Vehicle discussion. The SUV vs standard types of car.

[GusB]

My dad had a Peugeot 207 "estate" which was a decent enough car, but as his arthritis got worse he was looking to get something a bit taller to ease getting in and out. The Vauxhall Mokka was one model he looked at, but he eventually settled for a Meriva which was an ex-demonstrator and appears to be of a similar size. In terms of practicality, it's great for moving stuff around and coped quite well when we travelled south for a wedding last year. I'm not sure the Mokka would have been as good in that respect.

I'm not particularly bothered about "street cred" when it comes to cars, and I'd agree that the current crop of "crossovers" is just a fad.

 

[507021]

What no-one has mentioned about the desirability of SUV's, is that they are felt to have good protection in a crash, which people with children value.

That's why I only drive Renaults, as they were the first car manufacturer to get a five star Euro NCAP safety rating, with the Laguna in 2001.

I still have my Laguna, too. Great car.

 

[dgl]

As for the supposed extra space in an SUV, my step mum had a Nissan Juke (eugh) and my sister has a similar age (one year older) facelifted K13 Micra (not her choice admittedly but it was given to her for free so can't complain!) . Now both of these cars are based on the same platform but the Juke is an SUV and the Micra a supermini.
Surprisingly the Micra is roomier and it's much easier to get in the back (the Jukes rear doors are tiny), this is something my step mum and dad have commented on a few times.
Not really a car for tall people though, my uncle who is rather tall had one and didn't fit too well.

Admittedly on the SUV front the Peugeot 3008 they had previously was alright enough (ignoring the iffy trip computer and electronic handbrake), the boot having a split tailgate and height adjustable boot floor made getting things in quite easy, did an average of ~50MPG according to the computer with it's 1.6 diesel and 6 speed semi-auto 'box.

As for cars for tall people that are better for the environment I always thought that was where the Suzuki Wagon R+ and the badge engineered (although with different engines) shines, tall but compact, efficient engines and (at least on the Wagon R+, it's the only model I have had any experience of) typical Suzuki reliability.

 

[507 001]

You pay a lot more for a lot less with an SUV. I absolutely despise them.

 

[Cowley]

You pay a lot more for a lot less with an SUV. I absolutely despise them.

I wouldn’t say I despise them but I’m definitely not too keen on them.
They seem to me to be not much more than a standard hatchback, jacked up with some big alloys and a goofy looking front end added on, with a massive extra price tag attached.
The Nissan Quashqai should actually be named the Nissan Cashcow because they’ve made an absolute fortune out of the things by doing very little work in my opinion.

 

[Nym]

I wouldn’t say I despise them but I’m definitely not too keen on them.
They seem to me to be not much more than a standard hatchback, jacked up with some big alloys and a goofy looking front end added on, with a massive extra price tag attached.
The Nissan Quashqai should actually be named the Nissan Cashcow because they’ve made an absolute fortune out of the things by doing very little work in my opinion.

I can't begin to tell just how much is wrong with that car. My heart sinks whenever Enterprise delivers one of them for me.

 

[cactustwirly]

That's why I only drive Renaults, as they were the first car manufacturer to get a five star Euro NCAP safety rating, with the Laguna in 2001.

I still have my Laguna, too. Great car.

Although Volvo's are world renowned for their safety features, including the first manufacturer to use a 3 point seat belt and the first to have an NCAP 4 star safety rating.
They're much more reliable than renaults as well

 

[GusB]

Although Volvo's are world renowned for their safety features, including the first manufacturer to use a 3 point seat belt and the first to have an NCAP 4 star safety rating.
They're much more reliable than renaults as well

My window cleaner has recently replaced his rather elderly Volvo estate with a slightly less elderly Volvo estate, and that replaced an even more elderly Volvo estate (he had a 200-series for years). Once upon a time a Volvo 2xx was a bit of a status symbol.

