Victoria Line Summer Closure

[duncanp]

Travelling on the tube this morning, I saw stickers have been put up on the line diagrams inside the carriages of the Victoria Line, advising of the closure between Seven Sisters and Walthamstow from 8th - 30th August.

Nothing about it on the wonderful Tfl website though, but hopefully there will be later, preferably by 7th August.

 

[transmanche]

Nothing about it on the wonderful Tfl website though, but hopefully there will be later, preferably by 7th August.

https://tfl.gov.uk/info-for/media/p...ks-to-improve-the-victoria-line-over-the-summ - which generated a number of news stories at the time.

https://tfl.gov.uk/cdn/static/cms/documents/track-closures.pdf

(Or www.tfl.gov.uk/tube and click planned closures.)

 

[duncanp]

Thank you for the links, but those links are not obvious, and you wouldn't find them unless you knew about the closure beforehand, and are familiar with the website.

What is needed is something about the closure on the home page of www.tfl.gov.uk, where people can click a link to a page giving details of replacement bus services etc.

I am not moaning about the closure itself, even though I will be directly affected as my daily journey to work is from Walthamstow to Kings Cross. Services on the Victoria Line will ultimately be better after the work is done, especially with the Night Tube service starting in September.

However, if TfL want people to plan holidays round the closure, research alternative routes etc. then the publicity needs to be a little better.

Oh, and let's hope that London Overground can sort out the problems they have had with some of the rolling stock on the Liverpool Street to Chingford line before August.

 

[transmanche]

However, if TfL want people to plan holidays round the closure, research alternative routes etc. then the publicity needs to be a little better.

That's why they got the story in the media (and a thread on here) back in February. Such as the Evening Standard, ITV London, and local papers.

What is needed is something about the closure on the home page of www.tfl.gov.uk, where people can click a link to a page giving details of replacement bus services etc.

And I'm sure there will be, at the appropriate time.

 

[Be3G]

Perhaps there're still some details being worked out, such as the exact frequencies/timings of the rail-replacement buses. (As an aside, I'm still slightly in awe that TfL have had the good sense to run one of them from Chingford Mount.)

 

[Sprinter]

Detailed information about the closures can be found on the TfL website here:

https://tfl.gov.uk/travel-information/improvements-and-projects/victoria-line-travel-advice

 

[duncanp]

Thanks. To say that the London Overground at Blackhorse Road is going to be busy is a bit of an understatement.

Bus 123 to Turnpike Lane and Piccadilly line for me, or N73 all the way to Kings Cross if I can get out of bed early enough.

 

[LLivery]

Thanks. To say that the London Overground at Blackhorse Road is going to be busy is a bit of an understatement.

Bus 123 to Turnpike Lane and Piccadilly line for me, or N73 all the way to Kings Cross if I can get out of bed early enough.

Would have thought most people would head to Tottenham Hale/Walthamstow Central/St James Street instead

 

[duncanp]

Would have thought most people would head to Tottenham Hale/Walthamstow Central/St James Street instead

I agree that most people will head to Tottenham Hale/Walthamstow Central/ St James Street, but I think those routes will be overcrowded, given the number of people who travel on the Victoria Line.

The N73 only takes about 30 minutes from the stop near where I live (three stops before Blackhorse Road) to Kings Cross, so not that much longer than the tube. The route via Turnpike Lane is also not that bad (about 35 minutes) and probably just the same as going via Tottenham Hale/Walthamstow Central/ St James Street.

Just trying to think of a viable route that will not be too busy.

 

[jon0844]

I often travel from Hatfield to Tottenham Hale on a ticket routed via Victoria Line Nth (so not via zone 1).

Will there be an easement to let me go via LST or do I need to take a bus?

 

[greatkingrat]

Liverpool Street may be pushing it. I would expect you to be allowed to go via Hackney Downs.

 

[Daniel]

I often travel from Hatfield to Tottenham Hale on a ticket routed via Victoria Line Nth (so not via zone 1).

Will there be an easement to let me go via LST or do I need to take a bus?

I don't see why that wouldn't be valid via LST with the acceptance in place. Technically the acceptance is LST-TOM, it doesn't specifically mention Hackney Downs, so don't quite know that would be suggested as an alternative!

 

[transmanche]

I often travel from Hatfield to Tottenham Hale on a ticket routed via Victoria Line Nth (so not via zone 1).

