Variety of liveries, what's the point?

[Rod Harrison]

I was in Southport yesterday and a Stagecoach 125 branded gold passed me on the X2 and it promoted me to question why, when you have a recognised, and good, corporate livery, bother with other ones. Stagecoach now have a plethora of liveries. There are gold, hybrid, magicbus, the wave, coastlines etc. etc. Are the customers in parts of the Wirral a better class than this in Merseyside or Manchester and have gold buses? What is the point of magicbuses as they mainly 'compete' with there own company? Sheffield have now started re-painting hybrids into corporate colours and they look far better than the turgid green. Surely it is not only confusing for customers when a gold or magicbus turns up on the wrong route and do they really care? From a company point of view it would surely save money to have one livery when transferring vehicles from one place to another? Go Ahead have local liveries Arriva have other liveries, e.g Sapphire and Yorkshire Tiger. Almost all other firms in the transport sector have a corporate livery. Interested in what people think.

 

[WY Bus Spotter]

Generally companies do it to promote certain routes or have certain buses (eg Stagecoach gold E400s) on the more profitable routes. They try to cater to the needs of the route and to increase ridership, whether that is through free WIFI, USB charging etc... If you look at Transdev at the moment they are branding a lot of their routes, it gives people a sense of ownership and pride in their local bus service, and with the right marketing can encourage non bus users to start using their service.

I can understand your point about buses not being on the correct route but that can be down to a lot of factors like breakdowns for example.

Funnily enough I was on a Stagecoach gold E400 on the X2 yesterday.

 

[90sWereBetter]

First have colour-coded their entire Norwich network over the last couple of years, and the net result has been a huge increase in ridership.

With regard to buses appearing on the wrong route, Norwich have about 45 unbranded buses in the fleet which can be used on any route, which certainly helps with allocations

 

[ANDREW_D_WEBB]

It is a similar situation to supermarket "own brand" products, appealing to different market segments. Many supermarkets now have three own brand ranges, a premium, mid range and budget sector. The Gold brand from Stagecoach is designed to highlight the superior nature of the product inside the bus. Magic is the "pile it high sell it cheap" notion, using the older vehicles in the fleet. From memory it was created in Manchester where the large student population was attractive to a range of competing companies. When first started I think the staff were on lower wages and conditions compared to regular Stagecoach staff.

Brands like the Wave etc are more to raise awareness of wher routes go and when.

 

[GusB]

It is a similar situation to supermarket "own brand" products, appealing to different market segments. Many supermarkets now have three own brand ranges, a premium, mid range and budget sector. The Gold brand from Stagecoach is designed to highlight the superior nature of the product inside the bus. Magic is the "pile it high sell it cheap" notion, using the older vehicles in the fleet. From memory it was created in Manchester where the large student population was attractive to a range of competing companies. When first started I think the staff were on lower wages and conditions compared to regular Stagecoach staff.

Brands like the Wave etc are more to raise awareness of wher routes go and when.

The Magicbus brand was originally introduced in Glasgow in the 1980s and was used on services that competed with those of SBG companies. IIRC, the Glasgow operation was sold on to Kelvin Central, along with a licensing arrangement to use the Magicbus name for a set period of time.

 

[Rod Harrison]

I agree about the original concept of Magicbus which was used in Manchester to use to get student custom and as a cheap competitor to UK buses, Walls etc. and a good way of using older stock. Nowadays Magics use fairly recent buses and appear on all sorts of routes. I don't see there point in future and the cost of painting them into, and sometimes out of, the livery seems pointless. As far as route branding is concerned I think that gas its merits,

 

[Kernow Dave]

I agree what is the point? More so why have a route branding? Especially when most go off route.

For me a corporate livery with clear destination displays.

 

[Busaholic]

London has, perhaps, gone too far the other way with the insistence on all-over red, not allowing the little splashes or touches of other colours that Metroline, for instance, used to discreetly apply. If it's being done so that passengers don't get confused then it's utter hypocrisy to allow phalanxes of TfL-owned Borismasters to be covered top to bottom, including front and rear, in overall adverts at the same time.

 

[PeterC]

Arriva seem to have great difficulty in keeping route branded vehicles on their prescribed routes. On the Wycombe - Chesham route 1 the route branded vehicles seem to have replaced with buses supposedly bound for Reading, Aylesbury or on a Wycombe town service. The up side is that 2 of those are "Max" services so we get a better class of seating.

