Virgin East Coast Advance Fares on peak trains

[Razor1967]

I usually take a trip to London at least once a year and catch a 07.xx/08.xx departure from York and previously have bagged fares as low as £15-20 each way by booking on Advance fares.

However even on their extended booking horizons into mid-May all the earlier trains are priced at £53 minimum.

This seems a lot higher than previous years and is it likely they might be reduced closer to the time (unlikely I know !).

It does seem a lot higher than previous years and is this the norm from now on. Oddly you can do York to Edinburgh (same distance approx) for only £17.20.

Seems a shame if this is the case as have grabbed some real bargains in previous years.

 

[ainsworth74]

It's been discussed here previously but VTEC have significantly curtailing (or even just not bothering with) the lowest tiers of APs on but a handful of services. The £15 fare still exists but I imagine that it is only now available on late evening services or mid-afternoon services.

Effective they've got to make their sums add up for the franchises finances (and premium to the DfT) and their doing that by price gouging wherever possible!

 

[Merseysider]

York to Edinburgh has lighter loadings in the morning peak so the lower fares northbound are (theoretically) to stimulate demand, whereas York to London will have a large amount of commuters or businesspeople on expenses willing to pay whatever, so the price southbound is higher to capitalise on this higher demand.

Grand Central are very competitive on price although their infrequency of service hinders the practicality of using them somewhat.

Example: 30/3, £36.50 on the 0821 from York compared to £53.00 on all VTEC services either side. The 1027 > 1230 is just £18.00.

I too can remember grabbing the occasional early morning bargain on VTEC but they've all but dried up now.

 

[westv]

Not that long ago I could grab a Friday evening 17:19 London to Hull ticket for around £27 or so.
Then the minimum went to something like £35
Now the minimum is £52 even six months out.

 

[najaB]

Not that long ago I could grab a Friday evening 17:19 London to Hull ticket for around £27 or so.
Then the minimum went to something like £35
Now the minimum is £52 even six months out.

More people want to travel so no need to try and attract them with cheap tickets.

 

[westv]

More people want to travel so no need to try and attract them with cheap tickets.

I haven't noticed any change in loading on the service over the past four years but maybe I'm wrong

 

[30907]

EC peak time Advance fares have been exceptionally good value for some years,, and I'm surprised they lasted so long.

 

[najaB]

I haven't noticed any change in loading on the service over the past four years but maybe I'm wrong

No, but what has likely happened is people who only took the train because it was cheap have increasingly been replaced by people who take the train in spite of it not being cheap.

 

[westv]

These price hikes can also make a mess of my budgetting.

 

[Joe Paxton]

These price hikes can also make a mess of my budgetting.

One should never assume cheap Advance fares are going to continue to be available, ditto for TOC-only fares. Neither are regulated.

 

[Wallsendmag]

I've got two words for you GNER and NXEC they both had reasonably priced tickets

 

[yorkie]

Yes VTEC have decided that some trains should no longer have cheap fares, no matter how far in advance you book.

If the fare is three times higher they only need one out of three to book and they are not losing any money on it, and if half the eople still book they are in profit (ok that's very simplistic and I think they risk alienating people a d risk losing revenue on the return leg; but you get the idea of how they may be thinking)

Sometimes it can be cheaper to book a £29ish Premier Inn or Travelodge at somewhere in the suburbs of London and travel the night before...

 

[Hadders]

I've got two words for you GNER and NXEC they both had reasonably priced tickets

And both went bust. I think rail fares are too high but that is a result of Government policy who demand huge payments from the East Coast franchisee for the privilege of operating the service.

 

[yorkie]

Yes, absolutely it is the DfT who indirectly decide that Advance fares on this route (among others) should be set at a premium in order that ludicrous promises of unachievable premium payments are made.

 

[rg177]

Indeed, it's impossible for me to do day trips to London anymore unless I get creative with split fares or travel via a totally different route.

When travelling to London with my girlfriend, the cheapest route on one particular Saturday was to travel via Sheffield and Derby using Northern and East Midlands Trains because VTEC had forced the advances from Leeds to London up to £25 each on just about every train and that was well in advance. Was £13.85 each on our chosen route...

 

[fireftrm]

Its just called supply and demand - normal economics model

 

[87electric]

My Peterborough-Newport South Wales rail ticket has escalated so much it has priced me back into my car. Regular advance £55 quid returns have now hit the £100 mark now over the last couple of years.
I guess i'm lucky i have the rail/road choice and am not a commuter.

