VIA fleet renewal - at last!

[ac6000cw]

The trend (in the US at least) seems to be to specify 125 mph capability, presumably in the hope that one day someone might stump up the money to upgrade the track and signalling to support it...

 

[hexagon789]

As a related matter of interest, what was the maximum the Turbos and LRC locos+cars ran at in regular passenger service? 95 for the former and 100 for the latter?

 

[jamesontheroad]

As a related matter of interest, what was the maximum the Turbos and LRC locos+cars ran at in regular passenger service? 95 for the former and 100 for the latter?

The Sikorsky TurboTrains peaked at 120mph in service. They also looked frickin’ awesome doing it

As built, a set of top and tail LRC locomotives and carriages was designed for 125mph (200km/h), and reached 130mph (210km/h) in tests. Today (IIRC) they are limited to 100mph, less if there is even a single HEP2 in the consist.

 

[hexagon789]

The Sikorsky TurboTrains peaked at 120mph in service. They also looked frickin’ awesome doing it

As built, a set of top and tail LRC locomotives and carriages was designed for 125mph (200km/h), and reached 130mph (210km/h) in tests. Today (IIRC) they are limited to 100mph, less if there is even a single HEP2 in the consist.

I didn't realise the Turbos actually ran at 120 in passenger service, I had assumed that they were limited to 95 but could take corners are higher speeds (say 95 instead of maybe 80 or something).

I knew the LRCs were designed for 125 but what was the maximum they actually ran at in passenger service? Different sources say 95, 100 and 110 mph, I've long wondered which is correct.

Yes, I believe just one non-LRC vehicle limits a train to 95, assuming it's being pulled by a 100 mph loco in the first place.

 

[Ianigsy]

To be a viable transporatation alternative Via needs to expand the service frequencies and improve ontime performance: Of my 10 trips none was on time - delays varied between 10 and 90min.

I was in Canada at the time of the forest fires in British Columbia, so I stopped checking my trains' timekeeping once I saw at Toronto Union that the eastbound Canadian was expected 12 hours late!

 

[ac6000cw]

From what I've read, long delays to the Canadian are common at the moment (and have been for while). CN, on whose tracks it largely runs, is awash with freight traffic and it just gets caught up in the resulting congestion. I'm sure CN would much rather it didn't have to handle it - passengers are very pernickety, perishable 'freight' to deal with...

 

[k-c-p]

Official press release of Transport Canada
https://www.canada.ca/en/transport-...aced-in-the-quebec-city-windsor-corridor.html

 

[hexagon789]

Official press release of Transport Canada
https://www.canada.ca/en/transport-...aced-in-the-quebec-city-windsor-corridor.html

I see it says "high frequency" which is a good thing, the drastic service cuts in 2012 don't seem to yet have been revoked much.

Additionally it mentions replacing "locos and cars" but not which. It provides a bit more info on the requirements but still isn't 100% clear what's going and what's staying in service.

 

[hexagon789]

The new stock will be to directly replace the LRCs.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I was in Canada at the time of the forest fires in British Columbia, so I stopped checking my trains' timekeeping once I saw at Toronto Union that the eastbound Canadian was expected 12 hours late!

To be fair given the Cally's tendency to pick up delays, if you multiplied its journey time by about 8 that isn't really very far wrong!

In any case as it's heavily used by tourists and those with plenty of time on their hands (as flying is way quicker and probably cheaper) it doesn't tend to bother trying to catch up time. If it's due a layover of 3 hours at a given city, say, it takes that whether it's late or not. Which on balance is probably a sensible thing, as people want to get out for a walk around.

 

[hexagon789]

The new stock is to be capable of 100 mph on non-segregated, non-grade separated, unelectrified Class 5 track on diesel power and 125 mph on new dedicated but non-grade separated Class 7 track on either electric or diesel power.

 

[k-c-p]

The process has started: Via has issued the "request for qualifications" for the Corridor fleet renewal

VIA Rail Canada (VIA Rail) has launched phase 1 of its procurement process to select the supplier who will manufacture the rolling stock to replace the current fleet that operates in the Quebec-Windsor Corridor.

The time line is pretty tight: Deadline for RFQ is June 6, 2018. Request for proposal will follow and contracts should be awarded in December 2018.
http://www.viarail.ca/en/about-via-...018-via-rail-launches-rfq-to-replace-its-queb

VIA also awarded contracts for the refurbishment and accessibility upgrades of the existing long-haul fleet (e.g. used on the Canadien). So these 1950s cars will stay in service for quite some time, when VIA spends about 100 million CAN-$ to upgrade them.

