Valid on Gatwick Express?

[MCR247]

Hi All

Just a quickie (I hope):

Would a Nottingham - Porstmouth Stns Advance ticket be valid to travel on Gatwick Express and then change for a southern service as you would probably catch up an earlier service.

Thanks in advance

EDIT: I have decided against this anyway, so need need to reply.

 

[TEW]

Doubtful, as you will have a reservation from London-Portsmouth so will have to travel on a specific service.

 

[MCR247]

Doubtful, as you will have a reservation from London-Portsmouth so will have to travel on a specific service.

There is no reservation from London- Porstmouth, just the EMT part.

EDIT: I have decided against this anyway, so need need to reply.

 

[yorkie]

The short answer is "it's debatable"

But as you're not doing it, I won't list the reasons for and against. The principles have been covered before in other topics though.

 

[t0ffeeman]

Every time I've tried to get the Gat Express to get a catch an earlier train to Barnham, I just end up on the same train I'd have picked up at Victoria. Perhaps I go at the wrong times of the day or the Express really isn't that fast.

 

[LilLoaf]

Is a PRIV pass vaild on the Gatwick Express? As in the old BR Priv pass that allows travel on all trains except Grand Central, and Wrexham & Shropshire.

 

[yorkie]

I think people are confusing Gatwick Express with the Heathrow Express.

Gatwick Express was just a normal TOC, like any other. Now it's part of Southern, but still branded Gatwick Express, in the same way that Stansted Express is run by National Express East Anglia.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Every time I've tried to get the Gat Express to get a catch an earlier train to Barnham, I just end up on the same train I'd have picked up at Victoria. Perhaps I go at the wrong times of the day or the Express really isn't that fast.

It just doesn't call at Clapham or East Croydon.

 

[t0ffeeman]

The big time waster on the Southern is the splitting/connecting at Redhill, and if FCC doesn't go via there there's no real point getting the Gat Express to go south. The 2 mins you'd end up changing platforms defeats this.

 

[renfespotter]

A few years ago I bought a ticket at Victoria for Gatwick. I got on the Gatwick Express. The ticket inspector gave me a ticking off saying he would have to ask me to leave the train at the next station. So I got off at Gatwick

 

[paul1609]

If youre travelling to a destination on/orvia the arun valley line the only time its wotth getting the gatwick express is in the up direction on a sunday when arun valley trains aldo call at Horley and purley.

 

[jopsuk]

I think people are confusing Gatwick Express with the Heathrow Express.

Gatwick Express was just a normal TOC, like any other. Now it's part of Southern, but still branded Gatwick Express, in the same way that Stansted Express is run by National Express East Anglia.

But unlike the Stansted Express, there are Gat-Ex specific fares, and it potentially can be used for connections beyond Gatwick. Whilst in theory you could travel to (say) Cambridge using the Stan Ex and changing to an XC service, I'm not sure this would ever save you time, and there's no "Stansted Express" fares.

 

[will1337]

Are there still Gat-Ex specific fares now that it has merged with Southern? Looking on the latest Advantix there doesn't seem to be any from Victoria - Gatwick.

 

[yorkie]

Are there still Gat-Ex specific fares now that it has merged with Southern? Looking on the latest Advantix there doesn't seem to be any from Victoria - Gatwick.

That's right they were withdrawn.

But even when they existed they (obviously) only applied to Victoria-Gatwick. A ticket from anywhere else to anywhere else would be valid unless explicitly marked "Not Gatwick Express" but flows where such tickets exist are quite limited.

There would be absolutely nothing stopping someone with a ticket like Finsbury Park to Brighton, Peterborough to Gatwick, or anything like that, using Gatwick Express.

The assumption made by many people seems to be that only tickets routed "Gatwick Express only" were valid on the Gatwick Express, which was wrong. Now such tickets do not exist anyway. Any Permitted tickets can always be used on Gatwick Express for all flows where Victoria-Gatwick is on a permitted route.

NCoC states:-

10. Tickets valid only in trains of particular Train Companies
The validity of a ticket may:
a) be restricted to; or
b) prohibit
travel in the trains of a particular Train Company or Train Companies. Any such restriction or prohibition will be shown on the ticket.

So if it does not say it's restricted to or prohibited from particular TOCs then they cannot stop you using that TOC. This is probably why Virgin can't (and, reportedly don't as I've never heard of anyone be chinged on one) enforce the supposed ban on their services with West Mids Day Rangers, for example.

 

[glynn80]

NCoC states:-

Originally Posted by NCoC
10. Tickets valid only in trains of particular Train Companies
The validity of a ticket may:
a) be restricted to; or
b) prohibit travel in the trains of a particular Train Company or Train Companies. Any such restriction or prohibition will be shown on the ticket.

I think you are getting confused here.