 

[507021]

Although Volvo's are world renowned for their safety features, including the first manufacturer to use a 3 point seat belt and the first to have an NCAP 4 star safety rating.
They're much more reliable than renaults as well

I'm not denying Volvo's achievements, but personally, I'd say first five star safety rating is a better achievement than first four star safety rating.

Between my Dad and I, we've had eleven Renaults of various models since 2001, and not one of them ever gave us any trouble whatsoever.

I should also mention my Laguna is 17 years old, and in the five years I've owned it, has never failed an MoT or broken down.

 

[dgl]

I can't begin to tell just how much is wrong with that car. My heart sinks whenever Enterprise delivers one of them for me.

Supposedly the Renault involvement in Nissan has most certinaly got as far as the electrics!, It is said that the French make great cars, then they put the electrics in and Nissan are now right down with the French in the reliability scores.

Though my sisters '14 K13 Nissan Micra (wich she acquired in late 2015) has been very reliable,though I believe that her generation of Micra is pretty much all Nissan with no Renault involvement explaining it's reliability.

 

[LOL The Irony]

I drive the appropriate speed for the corner, I'm saying you can go round corners at 40/50 mph on a NSL road with a car with good handling. That would be nearer 30mph with a SUV

Not necessarily, SUV's are no longer these huge, designed for off-road driving, body on frame vehicles they were 20 years ago. The Range Rover is available with 22 inch rims, and the Range Rover Sport comes in high performance SVR guise. And on another note, BMW's are supposed drivers cars, yet my dad could take corners in his 2.2 DCi Renault Espace faster than any BMW.

They're much more reliable than renaults as well

I'll agree with that (note the engine of that Espace), but at least Renault didn't have a design department shared with IKEA until recently.

 

[507021]

Supposedly the Renault involvement in Nissan has most certinaly got as far as the electrics!, It is said that the French make great cars, then they put the electrics in and Nissan are now right down with the French in the reliability scores.

Though my sisters '14 K13 Nissan Micra (wich she acquired in late 2015) has been very reliable,though I believe that her generation of Micra is pretty much all Nissan with no Renault involvement explaining it's reliability.

That's quite interesting actually, as the K12 and K14 generation of Micra both share the same platform as the Clio. It'd be interesting to know why the K13 didn't.

 

[507021]

I'll agree with that (note the engine of that Espace), but at least Renault didn't have a design department shared with IKEA until recently.

With Renaults, I find it seems to depend on the model. I personally see far more older Clios and Meganes on the road compared to their other models from the late 90s to late 00s, in fact I can't remember the last time I saw an Espace of any generation.

 

[dgl]

That's quite interesting actually, as the K12 and K14 generation of Micra both share the same platform as the Clio. It'd be interesting to know why the K13 didn't.

I might be wrong on that, looking on Wikipedia the platform (B) for the K12 was designed in conjunction with Renault but the K13 and 14 is on the second generation B platform called the V platform and such variant is not currently used by Renault, plus in the UK, at least, the K13 uses an engine not also used by Renault (the 1.2L 3 cylinder HR12DE with 79HP) despite the engine family being co-developed by them and other variants being used in various Renaults as the H engine.

 

[Tetchytyke]

The Nissan Quashqai should actually be named the Nissan Cashcow because they’ve made an absolute fortune out of the things by doing very little work in my opinion.

I've got a 2019 Qashqai and I really like it. I like the higher driving position, it handles well, and I get 40mpg out of it. Capacity wise I got four adults, a baby, four adult suitcases and a stroller in it not so very long ago on a trip to the airport. It swallowed a lot of stuff when we moved over here too. Bikes are no bother either. The higher body makes putting the toddler in and out of the car a lot easier and my mother in law, who is 81 with Parkinsons, finds it easier to get into than the Fiesta.

So far, touch wood, it just feels like a really well built car. They're not cheap, but what I'm paying is less than a similar spec estate such as the Skoda Superb.

My other car is a 2013 Fiesta with the 125ps 1L EcoBoost engine (fantastic engine btw) which gets slightly better mpg (about 45mpg), so I do have the comparison between the two. The Fiesta is more fun to rag along the Mountain Road, yes, but the Qashqai beats it hands down on longer drives.