VIA Rail Canada (VIA Rail) has awarded a contract valued at $46 million to Cad Railway Industries (Cad) to upgrade 25 train cars intended for use on the long-haul train, the Canadian. Built in the 1950s, these cars will be completely refurbished and transformed to better meet our clients’ present and future needs.
...
The work will include:

• updating the interior design of the cars;
• improving seat comfort;
• installing devices to make the cars Wi-Fi ready for future deployment;
• carrying out a mechanical upgrading;
• renewing the heating systems;
• replacing various electronic/electrical components.

http://www.viarail.ca/en/about-via-...018-via-rail-awards-46-million-contract-to-ca

VIA RailCanada (VIA Rail) has awarded Bombardier a $54 million contract to upgrade 17 train cars. Built in the 1950s, the renovations will be used to transform them into a new generation of fully accessible cars, and will elevate the standards of accessibility in Canada.
...
Each reconfigured car will be equipped with:
- two wheelchair lifts;
- two accessible spaces with anchoring devices;
- announcement display screens, including in the washrooms;
- an accessible washroom.

http://www.viarail.ca/en/about-via-...018-54-million-contract-awarded-to-bombardier

Edit: Updated posts with some quotes and comments to comply with forum rules

 

[Groningen]

I always believed that some (of the current) coaches came from Europe, because some reason they did not enter service here in Europe.

 

[ac6000cw]

VIA bought the redundant (never entered service in Europe) 'Nightstar' coaches, originally intended for international overnight services through the Channel Tunnel. After modifications/rebuilding to suit Canadian conditions, these became the VIA 'Renaissance' fleet - see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Renaissance_(railcar)

 

[Groningen]

Thank you; i was right after all. So those carriages will last some/about 25 years.

 

[hexagon789]

The process has started: Via has issued the "request for qualifications" for the Corridor fleet renewal

The time line is pretty tight: Deadline for RFQ is June 6, 2018. Request for proposal will follow and contracts should be awarded in December 2018.
http://www.viarail.ca/en/about-via-...018-via-rail-launches-rfq-to-replace-its-queb

VIA also awarded contracts for the refurbishment and accessibility upgrades of the existing long-haul fleet (e.g. used on the Canadien). So these 1950s cars will stay in service for quite some time, when VIA spends about 100 million CAN-$ to upgrade them.

http://www.viarail.ca/en/about-via-...018-via-rail-awards-46-million-contract-to-ca


http://www.viarail.ca/en/about-via-...018-54-million-contract-awarded-to-bombardier

Edit: Updated posts with some quotes and comments to comply with forum rules

I must admit I was surprised that the LRC cars were going rather than the HEP2s with some/all LRC cars being cascaded to replace the HEP2s. On the whole I think it is a good thing, VIA is I think in need of investment and hopefully the new stock will encourage more passengers and perhaps improved service frequencies, at least on The Corridor".

Be interesting to see who gets the contract and what they come up with

 

[ac6000cw]

Just an opinion, but I suspect it's going to be a contest between Bombardier and Siemens, with Bombardier being well ahead in the political stakes (it's theirs to lose I think).

 

[hexagon789]

Just an opinion, but I suspect it's going to be a contest between Bombardier and Siemens, with Bombardier being well ahead in the political stakes (it's theirs to lose I think).

Quite, I think Bombardier are definitely the favourites just now.

 

[Shinkansenfan]

Quite, I think Bombardier are definitely the favourites just now.

Bombardier may get the job because they are "local," but due to their inability to fulfill their deliveries on time, they have p***** off TTC, Metrolinx, ION (Waterloo LRT) and have been disqualified from bidding on the latest NYCT subway car order (which went to Kawasaki).

Siemens on the other hand, has delivered on time to Brightline and others, and have taken over the long delayed, ill-fated Midwest/California pool order from Nippon Sharyo.

 

[hexagon789]

Bombardier may get the job because they are "local," but due to their inability to fulfill their deliveries on time, they have p***** off TTC, Metrolinx, ION (Waterloo LRT) and have been disqualified from bidding on the latest NYCT subway car order (which went to Kawasaki).

