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Vaccine Progress, Approval, and Deployment

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_toommm_

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Booked mine in for tomorrow as a 21-year old. Excited but nervous as I’ve got a long weekend at work after the jab.
 

Domh245

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An interesting development, which whilst forced by circumstance is welcome

Covid: Children aged 12-17 unlikely to be offered vaccine in UK​


A decision to vaccinate all 12 to 17-year-old children against Covid is unlikely to be recommended by UK vaccine experts imminently, the BBC has been told.

Certain groups of children may still be offered a Covid jab - but not all.
A statement from the Joint Committee on Vaccination and Immunisation (JCVI) is expected in the coming days.
The government will then make a final decision on whether teenagers will be included in the mass rollout.
Vaccinating all over-18s with a first dose and two-thirds of adults with a second dose by 19 July is the latest target set by the UK government.
There has been much speculation over whether children were going to be included in the UK's vaccination programme against Covid-19 after regulator the MHRA approved Pfizer's use in 12 to 15-year-olds recently.
But the JCVI - the committee of UK vaccine experts which advises the government on the best approach - has not yet made any formal recommendation on the matter.
Current advice is that 16 to 18-year-olds can be offered a Pfizer jab if they are in a priority group, or live with someone who has a weakened immune system.
The committee may be waiting for more safety data on children who have been vaccinated in other countries, such as the US and Israel, before making its decision.

The MHRA's approval was based on trials of the Pfizer vaccine in 2,200 adolescents in the US which showed it was safe and effective, but this is a relatively small number.
At the same time, the UK's stock of Pfizer and Moderna vaccines is being prioritised for adults aged 18 to 40 - who are not being offered AstraZeneca - meaning supplies available for children are currently low.
However, for the experts there are a whole host of factors to consider, including the benefits and risks for children, as well as other wider ethical issues.

'Finely balanced issue'​

Children's risk of severe disease from Covid is tiny, deaths are extremely rare and have only occurred in UK children with profound underlying and life-limiting conditions. The direct benefits to them of vaccination would be low.
Some people question whether it's morally right to vaccinate children in the UK, when so many millions of other people in the rest of the world are still unvaccinated.
On the other hand, vaccinating children could reduce infections across society, help protect adults and the vulnerable who are most at risk, and keep schools open.
"This is a very finely balanced issue and a difficult decision," says Prof Calum Semple, professor of outbreak medicine and child health from the University of Liverpool, who is also a member of the scientific advisory group, Sage.
He said he was "veering towards not vaccinating children" because of the need to get the vaccine into the arms of more hard-to-reach adults instead.

"The virus is spreading in schools because it's got nowhere else to hide at the moment," Prof Semple said, adding that improved ventilation in classrooms was much more of a priority than masks in schools.
Vaccinating children would be "mainly to protect public health and reduce transmission", he added.
It's possible the government is not rushing any decision because it wants to see the impact of vaccinating all adults in the UK on virus cases, which have been rising steadily since the end of May.

Vaccine supplies​

A target of giving two doses to two-thirds of the UK's adult population was set by the prime minister on Monday - but that is principally the over-40s, who are due to receive the AstraZeneca vaccine.
There are concerns there are not enough Pfizer or Moderna vaccines to start vaccinating younger age groups any earlier.
A Department of Health and Social Care spokesperson said: "No decisions have yet been made on whether people aged 12 to 17 should be routinely offered Covid-19 vaccines.
"We will be guided by our expert advisers, and the government has asked the JCVI for its formal recommendation. We will update in due course."
 

Darandio

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I agree that this looks like the right decision given the factors outlined, but not sure why it's "welcome".

It's welcome because these vaccines shouldn't be anywhere our children. If there are surplus vaccines that could have been set aside to this age group then they should be sent abroad to vaccinate adults that need them.
 

hwl

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It's welcome because these vaccines shouldn't be anywhere our children. If there are surplus vaccines that could have been set aside to this age group then they should be sent abroad to vaccinate adults that need them.
Given the estimates of R0 values for the delta strain, the crude indicative herd thresholds can only be achieved with some under 18 coverage, hence I suspect they might head towards adding 16 & 17 year olds and a targeted push at unvaccinated 18+. They don't need to decide imminently any way as they have more than enough to get on with productively including reducing the gap between jabs for the next 2+ months.