I know the car mags get their knickers in a twist about SUVs. I do kinda see the point- an SUV is just an estate car on stilts, so you can't throw it around, but that height is also why they are popular.

Of course I'd have got a Civic Type R or a Golf R32 if I didnt have kids though

 

[90019]

Well, I have to agree, there is no valid business case for SUVs beyond image, status anxiety and self esteem. All of which are valid reasons - but no-one ever seems to admit to them, do they?

Not everyone has the same needs in terms of cars, otherwise we'd all be driving around in identical econoboxes, and the roads would be a much duller place.
My mum drives an X1 because it suits her particular circumstances where the equivalent hatchback wouldn't be suitable.
It's mainly to do with my gran, who is unable to get in and out of a lower car (like mine) without a significant struggle. She has the 4wd version because my gran is 2 hours away along roads that usually get snow in the winter and it means she doesn't have to worry so much about getting stuck on the way.

They don't go further off road. They're not better in snow on standard tyres compared to a 2WD car on winter tyres.

This is very much not true - no matter how good your 2wd car is, an equivalent 4wd will get you further in the snow.

They are more consumptive, even in 2WD mode and they won't go round corners.

Also not true. As mentioned above, my mum has an X1 and having spent a bit of time driving it, I can confirm it most definitely will go round corners.

They are items of fad and fashion - no different from pick-up trucks in urban environments.

Some people have jobs, hobbies or other circumstances where a pickup is the vehicle best suited to their needs, even in an urban environment.
Without knowing the details of why they've chosen to buy a certain type of vehicle, who are you to decide whether it's appropriate or not?

My car from 2003, is also a 1.8 petrol VVT. That does 30 mpg on a good run (non motorway driving)
That isn't a Vectra though, something a bit more luxurious and much better to drive.

One of mine from 2001 has a 2.7 non turbo diesel (mated to a 4 speed auto - with overdrive!) which manages a whopping 22mpg around town.

I have a feeling it's probably the opposite end of the spectrum from your car though.

 

[Bletchleyite]

This is very much not true - no matter how good your 2wd car is, an equivalent 4wd will get you further in the snow.

The thing you need to remember about 4WD is that while they "go" more easily in slippery conditions they are no easier to "stop" than a 2WD (as all cars have 4 wheel braking). That's why you see them in ditches when it's snowing.

 

[thejuggler]

A 2wd car with 8mm of tread on winter tyres will go further in snow than a 4wd with 2mm on summer.

I have used my 4wd with mud and snow tyres and plenty of tread to pull a 100k Range Rover, with every button you can imagine to stop it getting stuck, off a muddy field because the Range Rover had summer tyres which were beyond the point of needing replacement.

I will also say 4wd is for more than snow. On those terrible wet slippy road surfaces we get in autumn and winter it is great knowing you can always pull away with no drama whatsoever.

 

[Vespa]

I come from a very practical family, this has rubbed off on me, I tend to buy MPV cars, reliability and space is quite important than poser value.

My current car is a 2005 C Max diesel, it took me to Europe, all over Britain and is regularly serviced proactively, in fact I plan to keep the car for as long as possible, just had new cambelt, disc, springs and lower arm replaced, since it's a known car with no issues, it's worth keeping, I save money per year the longer I have it, I don't need to buy a new car every year just to impress my neighbours, it has the space, higher seat position so I don't need to climb out of it, I even slept in it.

SUV seems to be an impractical posers car, I remember SUVs being described as Chelsea Tractors during the Sloane Ranger era, thing haven't changed much.
Range Rovers are a joke, they break down a lot.

 

[nlogax]

There's a place for most SUVs and it's not really on UK roads. I mostly drive them in the SW US where the gas is cheap, the roads are wide and the corners are visible from a mile away. I wouldn't want to drive around the British countryside in one, although plenty do. 'Getting further in the snow' is less and less of a widespread reason to own one here year by year. Maybe if you live in hilly or mountainous areas, but..in a country where the fuel costs a fortune and the roads aren't really built for them, what's the point?

