicated when they'll be reopening their borders to the likes of us. Vaccine passports or not.
 

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