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Violent York thug is locked up (but not for very long)

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yorkie

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http://www.yorkpress.co.uk/news/10426581.Violent_teen_is_locked_up/?ref=mr
Callum Thomas Tooley named after judge lifts reporting restriction

A TEENAGER who damaged a man’s kidney with a knife and started an attack that put a younger boy in a coma for three weeks has been locked up.

York’s top judge told Callum Thomas Tooley to change his violent ways or face years in jail.

The stabbing in which Tooley injured Tyrone Savory in Clifton on February 27 was the latest in a series of violent outbursts.

The 17-year-old has been before the crown court for three separate crimes as well as the youth courts.

Eighteen months ago, aged 16, he started the attack on Knavesmire that left a 15-year-old in a medically induced coma for some days.

Under-18s cannot usually be named in court proceedings but The Press is able to name Tooley today after a judge lifted reporting restrictions at the newspaper’s request, on the grounds the public needed to know who he is.

The Recorder of York, Judge Stephen Ashurst, said Mr Savory was “extremely lucky” he had not been more seriously injured.

The judge gave him a 20-month detention and training order. Because of his age, the maximum sentence for Tooley’s latest crimes was two years minus a discount for pleading guilty.

He was given a four-month detention and training order for the Knavesmire attack.

Mr Savory suffered two stab wounds, one of which pierced his kidney. He was discharged from York Hospital after two days and has not returned for follow-up appointments.

• Damien Dickinson, 20, of Lindsey Avenue, Acomb, received a 12-month sentence after admitting causing grievous bodily harm by breaking the 15-year-old boy’s skull in the attack on Knavesmire.
Our legal system/framework/laws (whatever) is/are absolutely pathetic. As far as I am concerned he attempted to murder a 15 year old boy, who was not expected to live and did very well to pull through (many people were fearing the worst) and our ludicrous legal system only gives him a 4 month detention order and was - shockingly - given the right to be anonymous! So, of course, he attacks someone else in a very violent way, and only gets another 20 months detention order!

I don't care what any of the people who defend our legal system say, it's pathetic and disgusting, and I hope one day true justice is served on this individual - but I doubt our legal system can ever provide that.<(

It makes my blood boil, it really does. How can anyone defend this absolute scumbag and how can the system let all his victims down?

Update: since I wrote this, he has continued the cycle of attacking people; the sentences he is given out are very short and do not properly protect society and ensure that he has free roam to carry out further attacks in future; see https://www.yorkpress.co.uk/news/15070236.callum-tooley-jailed-for-street-attack-in-york/

4th February 2017

A THUG has been jailed for two years and seven months for a vicious attack on a brother and sister in York city centre.

Callum Tooley, 21, and his girlfriend Mollie Kilby, 20, punched and kicked Christian Pratt as he lay on the ground...
Sadly, there will be many more victims to come :(
 
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bb21

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We don't need pathetic sentences like these. Sentence him to 100 lashes and let's see if he reoffends. :roll:
 

DarloRich

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http://www.yorkpress.co.uk/news/10426581.Violent_teen_is_locked_up/?ref=mr
Our legal system/framework/laws (whatever) is/are absolutely pathetic. As far as I am concerned he attempted to murder a 15 year old boy, who was not expected to live and did very well to pull through (many people were fearing the worst) and our ludicrous legal system only gives him a 4 month detention order and was - shockingly - given the right to be anonymous! So, of course, he attacks someone else in a very violent way, and only gets another 20 months detention order!

I don't care what any of the people who defend our legal system say, it's pathetic and disgusting, and I hope one day true justice is served on this individual - but I doubt our legal system can ever provide that.<(

It makes my blood boil, it really does. How can anyone defend this absolute scumbag and how can the system let all his victims down?

he is a juvenile - he will have been judged under the youth system. But lets not let the facts or any understanding of the justice system get in the way of a good old rant.

birch him i say
 

DarloRich

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The jusitce system is a disgrace, I would hang him no questions, bring back the death penalty.

thanks for that well reasoned input to the debate. It must be wonderful to have such a black and white view of the world. Thankfully we still live in a slightly civilised country though I am sure your way would be much better, especially when you make a mistake.

