Violent thug doesn’t get jail for assaulting staff

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Justapunter, 9 Jul 2019.

  1. Justapunter

    Justapunter Member

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    http://media.btp.police.uk/r/16564/violent_fare_dodger_sentenced_after_assaulting_tf
    but how on earth can this piece of vermin not get real prison time for being caught on CCTV behaving like this.

    Fare dodging then launching an attack on staff that has left them with life changing injuries. What on Earth is the point in the TFL rent a quote saying it shows violence against staff isn’t tolerated.

    The sentence is pathetic. It should be 3-5 years. Where is the deterrent to others? I hope the union will stand up and try to have a right go at TfL and the authorities here. Say fund an appeal for a stronger sentence. Support their member in a way that shows other people jet they’re fighting (!) for their staff. Some poor TfL staff just went to work. And this POS has basically got away with ruining their life.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: 9 Jul 2019
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  3. broadgage

    broadgage Established Member

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    I agree.
    The sentence does seem ridiculously lenient.
    Not certain that having a go at TfL will help ? This looks to me like a failure by the court to impose a stiffer sentence, rather than any failing of the victims employer.
     
  4. LewFinnis

    LewFinnis Member

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    Possibly one of those cases where the victim can ask the Attorney-General to appeal against the sentence?
     
  5. Justapunter

    Justapunter Member

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    I am surprised TfL are using it as an example showing that violence will not be tolerated. I am surprised it doesn’t say a conviction is good, but the sentence isn’t good enough. And that TFL will do its utmost to ensure the most serious penalties for people who abuse and assault its valued staff.

    In other word, I am surprised that they are relatively promoting this one as “justice”. It clearly isn’t.
     
  6. Elecman

    Elecman Established Member

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    o

    Afaik anyone can ask for a perceived unduly lenient sentence to be reviewed
     
  7. Pluto

    Pluto On Moderation

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    He might have preferred a prison sentence to the 150 hours community service and the £750 he's got to fork out?
     
  8. Justapunter

    Justapunter Member

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    Right, but what deterrence is that when he’s likely to argue he pays a fine st a fiver a month. Then doesn’t pay. The hope, and sadly we are likely to be paying for it, is there is decent criminal injuries compensation for this TfL staffer.
     
  9. Robertj21a

    Robertj21a Established Member

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    While I generally agree with your comments, it's important to note that the injuries were *not* life threatening as you indicated.

    I totally agree with others that the sentence seems unduly lenient.
     
  10. jamesst

    jamesst Member

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    And they wonder why rail staff don't bother reporting incidents to btp...
     
  11. cactustwirly

    cactustwirly Established Member

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    But he was convicted of Grevious bodily harm, the injuries would have been pretty serious
     
  12. Robertj21a

    Robertj21a Established Member

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    It does specify 'serious injuries to the elbow and arm' - so can certainly be categorised as grevious bodily harm.

    My point was simply that there is no reference at all to 'life threatening'.
     
  13. AM9

    AM9 Established Member

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    Grevious bodily harm means that the skin was broken, that's all, (ABH means a bruising type of injury).
    So GBH could just be a minor cut or stress split.
     
    Last edited: 9 Jul 2019
  14. Darandio

    Darandio Established Member

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    There was no reference to it in this thread until you introduced it. Unless it was edited out of the OP by that moderator intervention?
     
  15. al78

    al78 Established Member

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    Surely the issue is with the court and judge, not the btp.

    It seems irrational not to report assault. If it is reported, there is a non-zero chance the perpetrator will be caught and punished appropriately. If it is not reported, there is zero chance of the perpetrator being caught and punished. A non-zero chance of nailing the perpetrator with justice is better than zero chance of it happening.
     
  16. 30907

    30907 Established Member

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    A suspended sentence is conditional on good behaviour, I thought?

    BTW the maximum sentence for GBH is 5 years.
     
  17. cactustwirly

    cactustwirly Established Member

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    Are you sure about that?
    It's 7 years, for a section 20, but section 18 (GBH with intent, with or without a weapon) carries a life sentence
     
  18. Gerald Fiennes

    Gerald Fiennes Member

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    Certainly too light a sentence but also worth noting just how prevalent tail-gating is on LUL. There's not much visible enforcement; after this sentence, there will surely be even less... Perhaps LUL could retime the gates so that they close more quickly?
     
  19. maire23

    maire23 Member

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    When I studied Law GBH meant something serious like a broken bone (admittedly this was 20 years ago at A Level) And my previous nursing career tells me that an injury requiring multiple hospital appointments and surgery as it has is not a minor cut! Sounds to me like a complex fracture which I imagine isn’t too difficult when someone is pushed with force, especially backwards and then falls on their arm. I imagine pins or some degree of metalwork was involved- that’s pretty serious.
     
  20. Kneedown

    Kneedown Established Member

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    The OP referred to "life CHANGING" injuries, not life threatening. I would be of the opinion that injuries resulting in 40+ hospital appointments could well be regarded as life changing.
     
  21. Bald Rick

    Bald Rick Established Member

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    Whilst I don’t know about the case specifics, it appears the judge has followed the sentencing guidelines. For example, the attack was not premeditated, and no weapon was involved, it was a single ‘push’ (or blow) and one assumes the offender had no intention of causing serious injury (or, at least, his lawyer would have argued that). These are all factors which reduce the aggravating factors and culpability. Further, if the offender had no previous, and showed remorse during the trial, then it appears that the sentence is correct as per the guidelines.

    https://www.sentencingcouncil.org.u...-religiously-aggravated-gbhunlawful-wounding/

    (Too much to paste in).
     
  22. AM9

    AM9 Established Member

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    That will disappoint the 'hanging's too good for them' brigade.
     
  23. Bald Rick

    Bald Rick Established Member

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    Quite.

    I’m not voicing an opinion on whether the sentencing guidelines are too lenient, or not, but there’s no doubt in my mind that the judge has followed them correctly.
     
  24. Pluto

    Pluto On Moderation

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    I think you've summed it up very well, it may well have been a split second reaction which he subsequently regrets and it's not as if he's got off scot free. He has a suspended sentence hanging over him, community service to do and a considerable amount of compensation to pay.
     
  25. DarloRich

    DarloRich Veteran Member

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    Plus you also need to see a transcript of the summing up by the judge to determine if the sentance is correct. This is rarely reported.
     
  26. Robertj21a

    Robertj21a Established Member

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    Deleted
     
  27. Justapunter

    Justapunter Member

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    He pleaded not guilty.
     
  28. AlterEgo

    AlterEgo Veteran Member

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    A shame I had to get to post 20 to find someone speaking a little sense.

    The man tailgated and pushed the member of staff over, then picked up his bag and left.

    You don't go to prison for that.

    I hope the member of staff makes a full recovery - they seem very unfortunate to have picked up such a serious injury from simply being pushed to the ground.
     
  29. Pluto

    Pluto On Moderation

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    As he's entitled to do.
     
  30. Bromley boy

    Bromley boy Established Member

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    From the guidance:

    So the judge has concluded that a custodial sentence is merited in this case, but has chosen to suspend it for other reasons (which none of us know enough to comment on without reading the transcript).

    More generally, there does seem to be an increasing disconnect between what the justice system thinks should happen to those who walk around dishing out violence with impunity, and what the public thinks should happen to them.

    I’m not at all sure that’s a good thing.
     
  31. matt_world2004

    matt_world2004 Established Member

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    TfL and the victim should push for civil restitution as well. TfL for the costs of finding cover for the injured employee while off work sick and the victim for expenses caused by their injury and damages.
     

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