The ZOE study has now made a new map in addition to its infection estimates, this time accounting for estimated vaccine uptake:


View attachment 98262
No surprises the major urban areas are behind.

There is a good cartogram with case rates and vaccination rates here:
and expected extra mortality rates due to lower vaccination rates here:

*****

I had 1st jab booked via GP (CCG in reality) originally and got a text earlier this week to book for a 2nd which will be 7 weeks exactly after the first (AZ).
 
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johnnychips

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Given the estimates of R0 values for the delta strain, the crude indicative herd thresholds can only be achieved with some under 18 coverage, hence I suspect they might head towards adding 16 & 17 year olds and a targeted push at unvaccinated 18+. They don't need to decide imminently any way as they have more than enough to get on with productively including reducing the gap between jabs for the next 2+ months.


No surprises the major urban areas are behind.

There is a good cartogram with case rates and vaccination rates here:
and expected extra mortality rates due to lower vaccination rates here:

*****
When I read the intro to the maps on Twitter ‘if every unvaccinated person caught Covid’ I gave up. The author should apply to be on SAGE immediately.

Urban areas have a lower percentage of vaccinations because
- there is a higher percentage of younger people in urban areas, and they have not been offered the vaccine yet
-following on, younger people, who might have been offered the vaccine, are more vaccine sceptical
- there is a higher proportion of people who for ethnic or religious reasons do not want to take the vaccine.
 
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Richard Scott

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When I read the intro to the maps ‘if every unvaccinated person caught Covid’ I gave up.
Urban areas have a lower percentage of vaccine uptake because
- there is a higher percentage of younger people in urban areas, and they have not been offered the vaccine yet
-following on, younger people, who might have been offered the vaccine, are more vaccine sceptical
- there is a higher proportion of people who for ethnic or religious reasons do not want to take the vaccine.
The big problem now is not the virus itself, whether the NHS is going to become overloaded but the obsession that politicians and media have with it. We don't need to vaccinate everyone. Teenagers are more at risk from flu but we don't vaccinate them against it. It's become an unhealthy obsession.
 

johnnychips

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The big problem now is not the virus itself, whether the NHS is going to become overloaded but the obsession that politicians and media have with it. We don't need to vaccinate everyone. Teenagers are more at risk from flu but we don't vaccinate them against it. It's become an unhealthy obsession.
I agree Richard. I have edited my post slightly while you were replying to it
 

35B

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It's welcome because these vaccines shouldn't be anywhere our children. If there are surplus vaccines that could have been set aside to this age group then they should be sent abroad to vaccinate adults that need them.
I agree that the value is greatest elsewhere, but don’t have a problem with the vaccine being used in children - indeed, would give consent for mine to receive it.
 

DelayRepay

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At some point, we will have to decide what we do about teenagers who are becoming adults. Do we offer them a vaccine as they turn 18?

There are two factors I think. One is the level of Covid that continues to circulate after the majority of adults have been vaccinated. The other is requirements that other countries may put in place for international travel. It would be very unfair for someone who turns 18 later in the year not to be able to go abroad (or to be subject to quarantine rules etc).

This morning the BBC are reporting the results of the latest React 1 study (to 7 June)


most cases were among five- to 12-year-olds and 18- to 24-year-olds

The 18 - 24 year olds are not a surprise given most of them won't be vaccinated yet. But this suggests there's perhaps limited value in vaccinating teenagers. I suppose the 5 - 12 year olds have higher cases than the teenagers because it's harder for children of that age to socially distance, and primary schools aren't doing regular testing like secondary schools are. So if we are going to vaccinate children perhaps we should work up through the age groups, rather than down?