I haven't used the service much this year but certainly up to last Christmas the route 280 Sapphire vehicles were regularly turning up on other Aylesbury based routes with non Sapphire vehicles running on the 280 at the same time.

 

[MCR247]

To be honest, if buses are straying off of their branded routes regularly that isn't a problem with route branding, that is the operator being lazy and not doing it properly. Nottingham City Transport paint the PVR -1 in the route branded livery, with the remaining bus in the 'spare' livery. This will generally stick to this route (as its needed to make up the PVR) but obviously can stray if things are messed up elsewhere. Generally, the only 'wrong routes' you see are planned (peak/school extras) or are getting Uni branded buses out a bit during the holidays

 

[alex397]

Arriva seem to have great difficulty in keeping route branded vehicles on their prescribed routes. On the Wycombe - Chesham route 1 the route branded vehicles seem to have replaced with buses supposedly bound for Reading, Aylesbury or on a Wycombe town service. The up side is that 2 of those are "Max" services so we get a better class of seating.

I haven't used the service much this year but certainly up to last Christmas the route 280 Sapphire vehicles were regularly turning up on other Aylesbury based routes with non Sapphire vehicles running on the 280 at the same time.

Arriva seem to be the worst when it comes to branded buses on the wrong routes. Even after buses have transferred depot, they often still retain branding. I have regularly seen this in the Harlow area, and also in Kent. In Kent, Sheerness depot has a 'Medway Mainline' branded Enviro200, despite not operating any routes in Medway, and also the Medway Mainline brand has not actually existed for quite a long time.

I think route branding can work really well, when operators get it right. I regularly hear people saying they're about to catch the 'Loop' bus or the 'Triangle' bus in Kent (although it helps that these routes don't have numbers). It can help increase passenger numbers. It works in a similar way to supermarket own brand products, as already mentioned here.
But, it can be completely ruined when branded buses end up on the wrong routes.

 

[Mugby]

Try TrentBarton with a different livery for every service they operate.

Well almost, they've used every colour on the shade card now!

 

[Clip]

Surely it is not only confusing for customers when a gold or magicbus turns up on the wrong route and do they really care? .

the operators or the passengers? I'm pretty sure people just look at the front of the bus to see what number it is and if its theirs rather than care about the colour of the bus

 

[Andyh82]

the operators or the passengers? I'm pretty sure people just look at the front of the bus to see what number it is and if its theirs rather than care about the colour of the bus

Passengers who are already travelling do. Prospective passengers of the future will be attracted by the branding.

 

[overthewater]

Try TrentBarton with a different livery for every service they operate.

Well almost, they've used every colour on the shade card now!

In some part its not worked since its networked has shrinked over the past 15 years. Glasgow has started branding its routes, the first being the Express routes, and No9. Its claimed the No4 to the uni will be next.

 

[busken]

Works well with Reading Buses. Most stops in the town centre serve several routes, and it makes it easy to see when the bus you want is coming.

 

[Sankey Wire]

Warrington Borough Transport has recently introduced route branding for the 20/21 Orford/Longford circulars, now known as “The Pops” (A name traditionally used by drivers, in reference to Poplars Ave).

The problem is not just that the buses inevitably end up all over the place, they feature adverts for specially-reduced fares, which are only available on “The Pops”. This puts drivers in an awkward position when they have to explain why the fare is higher than that plastered all over the bus!

 

[Mikey C]

London has, perhaps, gone too far the other way with the insistence on all-over red, not allowing the little splashes or touches of other colours that Metroline, for instance, used to discreetly apply. If it's being done so that passengers don't get confused then it's utter hypocrisy to allow phalanxes of TfL-owned Borismasters to be covered top to bottom, including front and rear, in overall adverts at the same time.

I used to like the different liveries, especially the toned down versions used before all red came in, as it made it easier to see at a distance what the bus was - I'm sure even non enthusiasts would after a while realise that at a particular stop, the bus on certain routes had say a blue skirt, whereas the buses on the other ones had cowhorns or swirls!

 

[Clip]

Passengers who are already travelling do. Prospective passengers of the future will be attracted by the branding.

Do they? And thus branding works but im guessing as i said most just look at the number on the front and dont care.

Its either a bus in a different livery or no bus at all. Now tell me which one of those choices passengera would prefer.

 

[PeterC]

Do they? And thus branding works but im guessing as i said most just look at the number on the front and dont care.

Its either a bus in a different livery or no bus at all. Now tell me which one of those choices passengera would prefer.

Fine if you can see the front of the bus. Easy to jump on if it is branded for another route from the same stop.