I do wish people would at least try and understand how the legal and judicial system works. THEN we can try and change it.
 

SS4

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The jusitce system is a disgrace, I would hang him no questions, bring back the death penalty.

Would you have hanged the Birmingham Six?

I'm not sure what to go with on this, clearly he deserves a stronger punishment but at the same time we can't make an example of him or give special treatment of any kind because we're all equal under the law. What I'm trying to say is that we can increase sentences (but where do we put them?) but we should tread very carefully and not allow sensationalist articles to sway the judiciary via Westminster (or Brussels if you believe UKIP). Plus we need only look across the pond to see that simply locking people up doesn't always work
 
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DarloRich

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Don't get me wrong i think the sentence is terribly low for what is presented as an awful violent crime. However he was clearly sentenced to the maximum tariff available under the "youth" rules, less the discount for pleading guilty.

The youth system places a lot of emphasis on rehabilitation and training , which is surely a good thing and forms the second, often forgotten, leg of the criminal justice system.

Is it right to try minors under adult rules? When does it become ok? Should we just move from an age of criminal responsibility straight into one justice system with the same sentences?
 

yorkie

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I don't agree with the death penalty and I didn't really envisage this thread becoming a debate on that.

The justice system does not always get the right person, sadly, though in this case there is no doubt as to who the tool is, and it was disgraceful that his identity was protected after the first time he tried (and very nearly succeeded) to kill someone. That lad was in a coma for a month and took about a year to recover from what was described as a miracle recovery, and had many people fearing the worst.

I knew the tool would go on to try to kill someone else, and he did indeed try. Sadly, I also know he is going to do the same, sooner or later, again when he gets out, which won't be very long at all! My thoughts are with both past and future victims, I hope whoever is next is not too badly injured and traumatised.

I don't have the answers but I do know this is a disgrace.
 

DarloRich

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You obviously know him.

What do you suggest happens to minors brought before the court? I wonder what sentence he would get next year.
 

RailProfileUK

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I do see alot of things in black and white as long as there is sufficent evidence there. Just look it the papers everyday or watch the news "Lad with 30+ charges, re offends and this time kills 86 year old women" for example, one of a 100 I could mention. Let's pop them in prision (at the cost of the taxpayer of course) for 8 years, half that and then take off a year for good behaviour so they'll be out in a year to mug your gran, rape your daughter etc etc... I wouldn't think twice about hanging them the world would be a better place without them.

I have had my fare share of runnings with these sorts of people, my 96 year old gran was beat up and robbed on the way to her local shops, I have had a machette held to my throat for a 2.5k mountain bike, and held at gun point when leaving my house for work one night. So from my previous experience I know first hand what people can be like and yes I would hang the lot of them.

I also know what it's like to make a mistake, at the age of 19 I was on trial for... well i'm not going to broadcast it on here. I was in a pub one night drinking cans of coke with my ex partner when two older men full of drink started trouble with me because they wanted my mrs to "get her boobs out", I stood my ground and got the better of one of them and nearly killed him. I went to trial for it and to be told by the judge if I had of been drinking on the occasion I would have got off with it scot free, but because I was the sensible one not drinking (drinking doesn't really appeal to me) and being fully aware of my actions I was given a healty fine, compensation order and the maximum community order of 280 unpaid work, if I had of had any convictions previous I would have been sent to prision. So I have no faith in the justice system, 8 years on and I have never had any dealings with the police through my own fault.

There's always going to be the innocent people who get locked up for something they haven't done. I am talking true sufficent evidence, dna, cctv footage etc... remember the bombings of the Birmingham 6 took place about 37 years ago, forensics has come along way since then and fewer and fewer people are getting locked up for crimes they haven't done.

I don't agree with the death penalty and I didn't really envisage this thread becoming a debate on that.

The justice system does not always get the right person, sadly, though in this case there is no doubt as to who the tool is, and it was disgraceful that his identity was protected after the first time he tried (and very nearly succeeded) to kill someone. That lad was in a coma for a month and took about a year to recover from what was described as a miracle recovery, and had many people fearing the worst.