I do agree with other posters that vaccinating children should not be a priority at the moment, while there is a global vaccine shortage.
 

The Ham

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The big problem now is not the virus itself, whether the NHS is going to become overloaded but the obsession that politicians and media have with it. We don't need to vaccinate everyone. Teenagers are more at risk from flu but we don't vaccinate them against it. It's become an unhealthy obsession.

We don't vaccinate all secondary school children against flu, however those with a health condition which puts them at risk from the flu so get it.

However comparing the Flu/Covid vaccines is going to show different answers, as fairly few adults get the flu vaccine and many that so have to pay for it, whilst all children aged 3 through to end of primary school are offered it.

I however do age that the right decision is to offer the Covid Vaccine to teenagers with heath reasons to have it and get the vaccines to others worldwide as fast as possible and back to do our kids later. As whilst it would be "better" that they are vaccinated to limit the risk of spread here the best thing to do is to limit the spread everywhere so as to limit the risk of a new variant coming about and failing that limiting the risk of significant cases spreading from its source.
 

Richard Scott

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We don't vaccinate all secondary school children against flu, however those with a health condition which puts them at risk from the flu so get it.

However comparing the Flu/Covid vaccines is going to show different answers, as fairly few adults get the flu vaccine and many that so have to pay for it, whilst all children aged 3 through to end of primary school are offered it.

I however do age that the right decision is to offer the Covid Vaccine to teenagers with heath reasons to have it and get the vaccines to others worldwide as fast as possible and back to do our kids later. As whilst it would be "better" that they are vaccinated to limit the risk of spread here the best thing to do is to limit the spread everywhere so as to limit the risk of a new variant coming about and failing that limiting the risk of significant cases spreading from its source.
I agree no issues with offering it to those with health conditions but widespread vaccination is not necessary and agree with opinion that vaccines should be sent to countries that need them.
 

david1212

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The ZOE study has now made a new map in addition to its infection estimates, this time accounting for estimated vaccine uptake:


View attachment 98262

The map above shows that city areas show a lower take up of the vaccine. Partly this accountable for by the lower average age of those living there. However the article below shows the take up in several areas Birmingham by the over 50's who should now at least have their second vaccination booked if not already received to be only around 60% while the number of infections is rising.


0_vax-rates-city.jpg


While all have a choice I do agree with Liam Fox


He said: “What we cannot have is the country being held to ransom by any groups who have been offered a vaccine but have chosen not to take – that is utterly unacceptable.”
 

DustyBin

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The map above shows that city areas show a lower take up of the vaccine. Partly this accountable for by the lower average age of those living there. However the article below shows the take up in several areas Birmingham by the over 50's who should now at least have their second vaccination booked if not already received to be only around 60% while the number of infections is rising.



0_vax-rates-city.jpg


While all have a choice I do agree with Liam Fox

It’s not those people holding the country to ransom though is it, it’s the government.
 

Silver Cobra

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Sorry to hear of your trouble, I hope it continues to calm down.

My Mother had blood clots in her chest a few weeks after her first jab and found no information to help her make a very difficult decision about her second jab.

The medical world were dismissive yes men and it worried her sick for weeks.

Meanwhile the world was shouting about the dangers of the jab being anti fax propaganda

She did eventually have the second jab and is fine but she is in her 70,s ans has immune system issues so in the end the weight of threat just tipped in favour of the jabs.

I’d love to meet the internet mouths who say it’s all such a simple decision, maybe put them in front of people like you and my Mum.

People need to try walking in others shoes.

Good luck

Likewise I'm sorry to hear that you've had this issue and hope that you continue to improve.



A fair and balanced comment.

I would however say that there's a big difference between saying to the general population that it's the best thing to have your vaccine and what to say to someone who has appeared (and I use that word as there's no certainty either way, not because I'm doubting the genuine concerns that having the second dose) to have a link between the vaccine and blood clots.