If AWD is really vital then there are plenty of good small MPVs out there that mean you can comfortably avoid needing to buy a Canyonero.

 

[GRALISTAIR]

SUV - love them but then I live in the USA. They are thirsty and if we truly want to get to net zero carbon in transport there should be a tax penalty for having one. I personally favour a 10 pence per litre excise duty on fuel. If they go hybrid then all the better. I love the USA but to me the most gas guzzling obscenity ever was the Hummer.

 

[ABB125]

SUV - love them but then I live in the USA. They are thirsty and if we truly want to get to net zero carbon in transport there should be a tax penalty for having one. I personally favour a 10 pence per litre excise duty on fuel. If they go hybrid then all the better. I love the USA but to me the most gas guzzling obscenity ever was the Hummer.

I was recently in New York, and had an introduction to American cars. For example, the Chevrolet (?) Suburban: you might expect this to be a small, practical city car, but no, it's bigger than anything I've seen in the UK. And it made up about 50% of the non-taxi car population.

Meanwhile, my dad has a 2011 diesel Skoda Superb, which has enough luggage space for a family camping holiday/taking all the tools and equipment he needs for work to wherever he needs to go if he's not using the work van. It's also brilliant at long distance cruising: need to go up to Glasgow at short notice? jump right in, 55mpg all the way. South of France, stopping only to change drivers/get fuel? no problem. And so on. It's a great car, but he is (was, not so likely at the moment) looking at getting a replacement, and has (I think) just about decided on the new VW e-Passat hybrid thing. More of the same really.

 

[dgl]

SUV - love them but then I live in the USA. They are thirsty and if we truly want to get to net zero carbon in transport there should be a tax penalty for having one. I personally favour a 10 pence per litre excise duty on fuel. If they go hybrid then all the better. I love the USA but to me the most gas guzzling obscenity ever was the Hummer.

Yes the Hummer, one of those vehicles that you expect the fuel consumption to be in GPM! Also a long running south park joke.

As for cars in the snow, the YouTuber/motoring journalist HubNut (Ian Seabrook) had no problems taking a Perodua Nippa out in the snow in mid wales as it had been fitted with winter tyres, it's reckoned that little cars can sometimes be better in the snow as they don't bog down so easily, similar things have been said about little 4x4's such as the Jimny and Panda 4x4.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Yes the Hummer, one of those vehicles that you expect the fuel consumption to be in GPM! Also a long running south park joke.

As for cars in the snow, the YouTuber/motoring journalist HubNut (Ian Seabrook) had no problems taking a Perodua Nippa out in the snow in mid wales as it had been fitted with winter tyres, it's reckoned that little cars can sometimes be better in the snow as they don't bog down so easily, similar things have been said about little 4x4's such as the Jimny and Panda 4x4.

The one thing you don't want in the snow is rear-wheel drive. It's fun laughing at people skidding everywhere in their brand new BMWs then driving past in your old Corsa or something.

Winter tyres do make a big difference and it does surprise me that the UK doesn't require them, we get as much snow as say northern Germany does.

As for the Fiat Panda 4x4, how could an Italian farmer ever need anything else?

 

[Domh245]

There's a place for most SUVs and it's not really on UK roads. I mostly drive them in the SW US where the gas is cheap, the roads are wide and the corners are visible from a mile away. I wouldn't want to drive around the British countryside in one, although plenty do. 'Getting further in the snow' is less and less of a widespread reason to own one here year by year. Maybe if you live in hilly or mountainous areas, but..in a country where the fuel costs a fortune and the roads aren't really built for them, what's the point?

If AWD is really vital then there are plenty of good small MPVs out there that mean you can comfortably avoid needing to buy a Canyonero.