Londoners pay attention to route numbers but my experience in small towns is that passengers have little or no idea of the route number and frequently hail the first bus that comes along and then ask the driver where it is going.

 

[talltim]

A pretty livery isn't going to make me want to catch a bus that doesn't go where I want to go, conversely a crappy livery isn't going to stop me catching it if I goes where I want.

 

[randyrippley]

Blackpool tried route colour branded liveries and gave up because it proved unworkable.

In Lancaster / Morecambe you have the daft situation where buses from the 555 route - both the old green liveried ones, and the new pretty 555 branded replacements routinely run around on the 2/2A causing confusion for the OAPs. They don't look right so they don't get used
For a while it was complicated even further when Stagecoach had a number of rough looking solid-blue painted buses running around....these were near-wrecks from MagicBus that had the yellow vinyls removed. Again, they looked wrong so people didn't get on them - they didn't realise it was the correct bus

 

[61653 HTAFC]

With regard to advertising wraps in London, I've seen tourists (mostly but not exclusively Americans) let buses with ad wraps go because they wanted to ride on a "real" London Bus...

So for regular users in the Central area, more chance of getting on/getting a seat!

 

[D2007wsm]

First West of England have steadily over the last couple of years route branded most of the Bristol network with different coloured fronts, either with the introduction of new or refurbished vehicles.

They have also branded other parts of the network brands in particular anything operating from Wells in Somerset is branded Mendip Explorer and Bristol to Newport in South Wales is the Severn Express. Most recently they are in the process of branding vehicles operating out of Weston-super-Mare depot on the North Somerset network linking Bristol with Clevedon, Nailsea, Portishead and Weston as Excel. These are painted in a striking orange livery, where at first before the branding is applied they look a bit strange, one fully branded they look very smart.

Since the introduction of route branding, ridership has increased as it is easier for a customer to pick out there bus rather than a mass of Barbie or Urban on Bristol City Cente, especially with all of the roadworks which have been ongoing roadworks due to Metrobus and the constant stop changes.

There are still vehicles in unbranded Urban as well as neutral branded vehicles to act as spares. it does happen with branded buses operating on different routes, but this is kept to a minimum. When a vehicle which is route branded is transferred to a different depot, the vinyls are stripped, leaving just the coloured front to be repainted.

 

[radamfi]

Individual route branding reinforces the feeling that the bus company is selling a route rather than a network of routes. Britain (outside London) is probably the world leader in individual bus route branding. Obviously patronage in Britain is very low by international standards. Outside Britain, route branding is uncommon although you might have a brand for a town or city network.

 

[Andyh82]

Works well when the whole company is behind it including those at the front line at the depot allocating the buses.

Where it falls down is when it's just some weak marketing thing that is flavour of the month for five minutes in the main office, is never embraced by operations, the buses are never allocated properly, and then left to just fade away.

Some operators do it well, others do it as if all they are doing is using up some vinyl budget and don't really care.

This can vary from depot to depot even within the same company, for example when First we're doing the Overground, in Leeds they only ever branded a few buses on a few routes and they were always all over the place, down the road in Bradford, all the routes were branded with a full set of buses, and they were almost always allocated correctly.

 

[Pigalle]

Individual route branding reinforces the feeling that the bus company is selling a route rather than a network of routes. Britain (outside London) is probably the world leader in individual bus route branding. Obviously patronage in Britain is very low by international standards. Outside Britain, route branding is uncommon although you might have a brand for a town or city network.

I think this is a point perhaps not understood by bus companies. As a regular user of multiple trent barton routes I am always surprised by how even regular users of their bus services don't understood what routes they run. As a result it is not uncommon for me to see customers buying separate tickets for journeys where a zigzag would be a better purchase e,g, the Mickleover, then transferring onto the Red Arrow. Come to think of it I am always amazed by how many Mickleover customers don't realise that the Villager is also a trent barton service and that the V1 serves a number of identical stops to the Mickleover including the hospital. Of course, the cynic in me says that this failure to tie the network together enhances revenue.

Update - To be fair to Trent Barton, having been out this morning, I notice (and I am obviously not very observant as this has never really registered with me before) that as part of the branding there is a trent barton logo towards the rear of the bus/coach. I saw this on the Allestree, Villager, Sixes and Red Arrow vehicles. The one route's vehicles I couldn't see it on was the Spondon Flyer (although that presumably will change next week) which suggests that this has been a relatively recent innovation as all the buses I have seen it on this morning have been introduced/refurbished since the Spondon Flyer's Versas were introduced.