What I would say, is that given there appeared to have been a link with the first dose I would like to think that the NHS would have measures in place to ensure monitoring after the second dose, or at least when the diagnosis was made clear guidance as to what to symptoms to look out for were given.

Thank you both for your kind words, and sorry I didn't reply sooner.

As an update to my situation, I visited Bedford hospital on Wednesday for my CT scan (quite a surreal experience, especially when they add the dye to your circulation to help show your veins/arteries on the scan, the feeling it creates in certain parts of your body). Late yesterday afternoon the hospital contacted me to inform me that, thankfully, I do not have any blood clots. So this means either the blood thinners were able to clear any small clots before I had the scan, or the blood test last Thursday reported a potential false positive. Nevertheless, it's a huge relief to know, at least in that regard, I'm OK now. I still have some issues with my left arm and shoulder, but hopefully some strong anti-inflammatories/pain-killers will help to clear that.

With this all in mind, it has rebuilt some confidence in going ahead with the second dose of Pfizer on August 12th, but I'll have to be careful to take it properly easy for the first few days afterwards. It's quite likely I overdid it a bit after having my first dose, which provoked the issues I have had over the last few weeks.
 

35B

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Thank you both for your kind words, and sorry I didn't reply sooner.

As an update to my situation, I visited Bedford hospital on Wednesday for my CT scan (quite a surreal experience, especially when they add the dye to your circulation to help show your veins/arteries on the scan, the feeling it creates in certain parts of your body). Late yesterday afternoon the hospital contacted me to inform me that, thankfully, I do not have any blood clots. So this means either the blood thinners were able to clear any small clots before I had the scan, or the blood test last Thursday reported a potential false positive. Nevertheless, it's a huge relief to know, at least in that regard, I'm OK now. I still have some issues with my left arm and shoulder, but hopefully some strong anti-inflammatories/pain-killers will help to clear that.

With this all in mind, it has rebuilt some confidence in going ahead with the second dose of Pfizer on August 12th, but I'll have to be careful to take it properly easy for the first few days afterwards. It's quite likely I overdid it a bit after having my first dose, which provoked the issues I have had over the last few weeks.
I'm glad to hear you've had that result - I hope all goes well hereon in
 

The Ham

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Thank you both for your kind words, and sorry I didn't reply sooner.

As an update to my situation, I visited Bedford hospital on Wednesday for my CT scan (quite a surreal experience, especially when they add the dye to your circulation to help show your veins/arteries on the scan, the feeling it creates in certain parts of your body). Late yesterday afternoon the hospital contacted me to inform me that, thankfully, I do not have any blood clots. So this means either the blood thinners were able to clear any small clots before I had the scan, or the blood test last Thursday reported a potential false positive. Nevertheless, it's a huge relief to know, at least in that regard, I'm OK now. I still have some issues with my left arm and shoulder, but hopefully some strong anti-inflammatories/pain-killers will help to clear that.

With this all in mind, it has rebuilt some confidence in going ahead with the second dose of Pfizer on August 12th, but I'll have to be careful to take it properly easy for the first few days afterwards. It's quite likely I overdid it a bit after having my first dose, which provoked the issues I have had over the last few weeks.

Glad you had some fairly positive test results. Personally I'd still keep an eye out for symptoms, just to be sure.

I wish you well and hope that there's no complications after the second dose.
 

HSTEd

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Well that appears to be it for Astra Zeneca.

For the last several weeks irreplacable Pfizer first doses have been squandered on over 30s/40s, and now there are no more vaccination targets on which the piles of AZ vaccine we now have (now the second dose debt is basically gone) can be used.

Whatever the JCVI decide, there can be no significant vaccination of schoolchildren before autumn.

The cynic in me suggests the JCVI will recommend against vaccinating schoolchildren, mainly to prevent this debacle from becoming obvious.
 

DelayRepay

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Well that appears to be it for Astra Zeneca.

For the last several weeks irreplacable Pfizer first doses have been squandered on over 30s/40s, and now there are no more vaccination targets on which the piles of AZ vaccine we now have (now the second dose debt is basically gone) can be used.