I knew the tool would go on to try to kill someone else, and he did indeed try. Sadly, I also know he is going to do the same, sooner or later, again when he gets out, which won't be very long at all! My thoughts are with both past and future victims, I hope whoever is next is not too badly injured and traumatised.

I don't have the answers but I do know this is a disgrace.

Exactly there wouldn't be a next time if he was delt with properly, I don't mean anything personal to you there Yorkie.
 
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DarloRich

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It must be wonderful to live in such a simple world. I assume you would take the same line if you found yourself before the court for a crime you didn't commit or if you did something awful in the heat of the moment?

What crimes deserve the death penalty? Here you have advocated it for beating someone up. Where do you draw the line? Should all criminals just be killed without any chance of rehabilitation?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Infact sod it, why not just move to immediate mob rule. It would save all that money if decent folk like you and me could just execute scum bags on sight.
 

transmanche

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The death penalty won't be coming back. Mrs Thatcher (of all people) signed that away in a treaty in the 1980s.

And for those who still favour the death penalty, have a look at 'Ian Hislop explaining capital punishment to an idiot'.

[youtube]Es9XrKTTc_4[/youtube]

Edit: I have now sussed how to embed a YouTube video... :)
 
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RailProfileUK

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We're all entitled to our own opinion obviously but untill you are faced with it yourself (possibly you have been?) you can't say what you would do to those type of people.

You come home from work, your partner or your son/daughter has been murdered and there is sufficent evidence to convict their killer i'm talking wepon, dna and a witness. What would you like to happen to them?

There has to be some sort of evidence if there are 100's of killers behind bars at the moment surely? Or should we let them all out because its all unsufficent.

It would also be a good deterent if the death sentance was brought back, or I think I would be happy if prisons were alot tougher, a bed, a toilet, and a 10ft x 10ft cell (oh we can't do that because of human rights, even though they've abused other peoples). Non of this x box and tv crap. It costs us the tax payer around 30k a year to keep a prisoner locked up, some people don't even get that a year in pay so why should they get it spent on them?
 

DarloRich

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I would want the person responsible locked away for the rest of their natural life in a harsh regime and to be confronted with the enormity of their crime on a daily basis. That is obviously when i have got beyond the natural urge to kill them myself.

Whilst we are non the subject of what if let me put some your way.

You go for a night out with your wife, someone starts making comments about her, you ask them to stop but they dont, one tries to touch her inappropriately and you snap, hitting him, he falls, bashes his head on the floor and dies. Death penalty?

or

you go for a night out, you have been drinking, an argument starts, you are attacked and in defending yourself you badly injure someone, perhaps with the pint glass in your hand. Death penalty?

or

You are driving your car and you crash causing injures and death. it was an accident but you were on your phone. Death penalty?

This is why i dont think things are black and white.
 

RailProfileUK

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I'm trying to think how to word this, in these cases your right people don't deserve the death penalty I could have been one of them. I know my first post I might of came across that way and when faced with cases like little scumbags doing bad things to people thats when I see black and white so get rid of them. Over the whole area there are shades of grey but if we look at just the area of these repeat offenders who go on to kill people I would quite happily hang this type of person not everyone who kills someone.

I think we are reading from the same book here only I didn't come across correct in the first place. Apologies.
 
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radamfi

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The death penalty is unacceptable primarily because of the problem of making a mistake. But I think a sentence of 50 years isn't unreasonable for someone over 16 committing a serious violent crime of this nature or worse and isn't the first offence.
 

DarloRich

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I'm trying to think how to word this, in these cases your right people don't deserve the death penalty I could have been one of them. I know my first post I might of came across that way and when faced with cases like little scumbags doing bad things to people thats when I see black and white so get rid of them. Over the whole area there are shades of grey but if we look at just the area of these repeat offenders who go on to kill people I would quite happily hang this type of person not everyone who kills someone.

I think we are reading from the same book here only I didn't come across correct in the first place. Apologies.

you shouldn't apologise at all. Everyone has a valid opinion and just because i disagree doesn't make it less valid. You would be well entitled to think pinko leftie bleeding heart liberal with regard to my views! I also dont disagree that the base emotion is always the strongest.