The condition 10. of the NRCOC applies to "Tickets valid only in trains of a particular Train Companies", i.e. ones restricted for use on usually a single TOC (although with connections can be multiple) e.g. an Advance ticket as shown in this image on therailticketgallery (http://therailticketgallery.fotopic.net/p22157013.html).

Condition 10. would not be applicable on Any Permitted fares as they are not valid only in trains of particular Train Companies, they are valid on all TOCs except those barred by routeing issues, which do not specifically bar travel on a particular TOC merely a specific route.

I think the case with Virgin and West Midlands Day Rangers is one of lack of staff knowledge of Rover/Ranger fares which has been widely reported rather than that of train managers being instructed not to pull people up on this issues.

 

[yorkie]

I'm not confused, clearly it says that any such restriction will be SHOWN ON the ticket. So if no restriction is shown, then no restriction can (legally) be enforced.

Obviously that means Any Permitted tickets can be used on any TOC, providing it's on a permitted route as both of us have stated previously.

 

[DavyCrocket]

As a regular Gatwick Express user (travelling on one from my local station - south of Gatwick - in a bit) there are still special "premium" fares, that are higher than the FCC or SN fares. A change made was that GatEx tickets could be used on SN services.

Many tickets from round in Sussex are marked as Not Gatwick Express, especially day ones (though it only refers to the Gat-Lon section!).

So long as it hasn't got that marked, or Southern or FCC etc etc ONLY on the ticket then it can be used.

 

[glynn80]

I'm not confused, clearly it says that any such restriction will be SHOWN ON the ticket. So if no restriction is shown, then no restriction can (legally) be enforced.

Did you just ignore everything I wrote, yes it does say any restriction will be "SHOWN ON the ticket", IF THE TICKET IS VALID ONLY ON TRAINS OF PARTICULAR TOCs.

You cannot select which parts of the NRCOC you wish to use without reading the parts that place them into context.

Normally I whole-heartedly agree with the advice you give, but in this circumstance you are misleading anyone reading your posts into thinking their tickets have more validity than they actually do...

 

[Mcr Warrior]

:roll: And another thing. 'Network Card' discounted tickets are apparently not valid on the Gatwick Express.

 

[hairyhandedfool]

Did you just ignore everything I wrote, yes it does say any restriction will be "SHOWN ON the ticket", IF THE TICKET IS VALID ONLY ON TRAINS OF PARTICULAR TOCs.

You cannot select which parts of the NRCOC you wish to use without reading the parts that place them into context.

Normally I whole-heartedly agree with the advice you give, but in this circumstance you are misleading anyone reading your posts into thinking their tickets have more validity than they actually do...

In a sense it is a valid point, although perhaps there is a mis-understanding in how it was mentioned.

What Yorkie is saying is that IF a restriction had applied it, to the effect that it could not be used on GatEx, it would have to be noted on the ticket (condition 10) and that because it is not noted on the ticket, any restriction that may have applied could not be legally enforced.

 

[glynn80]

In a sense it is a valid point, although perhaps there is a mis-understanding in how it was mentioned.

What Yorkie is saying is that IF a restriction had applied it, to the effect that it could not be used on GatEx, it would have to be noted on the ticket (condition 10) and that because it is not noted on the ticket, any restriction that may have applied could not be legally enforced.

But why could it not be legally enforced? If for example an Any Permitted CDR from London to Bognor Regis it is stated within the restriction code that the ticket is not valid on Gatwick Express then why would you even refer to condition 10. as that condition is not related at all to Any Permitted tickets but to tickets valid only in trains of particular Train Companies? But I do understand that Yorkie could have been making the point you state above rather than the point I inferred.

 

[hairyhandedfool]

Condition 10 makes no direct reference to the route printed on the ticket. If a ticket is not permitted on GatEx in the restriction codes, it is restricted to particular TOCs (by omitting one TOC) therefore condition 10 applies, even if it is routed 'Any Permitted'. The National Conditions of Carriage are part of your contract with the relevant TOCs, for all tickets.

 

[glynn80]

Condition 10 makes no direct reference to the route printed on the ticket. If a ticket is not permitted on GatEx in the restriction codes, it is restricted to particular TOCs (by omitting one TOC) therefore condition 10 applies, even if it is routed 'Any Permitted'. The National Conditions of Carriage are part of your contract with the relevant TOCs, for all tickets.

No I was just using an Any Permitted ticket as an example, it could just as easily been a rover ticket which is also does not explicitly state it is restricted to a particular TOC.

Hmm your second point is interesting on your view of the wording but I'd say the word "only" preceding the "in trains of particular Train Companies" places the interpretation as I had originally argued but most likely this is another issue where it will be argued to be an "unfair contract" as the wording was unclear and the court would side with the consumer...

 

[yorkie]

If there is a restriction on TOCs the ticket can be used it will be "shown on the ticket". That's what it says.