Siemens on the other hand, has delivered on time to Brightline and others, and have taken over the long delayed, ill-fated Midwest/California pool order from Nippon Sharyo.

Mmm, well I don't really favour either company as such, but it will be interesting to see what they both come up with.

 

[k-c-p]

Via has announced the shortlist for the "request for proposals". These four made the cut (taken from https://www.viarail.ca/en/about-via...018-via-rail-announces-trainset-manufacturers)

• Bombardier Transportation Canada Inc.
• Siemens Canada Limited
• Stadler US Inc.
• Talgo Inc.

Bombardier and Siemens are the usual suspects for such a project, but I was surprised to see Stadler and Talgo on the list. They have until October 5, 2018 to submit their proposals.

 

[hexagon789]

VIA have placed a CA$989 contract with Siemens for 32 bi-directional train sets to replace the LRC stock.

 

[ac6000cw]

From the Siemens press release :

Siemens Mobility has been awarded a €650 million contract in Canada to design and build the next generation of VIA Rail Canada's trainsets. This includes 32 bi-directional trainsets, with a supplemental 15-year service agreement for VIA Rail, Canada's government-owned intercity transportation operator. The new trainsets will service passengers on VIA's busiest route, the Quebec City – Windsor Corridor, which connects Canada's two largest cities, Toronto and Montreal, and spans more than 2,200 kilometers in a northeast-southwest direction. The line carried more than 4.5 million passengers in 2018, representing an increase of more than 30 percent over the past four years. The trainsets will ensure the highest level of safety while also significantly enhancing the passenger experience, with excellent ride quality including more comfortable seats, quieter cars, modern climate control and a high-performance passenger Wi-Fi and digital information system. Delivery of the trainsets will begin in 2021 and passenger service in 2022.

"As we are initiating the gradual withdrawal of the current fleet, the timely delivery of the new fleet will allow VIA Rail to maintain the current levels of service in the Québec-City Windsor Corridor, while significantly improving the quality of its passenger experience. We thank the Government of Canada for their trust in VIA Rail and for this historic investment in its sustainable future," said Yves-Desjardins-Siciliano, President and CEO, VIA Rail Canada.

"We're proud to provide VIA Rail's next generation of trainsets, which will deliver the best travel experience for its riders. Siemens Mobility is committed to delivering intelligent trains that enhance passenger experience, increase value sustainably over their lifecycle and improve availability," said Sabrina Soussan CEO, Siemens Mobility.

The 32 trainsets will be powered by the popular Charger locomotives, one of the most fuel-efficient diesel-electric locomotives in the market today. The passenger cars come with a high level of comfort, air-suspension, state of the art interior design, a full range of modern passenger amenities, the latest in food service equipment and will feature Enhanced Universal Accessibility, offering multiple accommodations for wheelchairs and other mobility devices. The trainsets will be manufactured in Siemens Mobility's North American Manufacturing Headquarters for Rolling Stock located in Sacramento, California. Siemens Mobility aims to include Canadian content of more than 20 percent of supplies and service.

More than 70 Siemens Mobility Charger locomotives are successfully operating across North America transporting passengers and traveling nearly 5 million kilometers per year.

VIA Rail operates on a 12,500-kilometer rail network with 121 stations, 73 locomotives and 428 train cars. It transports more than 4.8 million passengers annually, covering 1.5 billion kilometers.

...so push-pull or top-and-tail 'Charger' diesel powered trainsets, presumably based on the 'Brightline' stock.

 

[hexagon789]

From the Siemens press release :



...so push-pull or top-and-tail 'Charger' diesel powered trainsets, presumably based on the 'Brightline' stock.

The graphics I've seen suggest 3-cars+loco. Seems a bit short unless they are increasing the frequency to compensate.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

About time the Windsor corridor got a facelift to be honest, it’s one of the country’s busiest routes for sure and the current stock is too dated.

 

[Taunton]

Will come as a bit of a surprise to Bombardier. Every part of their business seems to be hitting issues.

For those writing above about the LRC, the locos were finally withdrawn around 2000, although a number had not worked for a good while before. They lasted less than 20 years. They must have been among the last locos built at the good old Montreal Locomotive Works (MLW), who were essentially a Canadian assembler of Alco designs from the USA. Despite the streamlined look, inside the locos was the good old 251 diesel engine, smoke/noise and all, which had been introduced in the late 1950s. They never worked well.