I think they should be locked away in a harsh environment and do the time they are sentenced to. Whilst there they need to be "worked on" to try and make then better people and turn them away from a life of crime.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
The death penalty is unacceptable primarily because of the problem of making a mistake. But I think a sentence of 50 years isn't unreasonable for someone over 16 committing a serious violent crime of this nature or worse and isn't the first offence.

Surely there has to be an opportunity to be rehabilitated back into society otherwise prison merely becomes punishment. Rehabilitation is a key part of the system, just one that is overlooked.
 

RailProfileUK

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That wouldn't be so bad if we didn't have to pay the 30k (give or take) per year to keep them locked up. It would have cost the tax payer 1.5 million to keep them locked up for 50 years at 30k per yer but remember there would be inflation as well.
 

radamfi

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Surely there has to be an opportunity to be rehabilitated back into society otherwise prison merely becomes punishment. Rehabilitation is a key part of the system, just one that is overlooked.

The main reason for prison is to protect the public. Of course, for a first offence, a much shorter sentence would be appropriate. I would even consider that people without criminal records who make a split second mistake and murder someone should not have a particularly long sentence as they are not particularly dangerous to society. But repeat offenders have no excuse.
 

12CSVT

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If it's any consolation, Callum Tooley will turn 18 within the next 6 months, so if he repeats the offence after that he can experience life in a big boy's prison instead of some namby-pamby detention / training order.
 

Xenophon PCDGS

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The youth system places a lot of emphasis on rehabilitation and training , which is surely a good thing and forms the second, often forgotten, leg of the criminal justice system.

Is it right to try minors under adult rules? When does it become ok? Should we just move from an age of criminal responsibility straight into one justice system with the same sentences?

I have refrained from making a posting until now but I did note in the report in the first posting of this thread that stated he has already been before the Crown Court for three separate crimes in addition to the youth courts.

It would appear that the defendant has chosen to ignore any such guidance that may have been offered to him as a minor. Are we to assume that his mental capacity was not fully developed enough to understand that there is a difference between right and wrong. We are not just talking about one isolated incident that has occurred.
 

Tomonthetrain

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The sentence was ridiculous. And we wonder why Britain is the laughing stock of the world because we are easy on criminals. In my opinion he should have got 15 years before being considered for release.

Or we Could bring back the death penalty but do it how America does it. Ie 10 years max between sentencing and the execution.

The Criminal Justice system - Justice for Criminals!
 
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ralphchadkirk

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We're all entitled to our own opinion obviously but untill you are faced with it yourself (possibly you have been?) you can't say what you would do to those type of people.
I see the consequences of a lot of violence. Personally, I've seen pistol whipping, domestic abuse, pub fights and knife injuries. That still doesn't mean I want the perpetrators to hang though.

You come home from work, your partner or your son/daughter has been murdered and there is sufficent evidence to convict their killer i'm talking wepon, dna and a witness. What would you like to happen to them?
What would I want? A fair, balanced trial with an appropriate sentence. I wouldn't want to see anyone hang. I don't think eye-for-an-eye is acceptable in the 21st century.
 

yorksrob

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Firstly, I would say that the OP is entirely correct and right to voice his opinion.

Sentencing policy is just that, and all citizens living under the consequences of such policies have the absolute right (and duty) to express opinions on such policies and impress upon law makers to ensure that sentencing policy through the law enforces the law as made by the public. The Judiciary has no professional place above the law of the land (i.e. the polity).

Secondly, with regard to the death penalty discussion, why are we debating ancient history ?

The real battle on the horizon is ensuring that this country retains the right to impose a whole life tariff. If those of us who believe in proportionate justice lose this battle to ensure we have the right to lock someone up for life, then it will mean the loss of any sort credibility for the justice system.
 
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MidnightFlyer

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Had an exam on this this week! Of course youth sentences are going to be less hardline than the adult ones but once he is over 18 and he recommits (if he does) IIRC all of his crimes even as a child are considered when sentencing, so it won't be so nice and fluffy then. The six aims of adult sentencing are rehabilitation, retribution, reparation, incapacitation, denunciation and deterrence. All six have their supporters and opponents, it just depends on how you view society and politics as a whole.

Oh, and for the matter, I'd never in a million years support the death penalty. I'd much rather any, for example, mass murderers suffered for years in prison.
 
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