It's worth bearing in mind that most UK SUVs are tiny little things compared to the American options. Ford Europe's largest SUV/Crossover is the Kuga, which is Ford America's second smallest. Most UK SUVs would be called crossovers in the US. Compare an Gen 1 Evoque to a Gen 3 Mondeo (they are both derived from the same Ford platform after all) - Whilst the Evoque is wider over the mirrors by some 12mm, and 13.5cm taller, the Mondeo is longer by about 50cm and doesn't have much less weight (dependant on spec) - a couple of passengers at most

The only vehicles that come close to full on canyonero spec are things like the GLS, X7, Q7 and Range Rover (the car, not the brand) - which are noticeable for not really selling in huge numbers in the UK.

 

[AM9]

I drive a 13-year old Mercedes A-class, (the second version, i.e. not the original one that capsizes when swerving to avoid a moose, and not the current one which is shaped like an astra). It may not have the necessary 'street cred' that some crave, but then I've never regarded a car as a device to feed my ego. It has a 2-litre 108bhp diesel engine but what I really like is it being blendedto a CVT, (continuously variable transmission), aparently a development of the DAF 'rubber band' gearbox. The engine management workd well with both of them and in effect gives sprightly performance yet returns about 45-50mpg in the winter and as high as 55-60mpg on a run in the summer. The gearless transmission gives a driver experience that I imagine is not dissimilar to an EV.
Space wise, it is very flexible, - has a genuine 5-passenger capacity for local and mid-length journeys and 4-up is no problem on faily long runs. The downside is the limited luggage capacity, but it's onlly even carried one or two in those circumstances. With removable seats though, I can get pretty large things in it by putting the rear seats down or dismantling them altogether. I get surprised looks from folks when I arrive at the local tip and stuff keeps getting unloaded from a car that they think is small.
My original reason for choosing it was the sitting-up driving position and the completely flat floor, (i.e. no sills to climb over). I have an unpredictable spinal issue that can make climbing in and out of a low vehicle unnecessarily difficult.

 

[thejuggler]

A few years ago we had an A class of that model (one of the last produced) and also a B class a couple of years older. Both were brilliant, but both suffered expensvie aircon failures at 4 years old.

The B class had more rear legroom than an S class of the same year. We were camping then and took all three of us and the camping kit including a large tent.

 

[AM9]

A few years ago we had an A class of that model (one of the last produced) and also a B class a couple of years older. Both were brilliant, but both suffered expensvie aircon failures at 4 years old.

The B class had more rear legroom than an S class of the same year. We were camping then and took all three of us and the camping kit including a large tent.

I'm hoping that the transmission hold out as a repair/replacement would be more than the car was ever worth, (it was nearly 3 years old when I bought it).

 

[trainmania100]

I must say, the modern motor vehicle is certainly bringing the cost of MOTs up. I struggle to get an MOT and Full Service for less than £300 for my 2013 Ford Focus.
Couple of weeks ago my EFB battery failed and cost me £170 to replace. Probably could have got it cheaper on eBay but it was dead and I needed the car.
My 2006 Kia picanto was considerably cheaper to maintain, even though it was falling to bits. Constantly been failing it's MOTs since I sold it to the dealers.
I get about 500 miles from a full tank on my 2013 ford focus so it's very good for mileage, I recommend it. Nice tourque and acceleration too.

 

[cactustwirly]

I must say, the modern motor vehicle is certainly bringing the cost of MOTs up. I struggle to get an MOT and Full Service for less than £300 for my 2013 Ford Focus.
Couple of weeks ago my EFB battery failed and cost me £170 to replace. Probably could have got it cheaper on eBay but it was dead and I needed the car.
My 2006 Kia picanto was considerably cheaper to maintain, even though it was falling to bits. Constantly been failing it's MOTs since I sold it to the dealers.
I get about 500 miles from a full tank on my 2013 ford focus so it's very good for mileage, I recommend it. Nice tourque and acceleration too.

£300 is about right for an MoT and Service. You could probably get it for £250 with someone like Kwik Fit etc, but do you really want to?
Or you could service it yourself for about £30 worth of parts.