The Turbos, also mentioned above, were likewise built at MLW. They also never worked properly. Never recovered from the grand showpiece inaugural press trip from Montreal to Toronto hit a truck on a level crossing and the front end was smashed right off - which of course became the main photo in the news. This was 50 years ago, there haven't been a lot of advances since, but the service provided nowadays is no faster, and a lot less frequent, than it was then.

I seem to recall that Montreal to Toronto, a bit like London to Edinburgh in distance and through a string of small townships, had getting on for 1,000 level crossings then, many without signals, the others generally half barriers, and although some will have been closed there seems little prospect of running over 100mph along here.

 

[hexagon789]

I seem to recall that Montreal to Toronto, a bit like London to Edinburgh in distance and through a string of small townships, had getting on for 1,000 level crossings then, many without signals, the others generally half barriers, and although some will have been closed there seems little prospect of running over 100mph along here

335 miles IIRC, there was until about 2001 a service each-way timed at 3:59 with one stop at Dorval (~84mph). I believe 95mph is the maximum permitted under Canadian rules on lines with level crossings, the LRC cars are permitted to run at up to 100mph though.

 

[ac6000cw]

A bit off-topic, but Siemens seems to be on a bit of a roll - Amtrak is buying 75 'Charger' diesel locos to replace the P40/P42 diesels on the long-distance trains - https://media.amtrak.com/2018/12/amtrak-to-improve-national-network-with-new-locomotives

Siemens Mobility awarded $850 million contract for 75 new Tier 4 locomotives and associated services
WASHINGTON – With demand for Amtrak service at record levels, Amtrak will acquire new mainline passenger diesel locomotives from Siemens Mobility to replace its aging National Network locomotive fleet. The initial 75 locomotives will be used principally for Amtrak’s Long Distance train service, with options to purchase more, for use on some State Supported routes and for future growth.

“These new locomotives will offer increased reliability, more hauling power, improved safety features and lower emissions,” said Amtrak President & CEO Richard Anderson.

“Siemens Mobility is honored and grateful to Amtrak for this opportunity to assist Amtrak in their mission to provide safe, world-class, environmentally conscious technology for their long-distance services,” said Michael Cahill, president of Siemens Mobility’s North America rolling stock business.

The new locomotives will offer the latest safety systems including Crash Energy Management and Positive Train Control. Capable of speeds up to 125 MPH, the locomotives will have 4,400 horsepower capable 16-cylinder Cummins QSK95 diesel engines with modern control systems and Alternating Current (AC) propulsion. The diesel engine will come equipped with the latest Tier 4 emissions technology, reducing nitrogen oxide by over 89 percent and particulate matter by 95 percent, and provide an average of 10 percent savings in diesel fuel consumption

Delivery of the new locomotives will begin in summer 2021, with passenger service beginning in fall 2021. They will power trains used on the AutoTrain, California Zephyr, Capitol Limited, Cardinal, City of New Orleans, Coast Starlight, Crescent, Empire Builder, Lake Shore Limited, Palmetto, Silver Meteor, Silver Star, Southwest Chief, Sunset Limited and Texas Eagle. All locomotives are expected to be in service by 2024. Maintenance activities across the network will be supported by a supplemental multiyear Technical Support Spares Supply Agreement (TSSSA).

Amtrak is paying for the new locomotives through available funds and will comply withBuy American provisions. They will be built at Siemens Mobility’s rail manufacturing plant in Sacramento, California, a facility which uses solar power and employs more than 1,300 people.

Siemens Mobility has established a robust and diverse base of U.S. suppliers across the country to support the production of its current Charger diesel locomotives, including Cummins, which manufactures its engines in its Seymour, Indiana, facility.

Siemens Mobility’s Charger locomotives are currently operating in several state-supported Amtrak routes in California, Illinois, Wisconsin, Missouri, Michigan, and Washington.

The new locomotives will primarily replace the aging Amtrak P40 and P42 locomotives, some of which have been in service for more than 25 years.

The new locomotives are part of Amtrak’s long-term planned series of improvements for fleet, infrastructure and stations. Other modern equipment includes new Acela trainsets arriving in 2021 and ongoing improvements continue at New York Penn Station and new construction at Moynihan Train Hall, in addition to expanded development of the major stations at Chicago, Washington, D.C., Baltimore and Philadelphia.