Will there be an easement to let me go via LST or do I need to take a bus?

Even with the reduced Victoria line service, I'd have thought it would be quicker to go to Seven Sisters and take a bus, rather than going via Liverpool Street (or even via Highbury & Islington-Hackney Central-Hackney Downs-Seven Sisters).

Unfortunately as you won't be using Oyster you'll have to stick to using Replacement Bus A between Seven Sisters and Tottenham Hale. (Oyster users exiting Seven Sisters can also use buses 41/76/W4 for free.)

This is all assuming that your ultimate destination is Tottenham Hale. If continuing on to, say, Stansted Airport with luggage, I can see why travelling via Liverpool Street might look a more attractive proposition.

 

[jon0844]

I know it would be quicker to go via Seven Sisters and take a bus, but it's that bit more unpredictable - meaning I could miss my train at TOM and end up hanging about, and likewise coming back, miss a service to Hatfield.

It may even be quicker to just take a slow train to Cheshunt (my ultimate destination) during the blockade, but it's not always about the quickest route - as if I go via KGX and LST, I have the opportunity to get some lunch at LST and eat it on the train (there's sod all worth buying at Tottenham Hale or Cheshunt).

I don't do this now as it's more expensive, although not actually by a huge amount.

Maybe using LO from Seven Sisters will be the answer, and it's only for a few weeks.

 

[transmanche]

I know it would be quicker to go via Seven Sisters and take a bus, but it's that bit more unpredictable - meaning I could miss my train at TOM and end up hanging about, and likewise coming back, miss a service to Hatfield.

If it helps, it's just a 3/4 mile walk between Seven Sisters and Tottenham Hale; say 15 mins at moderate pace.

 

[Kristofferson]

So, more interestingly, what are they doing to increase frequency? A move to moving-block ATO, or something less dramatic?

 

[Daniel]

So, more interestingly, what are they doing to increase frequency? A move to moving-block ATO, or something less dramatic?

Replacing a crossover.

 

[Nym]

The ATP and ATO will stay as is, the Westinghouse DTG-R system, as it's properly designed, has a significantly better performance than the 'moving block' systems like TBTC (Actel S40)...

Usually because moving block systems encourage lazy design(!)...

 

[plcd1]

It is worth noting that TfL are refining the exact arrangements for the blockade and replacement services.

Some interesting issues have now emerged.

- RRS buses will be using Walthamstow Central car park. This means NO pedestrian access via the new quick link to Queens Rd station. People will need to trek round via the side streets which takes at least twice as long as using Ray Dudley Way.

- AM peak departures from Chingford, Highams Park and Wood St will run 2 minutes earlier.

- AM peak departures from Enfield and Bush Hill Park will run 1 min earlier.

- AGA semi fast AM peak trains will NOT call at Edmonton Green

- NO TRAINS will call at Clapton prior to 0930 daily. The TfL info does not (yet) distinguish M-F from weekends. No comment yet whether any AGA trains will call at Clapton instead.

- St James St Station is EXIT ONLY from SOT to 0930 daily. Again no distinction between MF and weekends in the info.

- Only RRS A runs at weekends (Walthamstow C - Seven Sisters). No services to Stratford nor the 558 temporary bus.


Looks like the arrangements are descending into a panic driven chaos. Further updates to the info are promised but local politicians are not aware of the St James St / Clapton issues and I suspect most passengers are not aware either! :-x

 

[duncanp]

The effective closure of St James Street and Clapton stations in the morning is going to seriously p**s off a lot of people.

I suppose you could understand the logic behind it, but it seems this is a very last minute decision. You should be able to stop some extra trains from the Lea Valley line at Clapton to compensate.

Another thing TfL are being very coy about is exactly how much the service on the remainder of the line is going to be reduced by. 10%, 20%, 40%????? Perhaps they don't want people to know.

I can imagine what the queues for the northbound replacement buses at Seven Sisters are going to be like.

 

[class303]

The effective closure of St James Street and Clapton stations in the morning is going to seriously p**s off a lot of people.

I suppose you could understand the logic behind it, but it seems this is a very last minute decision. You should be able to stop some extra trains from the Lea Valley line at Clapton to compensate.

Another thing TfL are being very coy about is exactly how much the service on the remainder of the line is going to be reduced by. 10%, 20%, 40%????? Perhaps they don't want people to know.

I can imagine what the queues for the northbound replacement buses at Seven Sisters are going to be like.

