Validity of Senior Railcard in NSE area

[FenMan]

According to the card's conditions, Senior Railcard discounts are available in the Network South East area from the first off-peak service on weekdays.
However, National Rail Enquiries (NRE) is no longer applying this rule for many (but not all) journeys in the area. Instead the discount is only being applied to departures after 9:30am.

For example, NRE reports these return ticket prices for departures from Farnborough Main to Waterloo between 9:00am and 9:45am on Thursday, 4 June (using the full pre-COVID19 timetable):-

09:00: £34.30 - undiscounted Anytime Day Return
09:16: £24.60 - undiscounted Off Peak Day Return
09:32: £16.25 - discounted Off Peak Day Return

This is not just a SWR thing. The same pattern occurs on GWR, Chiltern and West Midlands services, but not GA, SE and Southern (I've not looked at the others).

Is a change in the Card's conditions in the offing?
Or fat fingers/a mistake?

 

[1955LR]

The wording of the senior railcard conditions seems suitably vague .
"
Conditions of use of the Senior Railcard
4.1. You must be aged 60 years or over to purchase a Senior Railcard.

4.2. Discounts are not available on tickets for travel on morning peak services for journeys that start and end within the London & South East area (defined by the Network Railcard area – network-railcard.co.uk/map) on Monday to Friday (except on public holidays). The time when off-peak services start can vary by station. Use nationalrail.co.uk to plan your journey to identify when off-peak services start or ask rail staff for details.

I live outside the London Southeast area but understood my Senior Card was not valid before 09.30 should I want to use it there, but there are exceptions ,such as I can catch the 07.37 from Worcester to London Paddington and Worcester is inside the said area

 

[FenMan]

The wording of the senior railcard conditions seems suitably vague .
"
Conditions of use of the Senior Railcard
4.1. You must be aged 60 years or over to purchase a Senior Railcard.

4.2. Discounts are not available on tickets for travel on morning peak services for journeys that start and end within the London & South East area (defined by the Network Railcard area – network-railcard.co.uk/map) on Monday to Friday (except on public holidays). The time when off-peak services start can vary by station. Use nationalrail.co.uk to plan your journey to identify when off-peak services start or ask rail staff for details.

I live outside the London Southeast area but understood my Senior Card was not valid before 09.30 should I want to use it there, but there are exceptions ,such as I can catch the 07.37 from Worcester to London Paddington and Worcester is inside the said area

To clarify, NRE has been displaying the discounted Senior fares correctly i.e. from the first off peak service, until very recently.

I do not agree that the terms are vague. On the contrary, they are very clear.

 

[swt_passenger]

The wording of the senior railcard conditions seems suitably vague .
"
Conditions of use of the Senior Railcard
4.1. You must be aged 60 years or over to purchase a Senior Railcard.

4.2. Discounts are not available on tickets for travel on morning peak services for journeys that start and end within the London & South East area (defined by the Network Railcard area – network-railcard.co.uk/map) on Monday to Friday (except on public holidays). The time when off-peak services start can vary by station. Use nationalrail.co.uk to plan your journey to identify when off-peak services start or ask rail staff for details.

I live outside the London Southeast area but understood my Senior Card was not valid before 09.30 should I want to use it there, but there are exceptions ,such as I can catch the 07.37 from Worcester to London Paddington and Worcester is inside the said area

The exception is very much the general rule, if considering the whole Network Card area. If your origin is more than roughly half an hour from the relevant London Terminal(s); then offpeak day fares normally become available on the first booked arrival after 1000.

“0930 onwards” is very much an oversimplification.

Absolutely no idea why NRES is getting this wrong though...

 

[JonathanH]

This seems to be working fine in WebTIS. The Senior Railcard discount should be available on all valid fares from the time it becomes available for the off-peak day ticket (eg from the 0916 train)

 

[yorkie]

Which WebTIS? There are loads of website ticket issuing systems (but I assume you mean Atos/Worldline)

Anyway if NRE is displaying unexpected results, any website that uses SilverRail as their fares data provider will display the same result (assuming they have not changed supplier)

Any ticket bought online in conjunction with an itinerary is valid in accordance with that itinerary.

The position is less clear-cut if you buy your ticket without such an itinerary but follow the advice of NRE.

 

[ThisIsSurbiton]

from the first off-peak service on weekdays

What's the first off-peak service?

Is it where there is an off-peak fare with the same route code? Is it off-peak if an off-peak return, but not single, are valid, and you are buying a single? I wonder whether the fares have changed recently in a way that alters what happens at the edge of the peak.

 

[FenMan]

What's the first off-peak service?

Is it where there is an off-peak fare with the same route code? Is it off-peak if an off-peak return, but not single, are valid, and you are buying a single? I wonder whether the fares have changed recently in a way that alters what happens at the edge of the peak.

I was using shorthand, however to be crystal clear, for journeys between originating and destination stations in the Network South East area, the first train in the morning for which an off peak ticket is valid.

Examples from my local station, Blackwater, to:-

08:37 London Waterloo (via Ascot) - Restriction code US
08:42 Guildford - Restriction code W5
09:10 London Paddington (via Reading) - Restriction code P7
09:20 London Waterloo (via Guildford) - Restriction code US
09:34 Reading - Restriction code W1

Obviously a Senior Railcard discount is available for all tickets to all destinations beyond the Network South East boundary whether off peak tickets are valid or otherwise.

 

[ThisIsSurbiton]

I was using shorthand, however to be crystal clear, for journeys between originating and destination stations in the Network South East area, the first train in the morning for which an off peak ticket is valid.

Understood, but my point is that if you are buying an anytime ticket with the discount, what *other* tickets are considered off-peak enough to switch on the discount. In my experience, this is sometimes why a discountis not offered. If you are buying an off-peak, then clearly it should have the discount.

 

[FenMan]

Understood, but my point is that if you are buying an anytime ticket with the discount, what *other* tickets are considered off-peak enough to switch on the discount. In my experience, this is sometimes why a discountis not offered. If you are buying an off-peak, then clearly it should have the discount.

For journeys completely within the Network South East area no discounts are available to Senior Railcard holders on ANY tickets - be they singles, returns, advances, peak, off peak, period, open, day etc - until the first service for which off peak tickets are valid.

I have never seen a Senior Railcard discount offered incorrectly on NRE until recently. That said there are numerous other issues with the fares being displayed (or, more commonly, not displayed) in NRE at the moment, which is clearly due to the current situation.

 

[Paul Kelly]

I wonder whether the fares have changed recently in a way that alters what happens at the edge of the peak.

Hmm, but the problem still shows itself for a journey like Farnborough Main to Harlow Town, which is priced by Greater Anglia and (unlike the SWR-priced flows) has a nice simple fare structure with no confusing weekday and weekend super off-peak day returns etc.: http://www.brfares.com/#!fares?orig=FNB&dest=HWN&rlc=SRN

 

[AM9]

For journeys completely within the Network South East area no discounts are available to Senior Railcard holders on ANY tickets - be they singles, returns, advances, peak, off peak, period, open, day etc - until the first service for which off peak tickets are valid.

I have never seen a Senior Railcard discount offered incorrectly on NRE until recently. That said there are numerous other issues with the fares being displayed (or, more commonly, not displayed) in NRE at the moment, which is clearly due to the current situation.

I did a couple of years ago purchase a ticket from an LM TVM for an outboundary Travelcard with a Senior Railcard discount to travel on a train around 08:45. I didn't realise until I was nearly at Euston. I arrived at Euston at about 09:20 and walked slowly to Euston Square to avoid the LU barriers stopping me entering befor 09:30.