I think there are a few more weeks of AZ second doses. I am 41 and I had my first dose a week after they opened up eligibility, on 8 May, so my second dose is two weeks from now (originally it was the end of July but I rebooked it).

But yes, when the 19 July date comes around the AZ programme will be finished. We can then use our AZ supplies to meet our oversees commitments.
 

philosopher

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Well that appears to be it for Astra Zeneca.

For the last several weeks irreplacable Pfizer first doses have been squandered on over 30s/40s, and now there are no more vaccination targets on which the piles of AZ vaccine we now have (now the second dose debt is basically gone) can be used.

Whatever the JCVI decide, there can be no significant vaccination of schoolchildren before autumn.

The cynic in me suggests the JCVI will recommend against vaccinating schoolchildren, mainly to prevent this debacle from becoming obvious.
There is still the Moderna vaccine. I know they do have many doses of them, but they may still have enough to vaccinate 16 and 17 year olds though probably not all teenagers.
 

VauxhallandI

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Quick question-my other half has their second jab booked for 23rd July.

How can they check for an earlier appointment without losing their first and risk having to rebook even later than the current date?
 

Simon11

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Quick question-my other half has their second jab booked for 23rd July.

How can they check for an earlier appointment without losing their first and risk having to rebook even later than the current date?
This is the big issue! Its not also about getting a later slot but a nearby location too.

If nearby, I would trying walking in and see if they can fit you in. So many walk in slots now.

My first vaccine was three weeks ago and I shall try next week to walk in to get it all done!
 

DelayRepay

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This is the big issue! Its not also about getting a later slot but a nearby location too.

If nearby, I would trying walking in and see if they can fit you in. So many walk in slots now.

My first vaccine was three weeks ago and I shall try next week to walk in to get it all done!

This article suggests they've changed the online form so you can now see appointment availability before cancelling your appointment.


It looks like you have to click 'Cancel and rebook' then the system shows you local appointment availability over the next five days, before you confirm you want to cancel. Pic below is from the linked article and shows someone being able to check local appointment availability before cancelling.

1624187159116.png
 

HSTEd

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There is still the Moderna vaccine. I know they do have many doses of them, but they may still have enough to vaccinate 16 and 17 year olds though probably not all teenagers.

It's arriving so slowly that it won't matter.

It's about 100,000 doses per week.
 

Darandio

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I think there are a few more weeks of AZ second doses. I am 41 and I had my first dose a week after they opened up eligibility, on 8 May, so my second dose is two weeks from now (originally it was the end of July but I rebooked it).

But yes, when the 19 July date comes around the AZ programme will be finished. We can then use our AZ supplies to meet our oversees commitments.

I'm still 6 weeks away from a second dose of AZ, assuming they are still working on the 8 week timescale and not 12.
 

Simon11

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This article suggests they've changed the online form so you can now see appointment availability before cancelling your appointment.


It looks like you have to click 'Cancel and rebook' then the system shows you local appointment availability over the next five days, before you confirm you want to cancel. Pic below is from the linked article and shows someone being able to check local appointment availability before cancelling.

View attachment 98484

An upgrade but not perfect as you can only see availability at the same centre you booked it as.

I've had a look and it says "We cannot find any appointments at your chosen vaccination centre"

So I'm still left with the uncertainty of whether to take the hit to see if another centre nearby has an earlier slot....
 

david1212

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An upgrade but not perfect as you can only see availability at the same centre you booked it as.

I've had a look and it says "We cannot find any appointments at your chosen vaccination centre"

So I'm still left with the uncertainty of whether to take the hit to see if another centre nearby has an earlier slot....

Is it not intended that you have your second vaccination at the same centre as the first to ensure you get the same type ?

I wonder how that will work for the very recent pop-up no appointment vaccination centres at major sports stadiums etc. Maybe it is expected that the second vaccination will be booked and the system will know which vaccine was given and hence only offer centres administering that vaccine ?
 
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