I can understand the St James street decision as it's walking distance to Walthamstow Central & not that much of a detour for passengers.

Clapton does seen short notice, and surprising. Perhaps it was absolute chaos there during the recent tube strike and makes more sense to get Clapton passengers to hackney downs with the much greater number of hourly services?

As a Walthamstow resident it's certainly going to be an interesting month!

 

[duncanp]

I tried my alternative route to work this morning.

Bus 123 to Turnpike Line and then the Piccadilly Line (to Kings Cross)

Only about 10 minutes longer than normal, although that was at 6am.

At Clapton, you should be able to stop some trains (eg from Hertford East or Bishops Stortford) to compensate.

 

[Be3G]

St James St Station is EXIT ONLY from SOT to 0930 daily. Again no distinction between MF and weekends in the info.

RRS B will be stopping near St James Street to help with this. No idea what Clapton residents are supposed to do though.

 

[plcd1]

RRS B will be stopping near St James Street to help with this. No idea what Clapton residents are supposed to do though.

Catch a bus!

TfL have further updated the info for the blockade with location specific leaflets that can be downloaded plus info on where the RRS will stop.

Seems there will be peak extra buses on the 97 and 158 - that's new. The info for Clapton is catch a bus and change on to the Overground elsewhere like Dalston but NOT Hackney Downs! Nothing about what you do if you have a point to point season from Clapton to Liv St - is that valid on the bus?

TfL are also denying the existence of the RRS at T Hale for journeys to Seven Sisters preferring to push people on to the 41, 76 and W4 bus routes. Of course you get charged to use those routes and only get a refund if you change to the tube at SS within a short time window.

Still think this is going to be a massive cock up - especially the no peak trains at Clapton issue. You can't even alight before 0930 on trains *from* Liverpool St. You have to get off at Hackney Downs and catch a 56 bus but no refunds for doing so!

 

[duncanp]

TfL are saying that trains are expected to be full on departure from Walthamstow Central, so people would be unable to board at St James Street or Clapton. If that is the case, then some people will be unable to board at Walthamstow Central as well.

The advice for people at St James street is to catch a bus (either the replacement bus or the 58 or 158) to Leyton. But then it says that Leyton will be very busy, so please seek alternative routes!

The latest advice says that SOUTHBOUND trains will not stop at Clapton before 09:30. So you could go Clapton - Walthamstow and cross to the opposite platform. But looking at the map, Clapton is quite close to Rectory Road station (about 15 minutes walk) so I suspect a lot of people will go there instead.

I would still like to know how much of a reduction in service there is going to be on the rest of the Victoria Line, but I suspect that there is more chance of Boris Johnson becoming the new leader of the Labour party than us finding that out.

 

[Mojo]

Peak trains will run every 2¼ Min instead of every 1¾-2 Min. Off peak trains will run every 2½ Min instead of every 2¼ Min, except for early and late trains which will run at 4 Min intervals.

 

[duncanp]

Thank you.

I make that a reduction in peak time trains from about 32 trains per hour to 26 trains per hour, or just under 20%.

That is quite a significant reduction given how busy the Victoria Line is at peak times.

 

[MikeWh]

Does anyone know what happens if the tube goes on strike? Will the extra buses still operate? If not, will the stops at Clapton and St James Street be restored?

 

[A0wen]

I know it would be quicker to go via Seven Sisters and take a bus, but it's that bit more unpredictable - meaning I could miss my train at TOM and end up hanging about, and likewise coming back, miss a service to Hatfield.

It may even be quicker to just take a slow train to Cheshunt (my ultimate destination) during the blockade, but it's not always about the quickest route - as if I go via KGX and LST, I have the opportunity to get some lunch at LST and eat it on the train (there's sod all worth buying at Tottenham Hale or Cheshunt).

I don't do this now as it's more expensive, although not actually by a huge amount.

Maybe using LO from Seven Sisters will be the answer, and it's only for a few weeks.

If you're aiming for Cheshunt, surely from Hatfield it would be quicker still to take the 724 to Ware or 641 to Broxbourne and then get the train from there?

 

[Deerfold]

Peak trains will run every 2¼ Min instead of every 1¾-2 Min. Off peak trains will run every 2½ Min instead of every 2¼ Min, except for early and late trains which will run at 4 Min intervals.

Although that's not actually what the staff brieflng said last time I looked at it.