 

[30907]

The alternative is to take a chance on a late bargain.

For good reasons I had to check on VTEC this afternoon for travel Monday and was very surprised to find cheaper fares than I had already booked on some trains.

Annoying (though the original fare booked 3 weeks ago was perfectly reasonable IMO) but perfectly legitimate to entice the undecided traveller.

 

[philthetube]

Yes, absolutely it is the DfT who indirectly decide that Advance fares on this route (among others) should be set at a premium in order that ludicrous promises of unachievable premium payments are made.

Dft can be blamed for many things however if the premium is unachievable that is down to virgin and their bid.

 

[najaB]

Dft can be blamed for many things however if the premium is unachievable that is down to virgin and their bid.

Yes and no. They have an obligation to reject any unrealistic bids.

 

[Gareth Marston]

Not only are VTEC having to find money for the big premium and their own profit but have been lumbered with the cost of IEP.

DafT have effectively undermined their own policy on franchising with their incredibly needlessly expensive pet train project. This franchise will go ping.

Cross Country is only staggering along because ARriva group are cross subsidising it using the "super profit margin" of 6% that ATW make. I doubt Virgin to Stagecoach will want to do the same for VTEC.

 

[westv]

I do wonder why anybody would want to buy a ticket 6 months in advance for a specific train when the ticket is available for the same price 3 months in advance.
A VTEC marketing gimmick?

 

[Joe Paxton]

I do wonder why anybody would want to buy a ticket 6 months in advance for a specific train when the ticket is available for the same price 3 months in advance.
A VTEC marketing gimmick?

The ticket won't still be available if the quota of Advance tickets at that price level has sold out (unless the train company adds more tickets for sale at lower price levels at a later stage).

I think market research has shown there is a demand for Advance tickets more than 12 weeks ahead of travel.

 

[Deerfold]

I've got two words for you GNER and NXEC they both had reasonably priced tickets

When NXEC were in charge I used to buy tickets for a weekly journey. The cheapest tier available went from £15 to over £40.

 

[Gareth Marston]

The ticket won't still be available if the quota of Advance tickets at that price level has sold out (unless the train company adds more tickets for sale at lower price levels at a later stage).

I think market research has shown there is a demand for Advance tickets more than 12 weeks ahead of travel.

I booked a school party of 33 from a ECML station to another on Saturday for dates in June. All at lowest tier price.

 

[Joe Paxton]

I booked a school party of 33 from a ECML station to another on Saturday for dates in June. All at lowest tier price.

To address westv's point above, I rather imagine you wouldn't have been able to do that circa 12 weeks beforehand, given that the tickets would already have been on sale for 12 weeks, as many of the the lowest tier tickets would have been snapped up by that point.

 

[westv]

Well all I can say is that, on my route, the tickets available now for 3 months time are priced exactly the same as those priced for 6 months time. Where's the incentive there to book for June?

 

[Romilly]

I think that there is some complexity as to what is available 12-24 weeks ahead. I agree that, for some standard-class journeys where the starting price for Advances 24 weeks ahead is higher than the lowest price-tier, there seems to be no difference between the 24-week price and the 12-week price.

But if I look at a random day in the first half of July, it is clear that there is limited availability of standard-class Advances on trains where the 24-week price is in one of the lower price-tiers (if you click on such an Advance, you get the "Only 2/3/6 etc tickets left at this price" message), and that seems even more likely to be the case for 1st class Advances.

So the message would appear to be that sometimes there is a price advantage in booking 24 weeks ahead rather than 12 weeks ahead, although there is always a risk that you lose the chance to take advantage of a VTEC sale.

 

[ricoblade]

Agreed - I've travelled on and off from Retford to London for 15 years and used to be able to get reasonable fares on the early (06:51) train, even in first class, when booking in advance.

Now there don't appear to be any cheap fares on trains that get you into London in a reasonable time.

In fact I was recently offered a training course in London with plenty of time to book it but turned it down as I didn't want to pay the full fare on my dime (different when the client is paying of course!)

 

[DaiGog]

Its just called supply and demand - normal economics model

That's about the size of it, really.

If you are a greengrocer and you have the capacity to sell 'x' number of bananas each day, and you can sell all of your bananas at 50p each, you wouldn't need to sell half of them for 30p.