Valid ticket does not open gate.

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big_dirt

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Last week I was going North Dulwich to Elephant and Castle for most of the week but did 2 days Tulse Hill to Elephant and Castle. In order to get from North Dulwich to Elephant and Castle I have to change at Tulse Hill so the journey is shorter originating at Tulse Hill.

The barriers at Tulse Hill would not work so I went to the ticket counter where the very helpful lady advised me that I was fine to travel and just to show it to the guy on the gateline who duly opened the gate.

I then have passed through the gateline in this manner a further three times.

I think the issue is that North Dulwich is zone 2/3 and Tulse Hill is zone 3.

My questions are as follows:

Am I travelling within the rules?
Is there any way to get the gates to work?
If there is a revenue checkpoint and I am using this method will I get a penalty fare?
If I were to pay for a weekly to Tulse Hill and travel on to North Dulwich, through Tulse Hill, am I travelling illegally?

I reclaim the cost of the ticket as expenses so prices are not relevant although I cannot reclaim the cost of a penalty fare.

Thanks in advance.
 
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Urban Gateline

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So that we can help you, could you post the exact details of which tickets you are using for this journey?

It could be several things, some stations you may only be allowed to use for your connection and not BOJ (Break of Journey), however the person in the ticket office probably checked the routing and if it was fine then I can't see any reason for you getting into trouble.

Many valid tickets do not operate the barriers simply because of how the barriers have been configured so you may have to continue to show your ticket and be let through manually.
 

anthony263

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Dont worry I have had plenty of occasions where my ticket has not opened the gate even though it is valid, in fact rover tickets are much worse
 

wintonian

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Gatelines can be programmed in many different ways to accept or reject, as example they may be set to reject:

all railcard discounted tickets
those discounted by a specific railcard
child tickets
any ticket that isn't unrouted or where the route isn't on the allowed list
a specific route 'not via London' for example

The chances are your ticket is valid, but obviously we can't say for certain if it is with out more detail.
 

Kentish Paul

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Its not unusual. Every ticket i've bought from the TVM's at Ashford International (valid on HS1) has failed to operate the barriers at St Pancras.
Shown to the guy on the gate and let through. Strangely the same tickets bought from the ticket office have no problems with the barriers.
 

michael769

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The magnetic strips on tickets are not particularly robust and it is perfectly normal for a proportion of tickets to simply not work as a result.
 

big_dirt

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Sorry for taking all day to respond. It's a weekly SEASON-00M07D ticket. The route on it is Not Via London, although both stations are in London I presume this means not via zone 1. Standard Class.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
PS, I think the lady in the ticket office just did her own sense-check instead of referring to a routing guide.
 

sonic2009

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Sorry for taking all day to respond. It's a weekly SEASON-00M07D ticket. The route on it is Not Via London, although both stations are in London I presume this means not via zone 1. Standard Class.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
PS, I think the lady in the ticket office just did her own sense-check instead of referring to a routing guide.

That's a perfectly valid route via Tulse Hill, as others have said it may just be a problem with the mag-strip.
 

wintonian

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Sorry for taking all day to respond. It's a weekly SEASON-00M07D ticket. The route on it is Not Via London, although both stations are in London I presume this means not via zone 1. Standard Class.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
PS, I think the lady in the ticket office just did her own sense-check instead of referring to a routing guide.

Not via London means you are not allowed to go through any of the London terminals, Vauxhall, Waterloo (main & east), Victoria etc.

There is a list here.

In other words you may go through zone 1 in the same way you can go through zones 2- 6 as long as you don't go to a station on the list above.
 

RJ

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I had this problem yesterday morning at Battersea Park with a very similar ticket. My season ticket is valid through there but doesn't open the barriers. It was hard enough getting the clerk to sell me the season ticket in the first place, who tried to claim that I was not allowed to use it to enter/exit an intermediate station and tried to use the barriers to substantiate this misconception. His flapping to the gateline assistant caused me to miss my half hourly train <(
 

RJ

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If a ticket does stop working, is it possible to exchange it for a new one, such as when on a travelcard? (I usually get the ones from the NR machines, not the tfl ones)

Yes, it's known as a "encode exchange." This can be done at any ticket office, though it's probably best you try a ticket office run by the same Train Operating Company who issued you with the ticket, as it will be quicker and easier.
 
