Varied Advice on the Railway...

[Blinkbonny]

So (as the young people say) I'm travelling First Class from Middlesbrough to Coventry. The cheapest way of doing it (courtesy of TrainSplit) is TransPennine Advance to Lancaster, then Virgin Advance to Coventry. It is by no means the quickest option, but I'm a leisure traveller and I enjoy the journey as much as the destination.

TPE are late getting into Manchester Oxford Rd, my first changing-point, and I miss the 14.30 TPE to Lancaster. My undertsanding is that the correct entitlement is to wait for the next TPE (the 15.30) though I check with the Oxford Rd ticket office just to make sure. He urges me to catch the 14.50 Northern Service to Windermere which calls at Lancaster. But I have a TPE Advance I explain, surely I can't just hop on a Northern? Yes, he says, in the event of disruption I am entitled to use any service.

I'm not sure that's right, but I check out the Windermere train. It's a crowded standard class bone-shaker that takes a long time to get there. More to the point, the departure board goes at great lengths to inform me "This is a Penalty Fare Station!"

Obviously I would have enough about me to check with the guard before jumping on, but with my main concern being the pleasure of the journey, I decide that having paid for a First Class ticket then I prefer to wait for next TPE.

I catch the 15.30 but that too is delayed and I arrive in Lancaster with my Virgin train long gone.

No matter I think, an almost identical situation happened to me the other week, when a delayed Northern Service from York got me into Preston too late for my Virgin Southbound. On that occasion the helpful guy at the ticket office printed me off an authorisation for the next Virgin train. I'll just do the same at Lancaster!

Not a bit of it. The Lancaster Booking Clerk tells me that because I have split my tickets I'm going to have to pay again! I politely tell him that I don't think that's right and I'll have a word with the train manager on the next service. I can "Try it on if I want to," he informs me - but the TM will only make me pay again!

Of course by now I'm a bit worried. The walk-up fare is around £100. Luckily I have a booked itinerary through TrainSplit which reassures me that I'm in the right. So I get on the next Virgin, walk the length of the train to find the Guard (I have limited mobility, so it's no joke) and explain the situation, looking for his authority to travel. He's nice enough, but he tells me that because my Advances are for different companies the late running TPE does not entitle me to catch the next Virgin and I should pay again. He personally has no intention of charging me he says, but as he's changing over at Preston he can't vouch for the next guy.

I walk the length of the train back to my seat, arriving just about as we pull into Preston. I really can't face that walk again (and besides the First Class refreshments are about to come round!), so I decide to stay put and wait developments.

After Crewe a ticket check takes place, and with some trepidation I again explain my situation to the Guard. "I have no problem with that whatsoever, my friend," he says. "I hope you saved a lot of money booking it that way, and I'm sure you did."

So there you have it: four different scenarios for the same tickets. As I say, luckily I had my through itinerary from TrainSplit which reassured me somewhat. But what's Joe Public meant to make of that? He'd have risked a Penalty Fare on Northern, and paid through the nose at Lancaster!

You might say that Joe Public wouldn't be travelling on Split tickets, but to be honest you can hardly pick up a tabloid newspaper or watch a consumer advice program these days without being introduced to the wonderful world of split-ticketing, and made to feel like a bit of a mug for not doing it!

To be honest I'm still not sure what was the right advice from the selection that I was given. I journey for pleasure, not for aggravation. That's why I pay extra for First Class. But this whole thing is putting me off further trips that's for sure!

 

[Blinkbonny]

In the unlikely event that anybody has followed all my travails above, the more observant of you might notice that had my second TPE train managed to run to time, I'd have arrived at Preston in time to hop on my original Virgin service south!

Now, I must admit that I'd have been tempted to risk it, as it would have been the most sensible solution all round and would also have saved any claim for Delay Repay. But that would indeed have been breaking the terms and conditions of my tickets and strictly-speaking put me in the wrong! (We all know about the Lancaster/Preston conundrum!)

As it happens, my train pulled in as the Virgin was already standing at a distant platform. I wasn't prepared to risk a mad dash that could have ended with me left in limbo!

 

[yorkie]

Lancaster ticket office need to be dealt with. Please write to Viegin about this.

Also you were on a Virgin train from Lancaster in the direction of Coventry on a ticket valid for Virgin Trains along that line of route and a Virgin TM said you were not entitled to do so? If so that TM needs to be dealt with too.

It is generally the case that you need to stick to the same company as stated in the ticket, however where this would cause excessive delay compared to getting another company, I would expect the rail industry to allow travel on another company .

If you are sticking with the correct company for each leg then you must be allowed to travel at no further cost (and you are entitled to delay compensation as appropriate); anyone who unlawfully claims otherwise needs to be reported so that a disciplinary investigation can take place.

 

[Blinkbonny]

Thanks, yorkie. I think I will take it further, if only for my own peace of mind on further travels.

As for the first TM I'm always inclined to apply the attitude test in reverse. He was coming to the end of his shift, possibly with forms to fill in or whatever, and may have misunderstood my situation. He certainly made it plain that if he'd been staying on the train, he wouldn't be charging me.

Similarly with the ticket-clerk at Oxford Road. It may have been wrong advice, but he was genuinely trying to help and that goes a long way with me.

But as for the clerk at Lancaster, he genuinely seemed to find satisfaction at the prospect of me having to pay again!

 

[yorkie]

Thanks, yorkie. I think I will take it further, if only for my own peace of mind on further travels.

As for the first TM I'm always inclined to apply the attitude test in reverse. He was coming to the end of his shift, possibly with forms to fill in or whatever, and may have misunderstood my situation. He certainly made it plain that if he'd been staying on the train, he wouldn't be charging me.

But the underlying issue needs to be addressed. If you do not want to get him in trouble, be vague about what train it was. Praise his attitude but ask that training be improved so that staff are not mistaken.

Similarly with the ticket-clerk at Oxford Road. It may have been wrong advice, but he was genuinely trying to help and that goes a long way with me.

Agreed. Also in practice Northern would have been fine with you getting on that train. Also was it TPE only or & Connections? If the latter it's fine on Northern anyway

But as for the clerk at Lancaster, he genuinely seemed to find satisfaction at the prospect of me having to pay again!

Yes they need to be dealt with.

 

[Blinkbonny]

Fair play to Trans-Pennine. They've paid me for both tickets without further explanation. Little over a week.

As far as Northern, in a similar scenario, they've paid me the 5 pence for their journey and ignored any further correspondence!

 

[Blinkbonny]

Got a fairly definitive reply from Virgin, which I shall print out and use in any future scenario.

Thanks for getting in touch regarding your recent journeys with us.

I'm sorry to hear of the problems you encountered following a delayed service and missed connection.

After reading your email, I have spoken with our Retail Support Manager to provide some clarity.

I can confirm that you would be able to travel on the next available service with the same Train Operating Company, as long as a delay can be confirmed on your previous leg. This information would be available at the station's ticket office where they can confirm with their Control Office.

I'm sorry again for the problems you encountered and for any confusion caused.

I hope that's answered your query. We look forward to seeing you again on Virgin Trains soon

So their advice would appear to be to go the ticket office and receive confirmation of a delay.

Of course, it might be more useful to inform their staff as well as the customer!