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philjo

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Sounds like the same issue I have at Welwyn Garden City. My annual season ticket has never worked in the barriers at WGC - and I know a lot of other people whose tickets don't work there either. A good proportion of those exiting the platforms have to to be let through manually. (despite the fact that if travelling southbound and changing trains you need to pass through 2 sets of barriers in order to change from platfroms 1/2 and 3/4)
my season ticket does work at Potters Bar, Hatfield, Stevenage hitchin & Letchworth GC barriers so it is smething with the WGC configuration that is wrong.
 

trivran

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FCC have their ticket barriers set to reject all Child tickets. Apparently there was a bit of a problem with fare evasion.
 

big_dirt

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I was challenged today at Tulse Hill in relation to my North Dulwich - Elephant and Castle season ticket.

Without wanting to refer to routing guides, as I don't understand them, I just said that in order to go from Elephant to N Dulwich I have to pass through Tulse Hill so therefore I can get off early. This was enough to have him open the gate. I don't know if he was entirely convinced though.

Having to ask them to open the gate has become a bit of a pain. I'd love it if Southern would just programme the barrier to make it operate.

By the way, if I do Tulse - Elephant most often, do Southern earn a bit more if I buy the ticket from North Dulwich because I need to travel on both companies' trains?
 

wintonian

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Had smiler trouble a couple of weeks ago with a Winchester to Eastbourne SDR route Not London ticket a Clapham Junction, the security guard (why are they checking tickets at clapham Junction?) kept insisting it wasn't valid at clapham Junction as the origin was Winchester, after I persisted he he reluctantly let me pass though the gate so I could show it to a member of SWT staff.

It's rather annoying when they program the gates to reject BoJ particularly in an area where its rare for BoJ to be prohibited.
 

DaveNewcastle

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I wonder if you might be confusing some of the explanations which have already been posted here, with the complex validity arising from the Routing Guide? The programming of barriers is certainly not attempting to replicate that coding of validity; they are attempting to capture a proportion of passengers which is proportionate to the available inspection staff, and whose tickets fall within recognised parameters of abuse.
The best example given above was the setting to reject all Railcard discounted tickets.
That has nothing to do with Routing or validity. Its not even something which a barrier COULD confirm. But it is just a recognised form of fare evasion which is easily confirmed if the barrier rejects the ticket in the first instance and requies manual verification (of the Railcard). A similar check might be applied to Child tickets or Off-Peak tickets during peak hours.

I'd love it if Southern would just programme the barrier to make it operate.
I think you are wrong to argue that the barriers are not operating as designed. In each instance you have held a valid ticket, but not one with that station as its destination. For that reason, the barrier has required manual confirmation, and you have been given that.
I've deduced that they are probably operating correctly.
 

Urban Gateline

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the security guard (why are they checking tickets at clapham Junction?) kept insisting it wasn't valid at clapham Junction as the origin was Winchester

That would have been STM agency staff who cover the Gateline role at London stations, they don't get much ticket training but are not as bad as G4S I'd say!
 

wintonian

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I wonder if you might be confusing some of the explanations which have already been posted here, with the complex validity arising from the Routing Guide?

On the flip side I think there are some pepole acting on behalf of TOC's who do as well, though how many seems to vary by TOC and as usual depends on the amount and quality of training provided.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
but are not as bad as G4S I'd say!

Agreed, everything G4S touch seems to end in a right cack-up in my experience and I'm not just thinking of Olympic security either!
 

34D

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I think you are wrong to argue that the barriers are not operating as designed. In each instance you have held a valid ticket, but not one with that station as its destination. For that reason, the barrier has required manual confirmation, and you have been given that.
I've deduced that they are probably operating correctly.

I think I agree with the OP. Many other stations accept some common 'break point' tickets so this one _could_ be added in theory.
 
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